APAs and IPAs aroma disappearance

[Julien baba]

Hello everyone!
I have been brewing for about a year now and I have managed to get 12 batches under my belt!
I have a huge problem with what i presume is oxidation (but maybe it isn't)
Any hoppy beer like IPAs I try follows the same sad road.
At first, I was using a plastic fermentation bucket and was bottling after fermentation. EVERY TIME I would open my bucket to rack, I would smell a hoppy godly smell... and I would taste it also for science and I would be amazed of how fresh and wow it would taste. Obviously, I invited a lot of friends and family even neighbors for the grand reveal which I already knew was going to be insane but each and every time, every one just felt awkward because I was hyping it up and it ended up tasting nothingness. no hop aroma. no yeasty something just plain and a bit stale. At some point people started to find excuses not to come because it was such a disappointment. My best friend's cat died three times last winter?! (which is not 9 but still difficult to swallow)
Jokes aside,
I did some researching and found out that oxidation was probably the big problem here. So I bought some gear and learned how to ferment in a keg and closed loop transfer to another keg in order to avoid any oxygen in. To be fair, one liquid post was not properly installed on one of the keg so I had to remove it, change the spring and reinstall it in order to complete the closed loop transfer (so there is a big 5 minutes my keg had a hole in it and air could come in.
I was mad at myself because all this effort was in vain because of a stupid mistake of not checking that out prior. Regardless, I put the keg in the fridge to carb up @ 10 psi for the week.
after 5 days of carbing up, i plugged a line on the keg to taste it, expecting a stale empty taste again but surprisingly, it was everything I could wish for. a hoppy dream.
But then, every pint (which was drank in the same day by multiple people) got less and less tasty... to a point where two days after, we could not even taste anything in the beer and I was stuck with the same problem as before.
SO timeline is:
day 0 = closed loop transfer (with blunder on my part) and started carbing the keg in fridge
day 5 = connected a line to the keg to taste (tasted AMAZING)
day 6 = hop aromas rapidly disappear
day10+ = beer is tasteless

What is going on?
can my mistake with the keg post got back at me 7 days later??? (it tasted good day 5 after carb but then degraded)
Is this a thing where you plug a line on the keg and it oxidizes?
How can the taste degrade in less than 24 hours?
I am lost but willing to try anything to taste hoppy flavors. What to do?
Thanks to everyone trying their best to help, and as usual, sorry for the broken english!

 

[Whisky River]

Yes it sounds like a classic oxidation problem. When you closed loop transfer to your serving keg, is that serving keg (and all the transfer lines) fully co2 purged? If so please describe your co2 purging process. Do you purge with fermentation co2 or from a bottle 30 times, push out a full keg of sanitizer etc.

 

[Julien baba]

Yes it sounds like a classic oxidation problem. When you closed loop transfer to your serving keg, is that serving keg (and all the transfer lines) fully co2 purged? If so please describe your co2 purging process. Do you purge with fermentation co2 or from a bottle 30 times, push out a full keg of sanitizer etc.

1 .I sanitized the serving keg and forced the starsan out with co2.
2. I then filled the serving keg with co2 and burped it 3 times (10 seconds PRV opened + let the pressure build up for another minute).
3. I removed my spunding valve from the fermentation keg and plugged it on the serving keg (with the valve shut so no gas would come out yet)
4. I plugged my co2 line from the tank to the fermentation keg and gave 3-4 PSI to the fermentation keg.
5. Plugged a "jumper" line ( liquid line with liquid DC on both ends) to the serving keg then the fermentation keg.
6. opened my spunding valve so it would release extra pressure coming from the fermentation keg.
7. after the transfer was complete, I removed both the spunding valve and the jumper line from the serving keg.
8. I plugged my Co2 line to the serving keg @ 10 PSI for it to carb up in the fridge.

A. My most likely assumption is that prior to all this process, I had a problem with my fermentation keg's liquid post so I had to remove it and change the spring (during the process the keg was opened so of course air got in at this moment) But then why the beer tasted absolutely great 5 days later when i plugged a line to it for tasting AND THEN rapidly lost all of its flavor in the next 24h...?

B. Also, I now realized that in step 4, i did not purged the co2 line from my tank before plugging it on my fermentation keg. I tought it is a co2 line so what the hell... but maybe air got in the line since the tank was shut off and then i pushed all this in my keg?

C. On step 5, I never purged my jumper line before plugging it in... how would I go about that in the best way possible?

D. Finally, when I did plug my beer line to the faucet on day 5 after the transfer I did not purged the beer line before because i assumed pressure would make stuff come out of the keg and not in?

If you have any other comment it would be much appreciated!
Thank you for the reply,

 

[IslandLizard]

1 .I sanitized the serving keg and forced the starsan out with co2.

How much Starsan was in there?
The keg should be filled with Starsan (or water) to the brim (and then some).*
You then push that out with CO2 and never open the serving keg until the beer is all gone and you're cleaning it.

* There are a few ways to get the last few ounces of air out that hides under the dome and lid.

2. I then filled the serving keg with co2 and burped it 3 times (10 seconds PRV opened + let the pressure build up for another minute).

You can't fill a keg that's filled with air with CO2. Gasses mix freely, you'd always end up with a mixture of CO2 and air (containing Oxygen).

 

[micraftbeer]

I've found two things on my hoppy IPAs.

1. Use a LOT of hops. I read this in a brewing magazine, as a comment from a commercial brewer as advice to homebrewers. Copious amounts of hops in my recipe seems to give me hop flavor longer. This comes with headaches from cleaning and special care to not let hops clog your closed transfers. I now push 14-16 oz of hops into my 5-gallon IPA batches (~5 oz dry hops).

2. No matter what you do, the hop flavor is in a rate of decline. The better you keep oxygen out, the slower the rate of decline. But the hops will always be less 2-4 weeks after kegging compared to when you first keg. This is true for commercial breweries, so no reason it wouldn't be true for homebrew. I live in Michigan, and I love Short's Huma Lupa. They graciously put date stamps on their 6-pack boxes. Whenever I go in a grocery store or liquor store, I rotate the box around to check the date. If I can find it 2-3 weeks old, it's amazing. After that, it gets to be just OK.

So now if I'm brewing for a party, I time my hoppy beer to be exactly carbonated and no more. And sometimes, I invite people over to sample before it's fully carbonated. Because when it's perfect, it's perfect. If you love how your beer tastes fresh, maybe plan a tasting party with fresh tapped IPA. Tell your friends it is low on carbonation, and that adds to the charm/mystique. I think as long as you cold crash to get hop debris out of there (can make it to bitter), that could be pretty cool.

 

[doug293cz]

C. On step 5, I never purged my jumper line before plugging it in... how would I go about that in the best way possible?

I use the jumper line when I push the sanitizer out of the keg. A stainless steel carb cap on the exit end QD lets the sanitizer flow thru the jumper, and works great to keep the exit end submerged in the sanitizer collection bucket. When you are done pushing out the sanitizer, let some CO2 bubble out thru the jumper into the collected sanitizer, and then remove the carb cap from the QD while the exit end is still submerged.

Brew on

 

[skysmyzer]

* There are a few ways to get the last few ounces of air out that hides under the dome and lid.

Interested to know what those are.

 

[doug293cz]

Interested to know what those are.

You can shorten the gas "dip tube" to where it doesn't extend below the post, and then tip the keg when filling with sanitizer (thru the liquid post) so that the bottom of the gas post is at the highest point. Put a tube free QD on the gas post, and fill until sanitizer comes out of the QD.

Another way is to fill the keg to overflowing with the lid off, and tubeless QD on both liquid and gas posts. Then carefully place the lid by tilting so that no air bubble gets trapped in the lid, and you don't displace any more liquid volume than what is occupied by the lid.

If you fill with the lid on, PRV open, and standard gas dip tube length, you will trap about 3 fl oz of air in the lid.

Brew on

 

[skysmyzer]

You can shorten the gas "dip tube" to where it doesn't extend below the post, and then tip the keg when filling with sanitizer (thru the liquid post) so that the bottom of the gas post is at the highest point. Put a tube free QD on the gas post, and fill until sanitizer comes out of the QD.

Another way is to fill the keg to overflowing with the lid off, and tubeless QD on both liquid and gas posts. Then carefully place the lid by tilting so that no air bubble gets trapped in the lid, and you don't displace any more liquid volume than what is occupied by the lid.

If you fill with the lid on, PRV open, and standard gas dip tube length, you will trap about 3 fl oz of air in the lid.

Brew on

Makes sense, thanks. I've had similar issues to OP.

 

[Julien baba]

How much Starsan was in there?
The keg should be filled with Starsan (or water) to the brim (and then some).*
You then push that out with CO2 and never open the serving keg until the beer is all gone and you're cleaning it.

* There are a few ways to get the last few ounces of air out that hides under the dome and lid.


You can't fill a keg that's filled with air with CO2. Gasses mix freely, you'd always end up with a mixture of CO2 and air (containing Oxygen).

I put like sarsan/watr solution up to 3/4 of the keg to sanitize. From my understanding, i tought ir was moving up the keg ad Co2 going down so I would be able to purge the air out with the PRV?
So I would be better off filing 101% of that keg with liquid solution ad then force that out with co2 so no air s left inside?

 

[Julien baba]

I've found two things on my hoppy IPAs.

1. Use a LOT of hops. I read this in a brewing magazine, as a comment from a commercial brewer as advice to homebrewers. Copious amounts of hops in my recipe seems to give me hop flavor longer. This comes with headaches from cleaning and special care to not let hops clog your closed transfers. I now push 14-16 oz of hops into my 5-gallon IPA batches (~5 oz dry hops).

2. No matter what you do, the hop flavor is in a rate of decline. The better you keep oxygen out, the slower the rate of decline. But the hops will always be less 2-4 weeks after kegging compared to when you first keg. This is true for commercial breweries, so no reason it wouldn't be true for homebrew. I live in Michigan, and I love Short's Huma Lupa. They graciously put date stamps on their 6-pack boxes. Whenever I go in a grocery store or liquor store, I rotate the box around to check the date. If I can find it 2-3 weeks old, it's amazing. After that, it gets to be just OK.

So now if I'm brewing for a party, I time my hoppy beer to be exactly carbonated and no more. And sometimes, I invite people over to sample before it's fully carbonated. Because when it's perfect, it's perfect. If you love how your beer tastes fresh, maybe plan a tasting party with fresh tapped IPA. Tell your friends it is low on carbonation, and that adds to the charm/mystique. I think as long as you cold crash to get hop debris out of there (can make it to bitter), that could be pretty cool.

Thank you very much, I will do that for sure!
I was a bit scared of adding too much hops but I will try that as well

 

[Julien baba]

I use the jumper line when I push the sanitizer out of the keg. A stainless steel carb cap on the exit end QD lets the sanitizer flow thru the jumper, and works great to keep the exit end submerged in the sanitizer collection bucket. When you are done pushing out the sanitizer, let some CO2 bubble out thru the jumper into the collected sanitizer, and then remove the carb cap from the QD while the exit end is still submerged.

Brew on

Boom, another problem solved

 

[fluketamer]

Use a LOT of hops

THIS!

 

[doug293cz]

I put like sarsan/watr solution up to 3/4 of the keg to sanitize. From my understanding, i tought ir was moving up the keg ad Co2 going down so I would be able to purge the air out with the PRV?
So I would be better off filing 101% of that keg with liquid solution ad then force that out with co2 so no air s left inside?

The CO2 and air will mix pretty rapidly, especially if you are blowing CO2 in through the gas post, which will create turbulence and speed the mixing. The CO2 and air will mix completely in a matter of minutes even with no air/CO2 currents.

If you have a gas tight fermenter, you can purge a keg quite effectively by flowing all of the CO2 created during fermentation thru the keg. You don't even need to fill the keg with sanitizer! - but filling with sanitizer first will get your O2 to ridiculously low levels.

Brew on

 

[Julien baba]

The CO2 and air will mix pretty rapidly, especially if you are blowing CO2 in through the gas post, which will create turbulence and speed the mixing. The CO2 and air will mix completely in a matter of minutes even with no air/CO2 currents.

If you have a gas tight fermenter, you can purge a keg quite effectively by flowing all of the CO2 created during fermentation thru the keg. You don't even need to fill the keg with sanitizer! - but filling with sanitizer first will get your O2 to ridiculously low levels.

Brew on

whoa, so:
1.i fill my serving keg with starsan (the more i possibly can)
2. I buy some connectors so my gas out of the spunding valve is in fact connected to the IN of my serving keg (so it slowly pushes fermentation co2 in the serving keg)
3. I also connect a liquid out to the serving keg which will purge the SS solution in some other recipient?

Regarding step 3, I could use my jumper line with one DC removed so the liquid can freely come out? At the end of fermentation I could just reinstall my liquid DC while submerged in the SS solution for it to be already sanitized/purged?
And I would basically just have to plug the other end of my jumper to the fermentation keg and start the transfer?

 

[doug293cz]

whoa, so:
1.i fill my serving keg with starsan (the more i possibly can)
2. I buy some connectors so my gas out of the spunding valve is in fact connected to the IN of my serving keg (so it slowly pushes fermentation co2 in the serving keg)
3. I also connect a liquid out to the serving keg which will purge the SS solution in some other recipient?

There are a couple of ways to purge a keg with fermentation gas, depending on whether you start with a keg full of sanitizer, or an empty keg:

Starting with a keg full of sanitizer:

Connect the fermenter CO2 exhaust to the gas post of the keg, and connect a tube to the liquid post of the keg, and place the other end of the tube in a bucket to collect the sanitizer being forced out of the keg. Weight down the end of the tube in the sanitizer bucket so that it will stay submerged in the sanitizer and act as an air lock after the keg has emptied. If pressure fermenting the spunding valve should be placed between the fermenter and the keg.

Starting with an empty (but already sanitized) keg:

Connect the fermenter CO2 exhaust to the liquid post of the keg, and connect a blow-off tube or airlock to the gas post of the keg. If using a blow-off tube, the exit end should be submerged in sanitizer to form an airlock. This method of connecting the tubing forces the CO2 to flow upwards in the keg, helping to push air (and O2) up and out thru the gas post. The gas flow is then enough so that complete mixing of the CO2 and residual air is prevented, thus increasing the effectiveness of the purge (over the calculated worst case.) Again, if pressure fermenting the spunding valve should be placed between the fermenter and keg, as pushing lower pressure CO2 into the keg pushes more CO2 volume thru the keg, and the more volume "turn-overs" in the keg, the better the purging.

Regarding step 3, I could use my jumper line with one DC removed so the liquid can freely come out? At the end of fermentation I could just reinstall my liquid DC while submerged in the SS solution for it to be already sanitized/purged?
And I would basically just have to plug the other end of my jumper to the fermentation keg and start the transfer?

Better not to remove the QD from the submerged exit of the jumper line, but rather connect the QD to a stainless steel carb cap to allow the liquid to flow. Then remove the carb cap while the QD is still submerged in the liquid. Review this post.

Brew on

 

[T Murph]

I've read about several ways to purge kegs with Co2 from fermentation. A few have suggested that at max you could only purge 2 kegs. I am confused by such post especially the ones that provide charts with numbers reflecting pressures and volumns etc. I have been using the Co2 from the fermenter blow off for years. I always do at least two Sanke Sixtels at a time connected in tandem and always always have a huge amount of Co2 to spare. I have successfully purged 5 kegs from a single fermentation. Recently I put an empty 5lb Co2 bottle at the end simply to see the results. That experiment captured 40 psi in the bottle post purging 2 kegs. That is a practice I do NOT recommend as it also built up 40 psi in the fermenter. The krausen went nuts completely filling the air space. I had to carefully release pressure until I got it stabilized at 10 psi in the fermenter. But I will continue to purge and charge kegs this way. The practice has served me well over the years and saved considerable Co2 cost.

 

[day_trippr]

Did you happen to have a very sensitive O2 meter to validate the purging dropped the O2 content to very low ppb numbers?

fwiw, I do 10 gallon batches and purge a pair of corny kegs along the way, relying on @doug293cz work that the numbers are solid...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

That experiment captured 40 psi in the bottle post purging 2 kegs. That is a practice I do NOT recommend as it also built up 40 psi in the fermenter.

That 40 PSI isn't pure CO2 since it includes the ambient air that was in the two sixtels and the fermenter headspace.

 

[Boleslaus]

I'm all for minimizing oxygen exposure especially in hoppy styles, but I find it hard to believe that oxidation alone would diminish an IPA from "hoppy dream" to "tasteless" in 2 days! Either OP is being very highly critical of these beers or something else is going on - especially when describing diminishing taste over the course of a few pints in the same day!

 

[jdauria]

So as was mentioned, you really want to fill your keg to the brim with water/sanitizer and push it out with CO2 so you really have a keg with zero air in it. Filling it 2/3 of the way is not cutting it. Don't use StarSan for this, use their low foam version Saniclean. When filling with Starsan and water all those bubbles contain air.

You also need to remember that tasting a beer flat like you did before kegging, it's neer going to taste the same once it's carbonated. Should it lose all it's hoppy goodness, no...but remember young hoppy beers have a hop burn as there are still some hop bits floating in the beer after transferring. Your beer may have tasted super hoppy at the start because of the hop burn, which then faded with time. I usually let my IPAs sit in the keg untouched for two weeks to let the hop burn fade and for it to fully carb before tasting.

I know some people who make hoppy beers swear by dosing the keg with SMB (sodium metabisulfate) or ascorbic acid to scrub any oxygen left in keg. Me, I just use BrewTan B in mash/boil...it's sold commerically as a shelf stabalizer so that beer stays fresh longer. I use it mainly for clarity in non-hazy beers though, but it definitely is good to have in hoppy beers too.

 

[doug293cz]

I have successfully purged 5 kegs from a single fermentation.

What volume of beer was fermented to purge 5 kegs, and what was the fermenter total internal volume (or alternately, headspace volume)? What was the OG and FG of the beer? How did you verify that the kegs were adequately purged of O2? Did you let the pressure free rise from the beginning of fermentation, or did you start raising the pressure after some degree of fermentation had already taken place? If you delayed raising the pressure, what was the SG when you started raising the pressure? Did you purge empty (containing only air) kegs, or were the kegs liquid filled prior to purging?

All of the above will affect the results of fermentation purging.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

When filling with Starsan and water all those bubbles contain air.

StarSan bubbles will collapse in a matter of hours, but the CO2 purging takes place over a matter of days, so the bubbles are a non-issue. Also, before the bubbles have collapsed, O2 (and N2) will diffuse out of the bubbles as the partial pressure of O2 (& N2) in the kegs drops as CO2 dilutes and displaces air in the keg. I do not recommend avoiding StarSan (or other foaming sanitizer) when liquid purging.

Brew on

 

[Dgallo]

You’ve gotten some really good advice here so I won’t go into too much except for your steps 2 and 5.

2) liquid purge your keg and use fermentation gas to purge it. There will be plenty of co2 created during fermentation to push out all the sanitizer and still replace the volume of the keg a few times to get your o2 in the keg to the lowest amount possible.

5). To purge my transfer lines I just use an empty “waste” keg. Before going from my fv to my serving keg, run the 10 or so ounces out to the waste keg to push out all the air and any of the beer that came in contact with it. Then I connect to my purged serving keg. You lose a little less then a pint but saves a lot of beer in the long run.

This is probably something others have already shared so if it seems redundant, I apologize

 

[T Murph]

@mac_1103 the two sixtels had been purged for about an hour before the blow off line were connected to the 5lb Co2 bottle. My practice may not meet scientific data but it works. I haven't suffered an issue purging kegs and I've been doing it this way for four years now.

 

[mac_1103]

two sixtels had been purged for about an hour before the blow off line were connected to the 5lb Co2 bottle. My practice may not meet scientific data but it works.

I'd say the issue is more that your practice doesn't provide scientific data than whether it meets some standard. You're getting into territory where you need to know things like flow rates to be able to predict how much residual O2 you're going to have in this scenario, and that's well beyond my present day math skills. But depending on OG and volume of wort, it's certainly plausible that there would be more CO2 generated than is needed to purge the volume of the fermenter headspace and two sixtels. But without knowing exactly when the kegs have been fully purged it's impossible to know when you could start capturing excess CO2 that's pure. My guess is that an hour isn't nearly enough.

 

[T Murph]

@doug293cz I'll try to answer your question here. It was a 5 gallon batch used to purge the kegs. I never purge more than two kegs at a time. I hook the lines up during active fermentation and walk away for hours, sometimes I let it go over night. When additional empty kegs are cleaned and ready to be purged, I swap them out and keep them going. The numbers regarding ppm of o2, OG, SG and such, I don't give that any consideration. I've been home brewing over 33 years and through trial and error I have figured out what works for me. I won't be trying to capture off gas in a bottle anymore as upon discovering 40 psi had built up in a plastic Fermzilla, I freaked out. That could have been a disaster.

Years ago when I first played around with capturing Co2, I ran it through a corny keg with sanitizer. But I concluded that step to be useless in my practice.

 

[doug293cz]

@doug293cz I'll try to answer your question here. It was a 5 gallon batch used to purge the kegs. I never purge more than two kegs at a time. I hook the lines up during active fermentation and walk away for hours, sometimes I let it go over night. When additional empty kegs are cleaned and ready to be purged, I swap them out and keep them going. The numbers regarding ppm of o2, OG, SG and such, I don't give that any consideration. I've been home brewing over 33 years and through trial and error I have figured out what works for me. I won't be trying to capture off gas in a bottle anymore as upon discovering 40 psi had built up in a plastic Fermzilla, I freaked out. That could have been a disaster.

Years ago when I first played around with capturing Co2, I ran it through a corny keg with sanitizer. But I concluded that step to be useless in my practice.

If you are happy with your results, then there is no reason for you to change what you are doing. But, unless I am misunderstanding your process, you are not minimizing residual O2 in your kegs to the extent that you could be. And, with your process, there is no way to know how much residual O2 you have, without resorting to a very sensitive, and very expensive, O2 meter.

As an aside, I have never understood why people think they need to purge more keg volume (with a single fermentation) than the volume of beer that is being produced by the fermentation.

Brew on

 

[T Murph]

@mac_1103 that was only this last brew that I attempted to capture the excess into a bottle. I won't be trying that again. And they most likely went much longer than an hour as I hook lines up and get on to other task. But I am now concerned as I used that Co2/o2 to carbonate two fresh kegs of beer.

It's only a hobby to me so I sometimes perform task to learn the outcome.

 

[mac_1103]

I have never understood why people think they need to purge more keg volume (with a single fermentation) than the volume of beer that is being produced by the fermentation.

I sometimes purge two five gallon kegs from one five gallon ferment - one for dry hopping and one for serving - but only if the beer I'm fermenting is "big" enough to give me confidence that I can get away with it based on your analysis.

 

[mac_1103]

was only this last brew that I attempted to capture the excess into a bottle. I won't be trying that again

If the gas goes from the second keg to a blow off jar then you're quite likely getting adequate purging. Unless it's a very low ABV beer.

 

[T Murph]

@doug293cz and now I'm very concerned about my last two brews. I'm not too concerned about a slight amount of o2 being in with the Co2 in the purged keg as while filling the kegs with beer it also pushes out o2. From my understanding Co2 is considerably heavier than o2. Therefore any remaining o2 shoud be pushed out during the fill. But, and it's a big but, I used the 40 psi of Co2 that I captured in the Co2 bottle to carbonate a pale ale and a lager. I'm reluctant to sample those in fear that I screwed them up. And it's bad enough to screw up a pale ale but I'm really gonna be disappointed if the lager is affected. And it's a mild lawn mower beer that took over a month to ferment out and cold crash. I guess I need to taste them.

Oh, and fortunately I always use a blow off at the tail end of all processes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[doug293cz]

If the gas goes from the second keg to a blow off jar then you're quite likely getting adequate purging. Unless it's a very low ABV beer.

I don't believe that is an adequate criteria, even if starting with liquid filled kegs. At the start of fermentation, the fermenter headspace is ~100% air. If you just get to the point where all of the liquid has been pushed out of all the attached kegs, then all of the air that was in the fermenter headspace is still in the kegs plus any residual in the fermenter headspace.

Brew on

 

[T Murph]

I don't believe that is an adequate criteria, even if starting with liquid filled kegs. At the start of fermentation, the fermenter headspace is ~100% air. If you just get to the point where all of the liquid has been pushed out of all the attached kegs, then all of the air that was in the fermenter headspace is still in the kegs plus any residual in the fermenter headspace.

Brew on

I forgot to mention, I always wait until day 2 of fermentation to purge off of it. This perticular batch was a pale ale with a OG of 1.050 that finished at 1.010.

 

[doug293cz]

@doug293cz and now I'm very concerned about my last two brews. I'm not too concerned about a slight amount of o2 being in with the Co2 in the purged keg as while filling the kegs with beer it also pushes out o2. From my understanding Co2 is considerably heavier than o2. Therefore any remaining o2 shoud be pushed out during the fill. But, and it's a big but, I used the 40 psi of Co2 that I captured in the Co2 bottle to carbonate a pale ale and a lager. I'm reluctant to sample those in fear that I screwed them up. And it's bad enough to screw up a pale ale but I'm really gonna be disappointed if the lager is affected. And it's a mild lawn mower beer that took over a month to ferment out and cold crash. I guess I need to taste them.

Oh, and fortunately I always use a blow off at the tail end of all processes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

At this point, the beers will be what they will be. Might be ok, or might not. If they are drinkable, I would consume them quickly, as shelf life is likely to be limited. And, never dump before tasting.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

I forgot to mention, I always wait until day 2 of fermentation to purge off of it. This perticular batch was a pale ale with a OG of 1.050 that finished at 1.010.

Yeah, that will significantly reduce the amount of residual O2 than might be in the gas mix purging the kegs.

Brew on

 

[T Murph]

I have a friend who has a craft brewery. We were talking about capturing Co2 off his fermenters, and he is looking into the equipment necessary to do just that. Once he gets it up and running, I'll get some pictures and post a report on here.

 

[T Murph]

@mac_1103 and @doug293cz after our earlier discussion I was very concerned about the two beers that I carbonated using that Co2 that I captured in a bottle off fermentation. I tasted them and they are fine. I still won't be doing that again. But fortunately they are fine, and that lawn mower lager, I call it Julio Uno Lago, is delicious on a hot southern day like today.

 

[mac_1103]

You know something else that really helps prevent oxidation? Drinking it fast.

 

[Redhouse Brewing]

1 .I sanitized the serving keg and forced the starsan out with co2.
2. I then filled the serving keg with co2 and burped it 3 times (10 seconds PRV opened + let the pressure build up for another minute).
3. I removed my spunding valve from the fermentation keg and plugged it on the serving keg (with the valve shut so no gas would come out yet)
4. I plugged my co2 line from the tank to the fermentation keg and gave 3-4 PSI to the fermentation keg.
5. Plugged a "jumper" line ( liquid line with liquid DC on both ends) to the serving keg then the fermentation keg.
6. opened my spunding valve so it would release extra pressure coming from the fermentation keg.
7. after the transfer was complete, I removed both the spunding valve and the jumper line from the serving keg.
8. I plugged my Co2 line to the serving keg @ 10 PSI for it to carb up in the fridge.

A. My most likely assumption is that prior to all this process, I had a problem with my fermentation keg's liquid post so I had to remove it and change the spring (during the process the keg was opened so of course air got in at this moment) But then why the beer tasted absolutely great 5 days later when i plugged a line to it for tasting AND THEN rapidly lost all of its flavor in the next 24h...?

B. Also, I now realized that in step 4, i did not purged the co2 line from my tank before plugging it on my fermentation keg. I tought it is a co2 line so what the hell... but maybe air got in the line since the tank was shut off and then i pushed all this in my keg?

C. On step 5, I never purged my jumper line before plugging it in... how would I go about that in the best way possible?

D. Finally, when I did plug my beer line to the faucet on day 5 after the transfer I did not purged the beer line before because i assumed pressure would make stuff come out of the keg and not in?

If you have any other comment it would be much appreciated!
Thank you for the reply,

Along with closed transfer, my biggest improvement (equipment wise) was switching to eva barrier lines. Also, do you purge the transfer lines and the dip tube before transfer? If not, you should also be doing that.