Anyone who makes Lyle & Tates golden syrup clone?

[davidabcd]

I could buy the syrup but too expensive. I'm aware that sugar can invert in the boil.
I just made four pounds for two batches of an Old English Ale. It's a little light in color but very tasty.
I'm having trouble with the first step of getting a darkish color before it "cracks." The second step dissolves this but, again, still too light.
Anyone who has had consistent luck making golden syrup and can give advice? I would appreciate it.

 

[Robert65]

I could buy the syrup but too expensive. I'm aware that sugar can invert in the boil.
I just made four pounds for two batches of an Old English Ale. It's a little light in color but very tasty.
I'm having trouble with the first step of getting a darkish color before it "cracks." The second step dissolves this but, again, still too light.
Anyone who has had consistent luck making golden syrup and can give advice? I would appreciate it.

I don't make anything as light as Golden syrup, but I do make Brewers Invert syrups, Nos. 1-4, the products that are used in British brewing. You need to never, ever go above 236°-240°F. Reach that temperature and hold it. Hold about 30 minutes for No. 1, which if you have used the proper raw material (raw cane sugar, not refined sugar,) will have an SRM of ~16. For no. 2 (SRM 30-35) hold 90-120 minutes. These first two are appropriate for pale ales. For no. 3 (SRM 60-70) hold temperature for 2.5-3.5 hours. This is used in mild and brown ales. For porter and stout you want no. 4 (SRM 275-325) so hold for up to 5 hours. If you steadily maintain proper temperature, you will get the right color and flavor and the syrup will remain liquid and easy to pour when just slightly warm. Sealed in Mason jars it will keep indefinitely at room temperature. Do not dilute or it will spoil quickly. To hold temperatures it is easiest to calibrate your oven (never trust its thermostat) so that the temperature will swing centered on 236°-240°F. Once you have brought the syrup just to that temperature on the stovetop, cover the pot tightly and set it in the oven. The thermal mass of the syrup and pot will hold the temperature steady while the oven does fluctuate some.

(If you really want something like golden syrup for your pancakes or whatever, you could just use refined sugar, bring it to 236-240 to partially invert, and you're done.)

 

[davidabcd]

@Robert65
Now that's what I'm talking about! Thank you!
I think my mistake was using Dominoes table sugar. For six cups total sugar, I used 1/2t cream of tartar and a little over 2.5 cups water. The recipe I followed said to "brown" 1 C sugar and 3 tbs water. I must have overheated it then or used the refined sugar because it became solid.
As I said, I'm trying for Lyle and Tate's golden syrup.
What about using turbinado (Sugar in the Raw)?
Can I add all the water, acid and sugar at once and just keep the temps you recommended?
Thanks again.

 

[balrog]

I used sugar in the raw
Patience was the key, both in raising temp and holding. The oven method looks appealing.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/invert-syrups-making-simple-sugars-complex-beers/

 

[Robert65]

@Robert65
Now that's what I'm talking about! Thank you!
I think my mistake was using Dominoes table sugar. For six cups total sugar, I used 1/2t cream of tartar and a little over 2.5 cups water. The recipe I followed said to "brown" 1 C sugar and 3 tbs water. I must have overheated it then or used the refined sugar because it became solid.
As I said, I'm trying for Lyle and Tate's golden syrup.
What about using turbinado (Sugar in the Raw)?
Can I add all the water, acid and sugar at once and just keep the temps you recommended?
Thanks again.

I use sugar in the raw/turbinado/Demerara whatever it may be called for the raw ingredient. Add the sugar, water, and acid. Stir so the sugar is completely dissolved by the time it comes to a boil, then stop stirring and heep keep heating till you hit 236°-240°F (hot enough to invert but below the ball and crack stages, as candy makers say) and hold it. I've found that while you can start with varying amounts of water, more rather than less makes it easier to dissolve and just takes a little longer to reach the boil. Adding a little (exact amount doesn't matter) bit of dextrose or plain unflavored corn syrup to the mix also prevents crystallization before it inverts, so you don't have to worry so much about keeping it from the sides of the pot as you stir. Oh, I also don't trust those glass candy/fry thermometers any more. I use a digital thermometer and it's harder to get the temperature wrong. Once you have the process, you can experiment to get just the color and flavor you want.

 

[Robert65]

I used sugar in the raw
Patience was the key, both in raising temp and holding. The oven method looks appealing.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/invert-syrups-making-simple-sugars-complex-beers/

The method given in that article is not correct. I don't think he really researched or fully understood the process for making these particular products. It will lead to inconsistent results, different flavors, and as the hard sugar produced has to be re-diluted (hot, which can be dangerous) it will not keep but must be used promptly. The color and flavor of brewers invert sugar needs to be developed by controlling time, not raising temperature.

 

[ba-brewer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/made-simple-invert-sugars-jeff-alworths-method.628857/

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Lyles Golden syrup uses waste product from sugar production, so will be difficult to make at home. You'll probably get closer by making simple invert syrup from raw sugar (with a very short boil) and mixing in some food grade molasses. Having said that, proper invert syrups as described above are much better in brewing than golden syrup (IMO and, from what I can tell, the opinion of most others) and are easy to make. I use the recipes from here
http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert/comment-page-1
which is pretty much as already described.

 

[balrog]

The method given in that article is not correct. I don't think he really researched or fully understood the process for making these particular products. It will lead to inconsistent results, different flavors, and as the hard sugar produced has to be re-diluted (hot, which can be dangerous) it will not keep but must be used promptly. The color and flavor of brewers invert sugar needs to be developed by controlling time, not raising temperature.

Ok. Good to know.

 

[IslandLizard]

You need to never, ever go above 236°-340°F.

Those are great instructions, but I think you meant to keep it at 236°-240°F.

 

[Robert65]

Those are great instructions, but I think you meant to keep it at 236°-240°F.

Absolutely! Thanks. Fixed.

 

[Velnerj]

I've made golden syrup for a Bombardier clone. The golden syrup was very easy to make and came out great. All you need is table sugar, water and a lemon.

I followed instructions from this video.



Good luck!

 

[davidabcd]

Thanks for the info everyone. I copy and pasted quite a bit of this to my beer folder. The only question now is whether I toss the Budweiser-colored sugar I made or not. It will work since it is inverted but it's not as good as what I've seen here.
Edit: I'm pretty excited to get it right and since I'm not brewing the two batches of Gale's Prize Old Ale clone until next week, I will probably redo it.

 

[davidabcd]

I've made golden syrup for a Bombardier clone. The golden syrup was very easy to make and came out great. All you need is table sugar, water and a lemon.

I followed instructions from this video.



Good luck!

I tried pretty much what was in that video and my sugar stayed white and crystallized. On the first step I heated it too high, I guess?

 

[Beer666]

I've made golden syrup for a Bombardier clone. The golden syrup was very easy to make and came out great. All you need is table sugar, water and a lemon.

I followed instructions from this video.



Good luck!

I have made this many times. Comes out just the same as the stuff you buy and its really easy.

 

[Beer666]

I tried pretty much what was in that video and my sugar stayed white and crystallized. On the first step I heated it too high, I guess?

I had that problem when i tried to make caramel. If it got too hot it burned and if not hot enough it stayed in a crystalline state. The golden syrup though is easy as you dissolve the sugar first in water. Not sure exactly why it went wrong but its worth trying again.

 

[davidabcd]

Not sure exactly why it went wrong but its worth trying again.

It's got to be that I overheated it (three times so far). I should have been using a thermometer but the prior information I had for making golden syrup didn't mention using one. I was doing 1 C white sugar and 3 1/3 tbs of water, no stirring and it boiled down and turned into an off-white crust.
There's a video above in this thread that I watched and the white sugar and water magically turns a gorgeous brown which is definitely not what happened with mine.

 

[Beer666]

It's got to be that I overheated it (three times so far). I should have been using a thermometer but the prior information I had for making golden syrup didn't mention using one. I was doing 1 C white sugar and 3 1/3 tbs of water, no stirring and it boiled down and turned into an off-white crust.
There's a video above in this thread that I watched and the white sugar and water magically turns a gorgeous brown which is definitely not what happened with mine.

You do not need a thermometer for golden syrup but i do use one for candi sugar. The only thing to watch is not to boil it too heavily or else it reduces too much and once cooled will form a solid lump in the jar.

 

[balrog]

I went back through my notes. I'd read the unholy mess stuff and others, copying everything to the beer folder doc as usual, but I did not use the article I thought, rather the one @ba-brewer linked above

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/made-simple-invert-sugars-jeff-alworths-method.628857/

 

[Velnerj]

I tried pretty much what was in that video and my sugar stayed white and crystallized. On the first step I heated it too high, I guess?

I think a big trick that nobody talks about is not stirring. When the sugar is caramelizing stirring it will disrupt the structure. Make sure the sugar is dissolved - you can stir then-then watch it caramelize. Once you add the boiling water (must be boiling!) you can stir.

 

[davidabcd]

I think a big trick that nobody talks about is not stirring. When the sugar is caramelizing stirring it will disrupt the structure. Make sure the sugar is dissolved - you can stir then-then watch it caramelize. Once you add the boiling water (must be boiling!) you can stir.

Thanks. I did the no-stir but for the two times you mentioned. Would you say that the sugar hardened without ever browning was due to too high of a temperature? As I said above, I used a cup of sugar and about 3 tbs of water, stirred just to combine and then I watched it bubble and then it got hard.

I've seen some good advice so far and am going to remake.

 

[Velnerj]

Thanks. I did the no-stir but for the two times you mentioned. Would you say that the sugar hardened without ever browning was due to too high of a temperature? As I said above, I used a cup of sugar and about 3 tbs of water, stirred just to combine and then I watched it bubble and then it got hard.

I've seen some good advice so far and am going to remake.

Try the shaken (more like swirl) but not stirred method shown here. It even talks about avoiding the crystallization phase you ran into.