Anyone sucessfully done a JK Scrumpys clone?

[CvilleKevin]

I did a couple more wild yeast batches last season that came out in the JKS style. I cold crashed these and keg carbed. I've also had some interesting results with bottle carbonation using nitrogen reduction and Wy3333. A bit drier than JKS but still very good and much more reliable than a natural yeast fermentation. I'd be interested to hear what Bruce says

 

[minsco1]

What was your method of reducing the nitrogen? Keeving? If so, did you use sulfites? But if you used Wy3333 for the batches that you reduced the nitrogen in, I suppose that means you probably didn't keeve, or at least didn't add the commercial yeast until after racking the cider out from underneath the brown cap. Could you elaborate, please?

I'm most likely not going to be keeving this season, but instead just relying on the low nitrogen organic apples - if I can find a reliable supply of the apple varieties I'm looking for in NW Missouri.

 

[CvilleKevin]

I just used low nitrogen organic apples, no keeving or sulfites and pitched the yeast right after the pressing. The Wy3333 seems to use a lot of nitrogen (as do most of the wheat yeasts), but the yeast doesnt completely drop out on the crash (at least with the juice I used). For the last batch I added 1.5lbs of orange blossom honey and crashed at 1.016. After the crash, I let it sit about 2 weeks in the secondary, where it dropped to 1.012. Then I bottled a dozen bottles at the end of April and kegged the rest. The bottles took about 3 months to carb up. So far no bottle bombs even though they have been sitting in my basement with no AC and this is the hottest summer on record. I havent measured one, but it tastes like they dropped about 2 points in the bottle. Could use just a little more carb. The first three batches of 3333 that I did were gallon batches and I didnt wait as long after the crash to bottle - just a couple days. These came out very well carbed and no bottle bombs although I drank them all within a few months so hard to say for sure how long they would have kept. I was a little more conservative on the carb for this last batch, because I wanted to see if they could last through the summer. So far, so good.

 

[iconoclasthero]

As far as stopping it goes, cold crashing will do the trick. But then you have to either drink it still or force carbonate it in a keg. I’d go with the keg. Once you start kegging you wont go back.

I think the JK Scrumpys is meant to be drunk still...from their website:

I have had people question the “head” on our cider, especially those who are not familiar with this traditional drink. Well... there is no head, its CIDER not beer!

Anyway, I was trying to figure out how to sweat the apples. Basically, I can just leave them on a tarp in the yard? We had 90 degree days here last week (Philly area) and I'm guessing that isn't going to work. Any suggestions? I was hoping to get started on a trial batch (it has been a long time since I brewed anything) this week, but it looks like I need to let them sweat.

 

[CvilleKevin]

Every JKS I've had has been carbed. My understanding is that they use a variation of nutrient reduction to get it to stop before the sugar runs out.

Usually, apples are sweated in cold storage. I'm not sure this is feasible on a small scale unless you have an old root cellar or something like that. You need a consistently cool place to do this. You can also accomplish something similar by freezing some of the water out of the juice before you ferment it. You dont need to sweat the apples to get a close JKS clone. Sweating is good for naturally bumping the alcohol level on a sweet cider, but it terms of impact on taste, using a wheat yeast and a bit of brown sugar is pretty close for a lot less work.

 

[shanecb]

I absolutely love JK Scrumpys. I would be ecstatic if someone came up with a good clone recipe.

 

[CvilleKevin]

Fresh juice, wheat yeast eg WLP380 and a bit of brown sugar, ferment cool and crash or bottle pasteurize at 1.015 to 1.020 will get you pretty close.

 

[MindYourHead]

With regards to Nitrogen levels in J. K. Scrumpy fruit, they let's pigs graze in their orchard to eat fallen fruit before pests have a chance to infest and reproduce. The decaying process of the pig excrement will significantly reduce N levels in the soil.

 

[ashyg]

Fresh juice, wheat yeast eg WLP380 and a bit of brown sugar, ferment cool and crash or bottle pasteurize at 1.015 to 1.020 will get you pretty close.

I assume bottle carb for a few days, then bottle pasteurize? How do you know when it's properly carb'd? Won't the CO2 not be dissolved in the cider immediately, meaning you'll get gushers in the first few days?

 

[CvilleKevin]

I assume bottle carb for a few days, then bottle pasteurize?

right

How do you know when it's properly carb'd?

drink one a day or else use a plastic test bottle and pasteurize when firm.

 

[theciderman]

If you want something like JKs try Griffin Cider Works - Griffin Original. It's clear and uses sulfites but is similar in flavor and body. Available in Ohio only at the moment though

 

[theciderman]

If you want something like JKs try Griffin Cider Works - Griffin Original. It's clear and uses sulfites but is similar in flavor and body. Available in Ohio only at the moment though

 

[AWKBrewing13]

i wanted to post to this thread and open up something for discussion.

I emailed the contact on the JK website and was told they do you wild yeast.

Two questions:

1. Rather than Wheat yeast could the White Labs English Cider yeast work well?
2. And could you let unpastuerized sweet cider ferment, then cultivated the yeast cake on the bottom to have a supply of wild yeast?

I really want to make good tasting cider WITHOUT SULPHITES IN IT.

 

[MindYourHead]

You can successfully make good cider without sulfites by following a few simple procedures. First you must use clean, sound fruit. Leave the dirt and the rot out. Second, sterility of anything that comes in contact with the cider is essential after the initial stages of fermentation. Third, once fermentation is close to finishing, exclusion of oxygen is crucial.

The high pH of apple juice will ward off most problem bugs and fortunately most apples grown in the US are high in acid compared to what is available in the UK or France, although pH and acid levels are not necessarily linked. A pH of equal to or greater than 3.5 is desirable. If less, add a bit of malic acid. Most larger US commercial ciders contain added malic acid - the acid that we connote to apples. In the traditional heart of cider making in the UK, less is more with regards to acid. I am convinced that our experience with what we call sweet cider (which unfortunately for them the UK knows nothing of) is why we prefer higher level of acid in our finished cider.

If you rely on naturally occurring yeast as I do, you may experience mold growth on the surface of the juice before fermentation kicks off. In that case, simply remove what you can see and the fermentation should take care of the rest. Cider is most prone to infection after the fermentation is complete, so exposing finished cider with no SO2 to air is asking for trouble, so fermenting to dryness and back sweetening at bottling is risky business. My suggestion is to bottle at whatever sweetness level you prefer +.005 for carbonation. Alternatively, you could ferment to dryness and back-sweeten, but the risk of film mold infection is much greater. The good thing is that surface yeast is usually self limiting in the bottle because it needs O2 to survive. either way, monitor CO2 levels by opening a bottle every couple of days. Once the carbibation is right, either refrigerate or pasteurize to preserve sweetness levels and protect from exploding bottles. These are the only options open to you if you want anything other than dry cider which is a rare acquired taste in this country. That is unless you sweeten artificially (Yuk). Obviously there will be sediment on the bottom of the bottle, but the in bottle fermentation and CO2 is what is protecting the cider from contamination. Also, w/o SO2, oxidation is a bigger issue, so shelf life will be reduced.