Anyone stop BIAB and return to more traditional Mash and Sparge techniques?

[TANSTAAFB]

I find that I have to adjust my mill gap. It won't catch at all at .020 so I have to run it through at .035 or so, tighten to .020, and run through again. Kind of a PITA

 

[Burndog]

I find that I have to adjust my mill gap. It won't catch at all at .020 so I have to run it through at .035 or so, tighten to .020, and run through again. Kind of a PITA

Gotta wonder how much difference there is with the readjustment over simply running through twice... I agree changing the offset seems a pain.

 

[sillbeer]

I started off with extract then stepped up to an 18 gallon kettle and two Rubbermaid coolers. I changed over to electric, picked up a custom false bottom then started BIAB. After a short time I went back to a 3 vessel system and enjoy it more. I liked the streamlined process of BIAB but I enjoy doing each brew step with 3 kettles. I've made good beers both ways and definitely can't knock either process.

 

[Slydan]

Literally just did my first all grain BIAB batch 3 days ago assuming 70%. I had a really good crush and mashed at 154 for 1 hour. I batch sparged because I'm using a 5 gallon kettle for a 3 gallon batch and the 7 pounds of grain was pushing it at 4.5 gallons.

So I actually ended up with more into the fermenter because my boil off was set too high and my grain abortion was too high as well. I had 1.5g boil off set and 0.5 grain absorption. 0.25 calculated for trub lose caltulated. 3.00 gallons was supposed to go for 2.75 total beer. I ended up somewhere between 3.75 and 4 gallons into primary.

With all those numbers taken into account my projected efficiency at this time is 83%. Unless fermentation stalls I would bet money it would end up at 80% or higher with my projected FG, my numbers are essentially dead on considering the higher volume, and this was my first BIAB. The OG of the batch was 10.059. Some things I may have done differently was I stirred the mash twice and checked the temperature during the 60 minutes because I wasn't sure what kind of temperature drop I would get. I ended up adding a little 159 degree water to bring it up from 150 to 154 during the last 30 minutes. I had batch sparged with very warm water and squeezed the **** out of the bag in the sparge.

The reason I added the water was because I spent so much time stirring and looking for dough balls and breaking them up. I followed all the tips on this forum that most people have associated with a drop in efficiency and it paid off. As I understand it the biggest causes for low efficiency in BIAB is:

1. Bad Crush
2. Thick mash
3. Dough balls

I also think that the small volume sparge and squeezing the bag probably added at least 5%. There was a ton of VERY sweet wort on those grains. But thats just a guess. It was my first shot, and I did a lot of efficiency research before I started. I would have been very happy with 70% considering a lot of people get between 60 and 70 on the post boil.

I am totally new to this, but my common sense makes me things its a crush and dough issue. When I did the above recipe the dough balls were bad... and I added roughly a pound at a time to the mash, I spent like 15 minutes working them all out, and I stirred the mash twice. I believe the stirring helped too... but, what do I know? I'm just incredibly surprised with my numbers. should be 5.9 or 6.0 abv after fermentation.

 

[Kassad]

For small batch (1 gallon) BIAB, has anyone used a steel watering can for the sparge? I'd like to kow how it went.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00173ELYK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

So you have your un-sparged wort, then in another kettle heat your sparge water, then add it to the watering can.

Place the drained grain bag in a strainer or colander above the mash kettle. Sprinkle the heated sparge water over the surface of the grain using the watering can, rinsing them evenly and slowly.

 

[Miraculix]

Went up from 55% to 76%, both using store crushed malts. The key was using the whole volume of water I want to have afterwards in the fermenter during mashing and than at the end, after all the easy to get Wort has been extracted, Sparge with a bit of cold water to flush the rest Wort out of the grains and to cool the bag. Then at the end give the bag a good squeeze and getting above 70% should be done in no time.

 

[TorMag]

Literally just did my first all grain BIAB batch 3 days ago assuming 70%. I had a really good crush and mashed at 154 for 1 hour. I batch sparged because I'm using a 5 gallon kettle for a 3 gallon batch and the 7 pounds of grain was pushing it at 4.5 gallons.

So I actually ended up with more into the fermenter because my boil off was set too high and my grain abortion was too high as well. I had 1.5g boil off set and 0.5 grain absorption. 0.25 calculated for trub lose caltulated. 3.00 gallons was supposed to go for 2.75 total beer. I ended up somewhere between 3.75 and 4 gallons into primary.

With all those numbers taken into account my projected efficiency at this time is 83%. Unless fermentation stalls I would bet money it would end up at 80% or higher with my projected FG, my numbers are essentially dead on considering the higher volume, and this was my first BIAB. The OG of the batch was 10.059. Some things I may have done differently was I stirred the mash twice and checked the temperature during the 60 minutes because I wasn't sure what kind of temperature drop I would get. I ended up adding a little 159 degree water to bring it up from 150 to 154 during the last 30 minutes. I had batch sparged with very warm water and squeezed the **** out of the bag in the sparge.

The reason I added the water was because I spent so much time stirring and looking for dough balls and breaking them up. I followed all the tips on this forum that most people have associated with a drop in efficiency and it paid off. As I understand it the biggest causes for low efficiency in BIAB is:

1. Bad Crush
2. Thick mash
3. Dough balls

I also think that the small volume sparge and squeezing the bag probably added at least 5%. There was a ton of VERY sweet wort on those grains. But thats just a guess. It was my first shot, and I did a lot of efficiency research before I started. I would have been very happy with 70% considering a lot of people get between 60 and 70 on the post boil.

I am totally new to this, but my common sense makes me things its a crush and dough issue. When I did the above recipe the dough balls were bad... and I added roughly a pound at a time to the mash, I spent like 15 minutes working them all out, and I stirred the mash twice. I believe the stirring helped too... but, what do I know? I'm just incredibly surprised with my numbers. should be 5.9 or 6.0 abv after fermentation.

This French Whip on Amazon works fantastic for breaking up dough balls, very happy with it. Fairly Cheap too, at $13.

http://amzn.to/2gXZUv1

 

[kevin58]

The reason I ask is that I like brewing posted recipes. Pliny Clone 4.0 is one of my favorites so far.

But when using BIAB we lose efficiency so then what? Ramp up the qty of grains so final sugars/OG is inline with the original recipe?

That seems to be a guessing game and not conducive to the precise ingredients some of these recipes demand.

Granted I'm late to this conversation and too lazy to read all the posts... but if you use Beersmith all you have to do is click the adjust OG button and scale the recipe to whatever OG you want. No guessing involved.

 

[kevin58]

nevermind.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Granted I'm late to this conversation and too lazy to read all the posts... but if you use Beersmith all you have to do is click the adjust OG button and scale the recipe to whatever OG you want. No guessing involved.

I'm sure you realized it, hence the nevermind but for those reading. No, beersmith does not have a efficiency prediction model. You MUST tell beersmith what efficiency you anticipate in order to get an OG, it will not adjust your efficiency based on the amount of grains being used.

 

[doug293cz]

I'm sure you realized it, hence the nevermind but for those reading. No, beersmith does not have a efficiency prediction model. You MUST tell beersmith what efficiency you anticipate in order to get an OG, it will not adjust your efficiency based on the amount of grains being used.

Come on Mark, drop the other shoe. Your calculator does have a lauter efficiency model that adjusts efficiency based on grain bill size. See the link in his sig.

Brew on

 

[Kassad]

I am getting ready to do my first 1 gallon BIAB and I am trying to decide between two choices for sparging.

They both start with heating a gallon of drinking water up to 160-165 degrees, then adding your grain bag and letting sit for an hour. While waiting, heat a gallon of sparge water to 170-180 degrees F.

On to sparging. Two methods:

1. Place the drained grain bag in the 1 gallon of heated sparge water and let sit for a few minutes. Then, pour the sparge water back into the mash kettle. Hopefully I'll have about 1.5 gallons of wort in the kettle. My first question with this method would be, how long to let the grain bag sit in the sparge water (how long is 'a few minutes)?

2. Place the drained grain in a strainer, colander, or similar kitchen device, above the mash kettle. Sprinkle the sparge water over the surface of the grain, attempting to rinse them evenly and slowly, using a ladle or measuring cup for this process. Stop sparging once you’ve got about 1.5 gallons of liquid in the kettle. Dispose of the spent grain.

So which method works best - soaking the grains in a gallon of more water, or running the same amount of water over the grain bag into the brew kettle?

 

[McKnuckle]

So which method works best - soaking the grains in a gallon of more water, or running the same amount of water over the grain bag into the brew kettle?

My preference is the soak, otherwise known as a dunk sparge, akin to a traditional batch sparge. It gives you better opportunity to stir and dislodge additional sugars, and is more guaranteed to saturate all of the grain. Plus you get to raise and gravity-drain the bag a second time.

The pour-over sparge is like a shower where you're done as soon as the water runs out. It's not as consistent or thorough.

 

[kevin58]

I'm sure you realized it, hence the nevermind but for those reading. No, beersmith does not have a efficiency prediction model. You MUST tell beersmith what efficiency you anticipate in order to get an OG, it will not adjust your efficiency based on the amount of grains being used.

Um, did I say efficiency? No.

And the never mind was for a completely separate reply to another comment. Thanks for playing though.

 

[doug293cz]

Um, did I say efficiency? No.

And the never mind was for a completely separate reply to another comment. Thanks for playing though.

No, you forgot to mention efficiency. Scaling a recipe over a wide range of OG's has an effect on the lauter efficiency (because larger grain bills have lower lauter efficiency for the same pre-boil volume), and that must be accounted for if you want accurate results. Most recipe scaling software doesn't automatically take the change in efficiency into account.

Brew on

 

[kevin58]

No, you forgot to mention efficiency. Scaling a recipe over a wide range of OG's has an effect on the lauter efficiency (because larger grain bills have lower lauter efficiency for the same pre-boil volume), and that must be accounted for if you want accurate results. Most recipe scaling software doesn't automatically take the change in efficiency into account.

Brew on

It may help to refresh memories of what the original poster asked:
But when using BIAB we lose efficiency so then what? Ramp up the qty of grains so final sugars/OG is inline with the original recipe?

That seems to be a guessing game and not conducive to the precise ingredients some of these recipes demand.

I simply pointed out that if using Beersmith he could use the adjust OG... which I got wrong and is actually "Adjust Gravity" (shown in attached screenshot... home tab, third item from the left on top) which takes the guessing out of it. It was a question of OG not efficiency.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Try again, you're still not getting the relationship between grains, and OG.

If you increases the amount of grain, you're decreasing the efficiency, and increasing the OG. The three are inextricably linked.

Beersmith ignores the efficiency relationship, which is why it lets you do that.

But when using BIAB we lose efficiency so then what? Ramp up the qty of grains so final sugars/OG is inline with the original recipe?

So you increase the amount of grain, which decreases the efficiency, and increases the amount of water needed, then increase the amount of grain a tiny bit more. Repeat until recipe OG and software OG matches. This is really the only way to do this correctly, and no software (besides mine AFAIK) does this.

The way other software (read: beersmith, brewersfriend etc) work ist hat YOU input the efficiency, then you adjust the amount of grain (with no loss in efficiency) until the OG matches the recipe. Then when you actually brew it, you don't hit your target because the software can not antipate changes in gravity. This is why there's rules of thumb like (

if you go over 1.090, expect to lose 10% mash efficiency

. The issue with those guidelines is that it's not a sudden decrease, it's a continuous one.