Anyone gone on to sell their beer?

[jdlev]

This seems like a fabulous hobbie, and I enjoyed the first batch that I've been working on, I wonder if anyone's gone on to actually sell bottles/kegs of their own beer to local restaurants/friends/social clubs etc.

I'm a member of the elks here in NC, and I think if the beer is half as good as the bottled domestic watered down crap beer we could use some proceeds and put it towards our veterans work that we do.

 

[Edcculus]

There is a lot that has to go into being able to sell your beer. It is illegal to sell homebrew. In some states, its fairly easy to start a nano brewery. Usually, they are allowed to self distribute, which takes having to deal with distributors out of the equation. Those guys are usually doing a little more than selling the occasional keg to their elk club though. No matter what, you will have to be licensed to produce and sell alcohol. From what I've been able to gather, the laws concerning alcohol production aren't exactly the most favorable down here in the bible belt.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

NC does actually allow you to self-distribute. I've barely scratched the surface in my research though.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Generally, in order to even reach the smallest brewery license, you have to be able to produce far, far more than the occasional keg. That adds great expense because you can't just brew in some plastic buckets. In addition to the licensing to sell beer, your production facility will have to meet various health and safety requirements set by your state/county/city.

 

[baystatebrew]

what you are referring to is basically everyone's dream in here. sounds like you are intelligent and know enough to not even think about selling your homebrew to anyone without going through your state's licensure. remember, homebrewing itself was illegal from about 1920 until 1978...prohibition of homebrewing outlived prohibition by about half a century. there's a reason for that. the gubmint- fed and state- does not make it easy for people to turn their homebrewing hobby into a legitimate business.

but i for one am rooting for you if you truly follow the dream, because it's not as easy as selling a few six packs at the next elks get together. you might find yourself in cuffs if you try.

 

[arturo7]

The short answer to your question is yes. People have gone past home brewing into commercial brewing. I'd guess that a significant number of the successful micros were started by homebrewers.

 

[CrustyBrau]

Jim Koch did it, but upon a little light research, it turns out he wasn't exactly the first person in his family to brew lots of beer.

 

[Tobyone]

I would gather to say that you could "give it away" at your local lodge. What I mean is here in my town it is illegal to buy or sell beer or wine on Sundays before 12:00, BUT you can "give it away" before that time. I'll give you an example:
Me and a buddy of mine went to a PGA tournament a few years back on a Sunday. Obviously they couldn't sell beer at 8:30 in the morning so what they did was had you buy tickets (like the ones you use for a raffle) and when you went into the beer tent you could "trade" your tickets for food or beer/wine/liquor. That covered there a** legally because you were using a secondary "pay source" if you will to "trade" for said booze. Lots of restaurants do things like that for Sunday brunch. They can "give away" booze they just can't sell it. So I wonder if you could do something like that. I doubt there is anything that says you can't "give away" your homebrew like these restaurants do. Catch my drift.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

I checked with the liquor control board here in Ohio and it is illegal for me to even have my brew on the property of any place with a license to sell beer or liquor.I won't get in trouble but the property owner can lose his license. I am not adverse to bending the law but only if it endangers me. Not into causing someone else troubles.

 

[j1laskey]

Prohibtion was the result of brewers selling their product directly to the consumer. The larger German/American breweries at the time Pabst, Schiltz, ect...sold their product directly to saloons that ussually only carried one of the brewers. There were thousands upon thousands of saloons competing with each other for customers, and each saloon was basically selling the same product. So in order to attract new customers the saloons started allowing seeding activities to take place, gambling and prostitution. With this came a rise in STD, which in turn sparked a huge womens movement to push for prohibition.....after prohibtion the Feds made it illeagal for brewers to sell directly to the general public, and the beer distributor was born....this story is well told in PBS's documenarty "American Brew".

 

[jdlev]

I checked with the liquor control board here in Ohio and it is illegal for me to even have my brew on the property of any place with a license to sell beer or liquor.I won't get in trouble but the property owner can lose his license. I am not adverse to bending the law but only if it endangers me. Not into causing someone else troubles.

That's what I'm skeered of...We've got a liquor license to sell alcohol at the lodge. If I technically 'sold' it...I think we could lose our license...HA! I'd be the most hated man at the lodge because the elks are also a big 'social' club.

I think what I could do is offer it (as many have suggested on the board), as free with a donation to the veterans fund. Then...no one would actually be buying the booz.

It's just f'd up, because the whole reason the gubmint is so strict about these things isn't because it's dangerous or needs to be regulated...they just want their cut. Every bottle of booz in the lodge has to have a sticker on it showing we already paid our share of the 'sin' taxes. It's the biggest reason drinks at bars cost $8/piece now for anything with liquor in them.

 

[Revvy]

I think what I could do is offer it (as many have suggested on the board), as free with a donation to the veterans fund. Then...no one would actually be buying the booz.

Here we go again, people trying to circumvent a very clear cut set of laws...

Any form of EXCHANGE for homebrew is considered illegal under the 1978 repeal of the ban on homebrewing, H.R. 1337...unless of course you become licensed to do so, and pay taxes.

That's the bottom line, folks.

In fact Bartering of alcohol of any type is illegal, period, even for licensed retailers.

Trading or Bartering

The trading or bartering of alcoholic beverages for cash or in exchange for different alcoholic beverages by and between retail liquor dealers, in order that they may take advantage of special deals involving quantity discounts or free goods offered by wholesale liquor dealers, is not a bona fide loan of liquors described in Revenue Ruling 54-509 which outlines transactions constituting bona fide loans. Such trading or bartering constitutes sales for purpose of resale and engaging in this practice would subject the retail dealers to liability for special tax as wholesale liquor dealers and would necessitate the acquiring of basic permits as wholesale liquor dealers. This ruling relates only to the trading or bartering of merchandise between retailers after purchase thereof by one or more retailers individually, and not to the cooperative purchasing of alcoholic beverages by several retailers, dealt with in Revenue Ruling 56-204.

26 U.S.C. 5111; 27 CFR 194.28

And if you are planning to do so, I wouldn't be discussing it on the largest homebrewing site on the web......

Whenever a thread like this, or someone trying to make money off homebrew for whatever reason, charity or otherwise, all these "armchair lawyers," come up with all the ways they think could be "get arounds" the law. Sorry kids, you can hypothesize all you want, but do you notice ever any actually attorneys with knowledge of the law ever coming up with some of this stuff? No.

Whether we agree with the laws or not. You can't loophole your way through this. The laws are pretty specific in regards to homebrewing- any medium of exchange, be it money or barter involving homebrew is illegal.

Remember homebrewing wasn't re-legalized after the Volstead act was repealed in 1933, it wasn't legalized until 1978, and it took a lot of work in those 45 years to get it to happen....and despite it's federal legalization, it is STILL on a State by State basis.

Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

Do a little reading on the history of prohibition and the legalizing of homebrewing, and maybe you'll quit the idiotic hypothisizing about trying to get around the law, and realize what a fine razors edge this hobby sits on to many folks.

Some folks still think you can go blind drinking homebrew.
Other's can't distinguish what we're doing with making meth.

Hell even some cops look on what we're doing with suspicion.

Don't believe me? Check out this Cops episode if you haven't already....look at what "John Law" has to say about our little hobby. "The concotion he was making could be deadly..."



Hell, if MADD gets ever gets their way the oldschool version of prohibition may be like a picnic, compared to what it would be like in modern times. You think they'd let us make anything? (HomeWine making was sort of legal during prohibition as long as you didn't sell)

Look what may be happening in Canada; DUI legislation may expand to allow random breathalyzer tests

No probable cause would be necessary to be forced to breath into a tube.

Quit thinking you can run around the law....if you really want to help, then try to change the laws....Write your congress people, better yet become a congressperson. But quit thinking you can scheme your way through this.

That's what doesn't help give us a good name.

Read this for some enlightenment...It was one of our members https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f19/ohio-university-homebrew-festival-shut-down-140105/#post1590903

If you want to do this, contact the local liquor control commission, find out the laws, and follow the legal process and do it. Plenty of people have. All it It takes time and money.....

 

[Germelli1]

Revvy beat me to it. This thread was following the same thread as all the others before:

Someone is mildly intrigued by selling homebrew
Told it is illegal
People/OP start finding ways around the law but don't realize it is still illegal
OP winds up in cuffs and plays the role of victim in a month from now.

Haha nothing against selling homebrew here, but if you are going to do it...do it right!

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

That's what I'm skeered of...We've got a liquor license to sell alcohol at the lodge. If I technically 'sold' it...I think we could lose our license...HA! I'd be the most hated man at the lodge because the elks are also a big 'social' club.

I think what I could do is offer it (as many have suggested on the board), as free with a donation to the veterans fund. Then...no one would actually be buying the booz.

It's just f'd up, because the whole reason the gubmint is so strict about these things isn't because it's dangerous or needs to be regulated...they just want their cut. Every bottle of booz in the lodge has to have a sticker on it showing we already paid our share of the 'sin' taxes. It's the biggest reason drinks at bars cost $8/piece now for anything with liquor in them.

Read revvys post ... then read my original one again.. in Ohio just HAVING IT ON THE PREMISES can result in loss of license. No selling or trading or bartering necessary. Just HAVING IT at the lodge could cost them their license. I used to take my beer to my friends bar and drink my own and share a little with him and some friends. I was asked to participate in a beer tasting and called on the particulars. It is an absolute no no ON A PREMISES WITH A LICENSE.

 

[Germelli1]

Right I have read OHIOSteve's thread on this subject as well as many others. The most interesting one is the college incident in ohio...if I could only remember where that thread was

 

[PanzerBanana]

You can't give away alcohol, period. Employees of places that sell alcohol aren't allowed discounts.

Also every beer that's officially for sale has to have it's formula registered with the ATF even has to have it's label approved.

 

[Yooper]

State laws vary- in two states, homebrewing is still illegal. In some states, you can give away a couple of six packs per year per person (Michigan), as long as you don't go over the 200 gallon per household maximum. In some states, like Oregon, the law is that HOMEbrew must be consumed in your HOME. You can't take it anywhere at all, not even to a homebrew club meeting or to your own cottage or campground.

Check your state laws, as they vary hugely. In most cases, "donating beer for charity", "giving samples for tickets", etc, will be illegal.

 

[Revvy]

This thread has all of the links covering the bill that legalized Homebrewing...it is a good resource and a very good read.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/history-home-brewing-legalization-u-s-seeking-info-194974/

And this from just a couple weeks ago https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alabama-homebrewer-arrested-194144/?highlight=alabama

I'm all for people following their dreams.

And I must say depite what baystatebrew said how it is every person on here's dream to go pro...it isn't mine. I love this hobby way too much to ever do it pro. There's a big difference between starting a brewday at around 10 am and cooking a bunch of sausages or ribs on the grill while a bunch of friends hang out and you drink and brew. And getting into work @ 5:30 in the morning, and mucking out the brewery and spending a back breaking day in waders and boots.

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

State laws vary- in two states, homebrewing is still illegal. In some states, you can give away a couple of six packs per year per person (Michigan), as long as you don't go over the 200 gallon per household maximum. In some states, like Oregon, the law is that HOMEbrew must be consumed in your HOME. You can't take it anywhere at all, not even to a homebrew club meeting or to your own cottage or campground.

Check your state laws, as they vary hugely. In most cases, "donating beer for charity", "giving samples for tickets", etc, will be illegal.

NJ is similar to Oregon. It's specifically stated that homebrewed beer must be consumed at your home. The weird part is that this seems to be in conflict with them allowing homebrew contests...

 

[Gameface]

Wasn't it legalized in Utah JUST this very year?

This is confusing. I didn't think you were right but I googled it and turns out that one way or another homebrewing was legalized just last year in Utah. It's odd that there has been a successful homebrew store called The Beer Nut in Salt Lake City for over 20 years.

 

[borden]

Here's a nice rags-to-not-quite-riches-but-brewing-commercially story from here in Minneapolis:

http://fultonbeer.com/wordpress/about-fulton

These guys make a fine IPA, and they're opening their new brewery near downtown Minneapolis soon. It all started with an ale pale and a carboy!

 

[Revvy]

This is confusing. I didn't think you were right but I googled it and turns out that one way or another homebrewing was legalized just last year in Utah. It's odd that there has been a successful homebrew store called The Beer Nut in Salt Lake City for over 20 years.

Talk to Conroe on here about Utah laws and homebrewing. He's been doing it for awhile. He had as his location for the longest time "It may be illegal where I live." Many of us new from talking to him that he was i Utah. It wasn't until it became legal that he change it.

But it's a "grey area" issue in a lot of states where it is/was illegal. Look at alabama, where the basic brewing guys do their podcast from.

 

[rexbanner]

what you are referring to is basically everyone's dream in here. sounds like you are intelligent and know enough to not even think about selling your homebrew to anyone without going through your state's licensure. remember, homebrewing itself was illegal from about 1920 until 1978...prohibition of homebrewing outlived prohibition by about half a century. there's a reason for that. the gubmint- fed and state- does not make it easy for people to turn their homebrewing hobby into a legitimate business.

but i for one am rooting for you if you truly follow the dream, because it's not as easy as selling a few six packs at the next elks get together. you might find yourself in cuffs if you try.

I am not advocating bootlegging. However, your chances of getting caught selling beer on a very small scale are next to none, for a variety of reasons. It's not like dealing drugs, where the product itself is illegal and intent to distribute is easy to prove. The feds would have to have some record of a transaction occurring. Since it would be incredibly stupid to keep hard records of such dealings, this would most likely have to be testimony from a buyer, or audiotape of a transaction going down. Not bloody likely.

I for one think that you should be able to sell your beer to anyone of age whenever and wherever you like. It tears me up when I hear politicians spouting pro-small business rhetoric. Beer laws in this country are a perfect example of how hollow those words are.

It makes me angry because a lot of us here have skills comparable to a few years of vocational school, and equipment to match. Us homebrewers really are an untapped resource!

 

[jdlev]

I'm too young to be somebody's *****!!!!

I guess it all boils down to...it just ain't worth it...no matter how good the cause you may be working for...

Of course, my tongue in cheek reaction is, this is just one more intrusion by gov't into the private lives of its citizens and the government (as it so often does) is overstepping its bounds...nanny states suck...but I don't want to get into a political discussion...

 

[jdlev]

Here's a nice rags-to-not-quite-riches-but-brewing-commercially story from here in Minneapolis:

http://fultonbeer.com/wordpress/about-fulton

These guys make a fine IPA, and they're opening their new brewery near downtown Minneapolis soon. It all started with an ale pale and a carboy!

Very cool story