Anyone ever use Fast Pitch canned wort for starters?

[Beer-lord]

I bought 4 cans in early December and used 2 last month and 2 this week. It's great that it's fast and I can't even complain about the cost. I wouldn't mind having these on hand when things got busy but I have no problem mixing, boiling, cooling and spinning.
FWIW, the first one I did was fine. Starter was fine, beer was fine but it's darker than what I usually make.

I say it's not a bad idea, there's a niche for it but it's not something I'm going to be doing regularly.

 

[jdlantian]

I've used it a couple of times and I have to say that with 3 year old and 6 week old boys at home, the time savings is worth it for me. Had results at least as good as using DME starters. No mess in the kitchen, I swear I can't use DME without a couple of poofs coming out of the bag and onto counter tops and glass top stove. If I'm ordering from NB and committed to the shipping cost, I'll tack on a 4 pack again.

 

[OdeCloner]

I've used it, and it was fine. Time savings didn't seem all that great, and the cost is so much higher. My new method for starters is to basically drop the DME, water, stir bar and 2 drops of Fermcap into my flask, put the porous stopper in the top of the flask, then boil. Super easy, no boilovers, and everything is sanitized in one shot with basically 10 minutes of work. Do that in the AM, pitch in the PM after it's cooled. Easy!

 

[m00ps]

you boiled it??? doesnt that defeats the entire purpose of using canned starter wort?

 

[Homercidal]

you boiled it??? doesnt that defeats the entire purpose of using canned starter wort?

I think what he's saying is that his process for making starters (Which he described) doesn't save him that much time over using a Fast Pitch.

 

[mull0263]

Have used these 3 times thus far and have had horrible attenuation every time. Thought these would be a time saver over making starters with DME, and while they were, it's not worth the cost of stuck fermentations. There are plenty of positive reviews on NB, so maybe variables have changed in my brewing process concurrently to using Fast Pitch unbeknownst to me, but this has crippled my last 3 batches and using Fast Pitch as my starter is the only thing that has changed in the process that I know of.

Needless to say, I won't be using them again and do not recommend them.

I want to update my previous comments - I have been having slow fermentations even after going back to traditional starters using DME, so I retract my comments about having bad luck with the fast pitch starters - it appears my problems lie elsewhere

 

[FreddyMar3]

I want to update my previous comments - I have been having slow fermentations even after going back to traditional starters using DME, so I retract my comments about having bad luck with the fast pitch starters - it appears my problems lie elsewhere

What's your starter process look like?

 

[NBBC13]

I also bought a 4 pack of these in December or January. I've always used DME, but the convenience of these has won me over. yes, it's an extra 2 bucks or so for each can, but I'll gladly pay two bucks. I used to keep extra liquid yeast around just in case I forgot to get the starter going, so the cost difference is a little less for me.

 

[MaryB]

I see nothing in the fast pitch that would affect attenuation... are you using saved yeast or fresh? Temp control changed? Is the starter showing good signs of activity and active fermentation? Water source you added to the Fast Pitch? Lot of unanswered questions...

Have used these 3 times thus far and have had horrible attenuation every time. Thought these would be a time saver over making starters with DME, and while they were, it's not worth the cost of stuck fermentations. There are plenty of positive reviews on NB, so maybe variables have changed in my brewing process concurrently to using Fast Pitch unbeknownst to me, but this has crippled my last 3 batches and using Fast Pitch as my starter is the only thing that has changed in the process that I know of.

Needless to say, I won't be using them again and do not recommend them.

 

[MaryB]

I picked up 8 cans. Using the third one tomorrow(just added the yeast so it can sit and ferment overnight). This time of year I have lawn mowing, garden weeding, berry picking/jam making/freezing/wine making, garden produce to blanch and freeze or dehydrate, hot weather that slows me down on top of it. Plus I am disabled and if this keeps me from having to stand over the stove in summer to make a starter I am all for it! Next fall I might get some 2 row and make a 5 gallon batch of starter wort to pressure can in pints. My pressure canner can handle 20+ pints at a time(did I mention I can garden produce too?) so I can make a bunch in cooler weather. I just pressure canned 22 pints of chicken meat and stock for quick meals(pressure canner is the Amish microwave! heat and eat later on!) also. So once I get cooler weather I can do a batch just for a starter but this time of year I do not have the time to mess with it, an extra $2 I can handle!

 

[Yesfan]

Northern Brewer has a promo going for 20% off on select items plus a free 4pk of Fast Pitch. I wanted another big mouth bubbler, so since those were part of the promo, I have a 4pk of Fast Pitch coming.


Looking forward to see if it's as easy as it sounds. On the flip side, this thread is making rethink how I do my starters. The 6qt pressure cooker that was linked is now $25 from Amazon. Then there's the apple juice wort substitution too.


My three pound bag of DME is almost exhausted, so the Fast Pitch should buy me some time until I get more if I don't go the other routes mentioned in this thread.

 

[austin713]

Northern Brewer has a promo going for 20% off on select items plus a free 4pk of Fast Pitch. I wanted another big mouth bubbler, so since those were part of the promo, I have a 4pk of Fast Pitch coming.


Looking forward to see if it's as easy as it sounds. On the flip side, this thread is making rethink how I do my starters. The 6qt pressure cooker that was linked is now $25 from Amazon. Then there's the apple juice wort substitution too.


My three pound bag of DME is almost exhausted, so the Fast Pitch should buy me some time until I get more if I don't go the other routes mentioned in this thread.

Ive been using fast pitch for a while. i can have my starter going on my stirplate in under 5 mins with no boiling of anything and its been making pretty healthy starters consistently. the only thing i dont like is if i want to make a 500ml starter, its not an option. its 1L or nothin.

 

[kh54s10]

I am one who has not tried the Fast Pitch. I bought a pressure canner at a yard sale for $5. Bought a new gasket set online for $10. About $3.50 worth of 2 row gets me about 2 Gallons of starter wort. That beats the crap out of using DME.

I have also read that the cheap pressure cookers are not right for canning. They don't give the proper amount of pressure to be totally safe. But I don't know if that info is current.

 

[Homercidal]

I am one who has not tried the Fast Pitch. I bought a pressure canner at a yard sale for $5. Bought a new gasket set online for $10. About $3.50 worth of 2 row gets me about 2 Gallons of starter wort. That beats the crap out of using DME.

I have also read that the cheap pressure cookers are not right for canning. They don't give the proper amount of pressure to be totally safe. But I don't know if that info is current.

That is correct. You need a "Canner" in order to get the required pressure to get the temp up to proper canning temps. IIRC it's 15 lbs (250F) for 45 minutes or more. I know it was hard to find any information online specific to starter wort, but there isn't enough sugar content to allow for boil-canning.

I was avoiding making more starter wort due to the heat and being busy, but I might pull out the canner and make some more up while I'm brewing outside this weekend. It's really handy to have on hand when you are using liquid yeast.

 

[jmill]

The thing that keeps me from trying this is shipping cost. If you're ordering a bunch of stuff or making a big equipment upgrade, it might make sense as an add on. But if you're just ordering the fast pitch to try, shipping makes it fairly expensive.

 

[MaryB]

NB has flat rate and I am always ordering from them... long as it isn't a big bulky item(bulk malt, brew pots, buckets etc) $7.99 shipping!

 

[treacheroustexan]

I just bought a 4 pack for giggles.

 

[droder1]

Ive been using fast pitch for a while. i can have my starter going on my stirplate in under 5 mins with no boiling of anything and its been making pretty healthy starters consistently. the only thing i dont like is if i want to make a 500ml starter, its not an option. its 1L or nothin.

This. It's relatively pricey yes, but the time savings is immense in my book, making it worth it.

 

[Horseflesh]

I haven't used or made a canned starter yet but I am beginning to prepare wort for a starter and keep it in the freezer. It is really easy to make wort with a vacuum sealer and sous vide cooker. No mess, no babysitting a pot. Keep it hot long enough, and it is pasteurized. Then it goes into the freezer for later use. It's not sterile enough for room-temperature storage, though!

This is a nice compromise if you have the freezer space.

A pasteurization table is quoted in this thread:
http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=13524.0

I do 150F for an hour or so which is probably overkill.

 

[Bassman2003]

It is not safe to just "freeze" wort. It has to be pressure canned to be totally clear of botulism risk (240f) Wort is a low acid food and freezing is not enough.

 

[Horseflesh]

So far I have only made starters this way same day so I am not dead yet. I will look into this more but was under the impression botulism was not an issue for wort. Plenty of low-acid unpasteurized foods get bagged and frozen. Glad you mentioned it though.

 

[Bassman2003]

When it comes to Botulism, I would not go "homebrew". Even if the chance is small.

 

[Derp]

I've been wondering about the whole botulism thing. If it's not safe to store a quart jar of wort in the freezer, then what about White Lab vials that I refill with yeast built up from starters? I've done the same thing with Mason jars of yeast. Is it dangerous to do so? I'm not sure what the pH of the stored wort/yeast is. I guess I should check.

 

[Bassman2003]

The whole danger with wort is that it is a massive growth medium at a low pH. A perfect place to growth things.

 

[wilserbrewer]

It is not safe to just "freeze" wort. It has to be pressure canned to be totally clear of botulism risk (240f) Wort is a low acid food and freezing is not enough.

I'm confused?

Are you saying it is unsafe to put boiled wort in a sanitary container, freeze it, thaw it and boil again before reuse?

Please educate me on this risk?

 

[Bassman2003]

The conversation up to now did not seem to have a long boiling stage involved. I thought a quick starter was made or some extra wort from a mash was being frozen.

The more you do the less the risk. But I was merely stating that the Botulism spores themselves can withstand 212f. It is the recommendation for food safety to bring the items up to 240f for complete eradication.

Here is an article about it - http://beerandwinejournal.com/botulism/

 

[Horseflesh]

The thing I find confusing about botulism food safety is the notion that freezing food is not enough to keep it safe. It seems like any food which is frozen and used immediately after defrosting should be safe.

I realize the spores survive boiling and freezing but I would not expect them to multiply in the freezer.

Pasteurize wort, freeze wort, defrost wort, add yeast -- where is the bacterial amplification step occurring in that sequence? That does not seem to incur any more risk than adding DME to water, boiling, cooling, adding yeast, and keeping it warm. In each case your starter could have spores present. Why is the trip to the freezer adding risk?

 

[MaryB]

If you boil the frozen wort before using you are fine.

 

[droder1]

If you boil the frozen wort before using you are fine.

Potentially Dangerous misinformation. As noted in the posts up above , botulism spores are not killed by boiling. It would kill the toxin if boiled for 30 mins, which is lengthy for a yeast starter.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1307

 

[droder1]

I've been wondering about the whole botulism thing. If it's not safe to store a quart jar of wort in the freezer, then what about White Lab vials that I refill with yeast built up from starters? I've done the same thing with Mason jars of yeast. Is it dangerous to do so? I'm not sure what the pH of the stored wort/yeast is. I guess I should check.

Difference here would be the presence of alcohol and a different ph. Plain Unfermented wort vs fermented wort with yeast present.