Any results? White Labs WLP670 American Farmhouse Blend

[Tfire136]

Thanks for the info. I was definitely thinking of doing a starter. What are everyones thoughts about being able to freeze some samples for the yeast bank?

Just figured I would throw this back out there. From what I gather I should use separate "soft" parts when working with the Saccharomyces/Bret strain (different hoses/racking cane). Apparently by making a starter the ratio Saccharomyces to Bret can be different than the originally intended White Labs blend, however I wonder if I would really be able to tell the difference. Still curious as to peoples thoughts on being able to freeze this stuff?? As stated above, the ratios of the blend may be off, but I think it still would make for an interesting strain to have on hand. Thoughts anyone??

 

[erikpete18]

I was always under the impression that on these blends it was heavily tilted towards the sacc, something like 95/5, so a start should grow up the sacc enough to handle the main bulk of the wort but still leave enough brett behind to funk it up during some long aging.

As far as freezing (glycerol?), in theory it would be alright so long as you got enough brett in the sample, although i'd be worried about the viability of such a small proportion of brett, you might wind up with only sacc and do all this aging without any funk. If you want to freeze it you might be better off buying one of the tubes of just brett and freezing that down.

For the plastic, I'd definitely recommend a second set, especially if you are planning on doing more than one "wild" beer. A new siphon/tubing is much cheaper than an unexpectedly funky batch of beer (which isn't to say that that couldn't turn out tasty ).

 

[RJSkypala]

I made a bunch of slants of this blend, it will be interesting to see how these proportions work themselves out when I grow up the cultures in the future. I am sure even the smallest amount of brett will make it into the sample and, provided that there are sugars left and the are given time they should be able to grow again.

 

[rgrace99]

I brewed with this a week ago, a pretty standard saison recipe. After a week I had already reached my target terminal gravity, the beer had a nice spicy taste but I didn't taste any contributions from the Brett yet. I'm wondering how much longer I should leave it in primary before racking, I figure at least another two weeks but any advice is appreciated since this is my first time brewing with Brett.

 

[lacticacid]

Should I be concerned if I did not get s pellicle with either of two batches I brewed with it?

Both taste good. I guess that is all that matters.

 

[emjay]

Should I be concerned if I did not get s pellicle with either of two batches I brewed with it?

Both taste good. I guess that is all that matters.

Not necessarily. Pellicles only form as a barrier to oxygen.

 

[RJSkypala]

The one that I put into secondary (the first I went straight to keg) formed a nice pellicle even though it is filled almost all the way to the top and there is essentially no oxygen exposure. However, it has been bubbling for over 2 weeks in the secondary even though the gravity was at 1.006 when I racked so the brett is definitely still working. Interested to see how it turns out.

 

[Brkstoutfeind]

I did a starter and mine turned out great. I kept mine in the Primary for 2 weeks then racked on 5lbs of Apricots in the secondary where I left it for 4 weeks. I just cracked my first one on Saturday and it's very tasty. It's got very nice tartness on the back end that I'm hoping intensifies over time. I used a little acid malt to accentuate the tartness of the apricots so right now I'm not sure of it's that, the Brett or the apricots that's causing the tartness. It's probably a little of each I suppose but I really don't care because this is one of the best beers I've brewed yet!!!

 

[AmandaK]

I did a starter and mine turned out great. I kept mine in the Primary for 2 weeks then racked on 5lbs of Apricots in the secondary where I left it for 4 weeks. I just cracked my first one on Saturday and it's very tasty. It's got very nice tartness on the back end that I'm hoping intensifies over time. I used a little acid malt to accentuate the tartness of the apricots so right now I'm not sure of it's that, the Brett or the apricots that's causing the tartness. It's probably a little of each I suppose but I really don't care because this is one of the best beers I've brewed yet!!!

How much acidulated malt did you use?

 

[Brkstoutfeind]

How much acidulated malt did you use?

I only used 4oz which I've since learned is not enough to add any significant tartness. I've got another Saison going right now that I'm souring and I used 1lb in that recipe. It's only been aging for about 6 weeks and it already has a pleasant tartness to it. Again it's hard to determine if it's the acid malt or the dregs I pitched that's contributing the sour flavor. I've just started brewing sours so I'm still experimenting myself. Just remember to watch your mash ph if you use more than a half pound of acid malt.

 

[RJSkypala]

The I brewed two beers with this last summer, one was a low ABV session saison with american hops (centennial). After a few months in the keg it was quite an incredible beer. Slightly tart, funky and a nice citrusy note from the hops.

The second beer was a rye saison that is currently sitting in bottles. It wasn't showing much tartness last time I tasted it, but a very pronounced fruity brett character.

Today I am brewing a saison and pitching a starter that is combined slants of WLP670 and WLP565. I am very interested to see what flavors from each come out.

 

[edecambra]

I brewed a belgian specialty ala BCS last September, aged it until early December (when I bottled) and by February I had significant Brett (brux) development. I pitched two bottle dregs worth of Orval after primary to bulk age and that was it. If your blend has the bugs in it from the get go I'd say in 2-3 months you should have noticeable funk.

Mine has wonderful subtle tart pineapple twang in the beer and I LOVE it. Bugs are great and I might look into this strain depending on what I hear from you guys.

 

[thomismydad]

I brewed 15 gallons of Surly Cynic Ale based on the Pro kit recipe from Northern Brewer today. I put 10 into my conical with the standard WLP550. I put the other 5 gallons in a carboy and pitched WLP670. I am really looking forward to see how it turns out and how different it is than the 550.

How did the Cynic with WLP670 turn out? I was contemplating doing this but given the acidulated malt in the NB Cynic recipe I thought it might interfer with the sourness of the yeast.

 

[mloula]

This is a new concept to me to mash overnight for a sour mash. How much sour did you get from this? Considering this procedure for tonight and sparging tomorrow and pitching the 670...

I'm about to pitch this yeast tomorrow. My recipe is a basic Belgian/French ale with a OG of 1.054 and I started my mash today at 5:00pm at 152 degrees. I'm letting it sit overnight for a sour mash and will start sparging around 2pm. The owner at my LHBS said it has a "sweaty horse balls" character to it, so we'll see.

 

[ChillWill]

Any final gravities after long-ish term aging / secondary-ing?

I brewed up a fair basic farmhouse ale - pale malt with rye, munich and wheat (about 10% each). Mashed around 154F and it went from 1.049 to 1.007 in two weeks in primary. Have tx'd to secondary and wondering how long to age it (first beer w/brett I've done). I'm not in a particular rush for it, and would rather wait than risk bottle bombs if the brett is going to work it down a little more?

 

[Aschecte]

Ok so here is my .02 cents FWIW I brewed using this strain back in the beginning of March and bottled in mid July and also through in s-04 as a bottleing strain and had my first at a brewing party I had not long ago. all I can say is WOW this is awesome !!!! I promise you there will be a amount of sourness not quite Lambic sour but definitely there none the less. I picked up on pineapple, cherry, horse blanket, kinda a tobacco like quality but not overpowering as well as that saison pepperiness. I was very happy with this strain and as time goes on the sour is becoming more previlent. Here is the recipe I used I did use Brett B and C as well as 565 with this but from what I can gather that's what 670 a combo of 565 and Brett C.

2 Bretts Saison
Saison
Type: All Grain Date: 3/27/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer: Aaron Schecter
Boil Size: 9.03 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Aaron's mlt
End of Boil Volume 7.02 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 69.26 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 87.1 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsen (Dingemans) (1.6 SRM) Grain 1 65.2 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 17.4 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.7 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 4 8.7 %
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 16.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 6.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 2.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Farmhouse Blend (White Labs #WLP670) [50.28 ml] Yeast 8 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison I Ale (White Labs #WLP565) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces Bruxellensis (White Labs #WLP650) [50.28 ml] [Add to Secondary] Yeast 10 -
1.0 pkg Brettanomyces Claussenii (White Labs #WLP645) [50.28 ml] [Add to Secondary] Yeast 11 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.056 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.005 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.002 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.6 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.1 %
Bitterness: 25.1 IBUs Calories: 182.0 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 4.6 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 8.0 oz
Sparge Water: 7.01 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 14.13 qt of water at 162.5 F 148.0 F 75 min

Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 7.01 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Bottle Volumes of CO2: 2.7
Pressure/Weight: 5.00 oz Carbonation Used: Bottle with 5.00 oz Corn Sugar
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Storage Temperature: 65.0 F
Notes


Created with BeerSmith

 

[ChillWill]

Drinking a bottle of farmhouse ale with this now. 10% crystal rye (thought it was normal rye).

Two weeks in it hit 1.008, 5ish months later in secondary down to 1.003 and bottled.

Tastes nice, got a real nice grainy flavour from the rye, a little diacetyl maybe but its still young in bottle. I added wlp001 when bottling.

Think I get a little pineapple. Maybe a bit of farmyard (dry hay) in the after taste but its not over the top.

Nice! The funk becomes more noticeable as you get deeper into the glass.

I was expecting more phenolics from the sacc, but that seems pretty neutral, which I suppose is better to let the subtle grain and farmyard flavours come through.

 

[Chris7687]

Just made a starter of this blend. I have never brewed a Brett beer before, so I am a little nervous with the sanitation of all my equipment.

My plan is to ferment this for a 2-3 weeks in primary (70* F) and then move to secondary for 2 months at least at room temp which is around 77* during the day and 70* at night, does this temp sound suitable for secondary?

I can't age this beer in my only fermentation chamber and take up space for new beers.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Used this a few times now, but 2 are still aging. The one I did a couple of years ago was pitched at 67, allowed to warm up to 72 and then held around there for a few months. Then at room temp as winter got into effect, so not so hot as that but not cold either. I always skip secondary with Brett beers though and never have autolysis problems or anything, even on beers aged up to 16 months, all in primary. The beer with WLP670 was in primary for 7 months with no problem and was very tasty. That blend works very well. For me, though, it wasn't showing much Brett at 3 months in. It was much better at 7 months in.

 

[Chris7687]

Glad to hear you haven't had problems. I'd really like to keep this in secondary to 1) reduce exposure of Brett to my other vessels and equipment and 2) reduce exposure to oxygen.

How long would you say this yeast needs to eat on the wort before bottling? I've seen people say 4-6 months, as Brett's are prone to bottle bombs. The beer I'm planning on making with this strain is a popular Saison in the recipe section, Shipwrecked Saison. It has a 1.065 estimated OG. Do you think this will require a blowoff or will a normal airlock suffice?

Also, before bottling it was mentioned that I might need to repitch yeast, if waiting 4-6 months. Is this true? If so, any recommendations? Or just standard US-05?

 

[m00ps]

Glad to hear you haven't had problems. I'd really like to keep this in secondary to 1) reduce exposure of Brett to my other vessels and equipment and 2) reduce exposure to oxygen.

How long would you say this yeast needs to eat on the wort before bottling? I've seen people say 4-6 months, as Brett's are prone to bottle bombs. The beer I'm planning on making with this strain is a popular Saison in the recipe section, Shipwrecked Saison. It has a 1.065 estimated OG. Do you think this will require a blowoff or will a normal airlock suffice?

Also, before bottling it was mentioned that I might need to repitch yeast, if waiting 4-6 months. Is this true? If so, any recommendations? Or just standard US-05?

Im guessing you are secondarying this and adding the brett into the secondary?
You wont need to repitch yeast. There will be enough sacch (and esp brett) in suspension to carb it up.
I think you could get away with closer to 3 months provided you make a decent starter for the brett. Also, adding commercial dregs seems to help speed things along. Just be sure you dont add anything with souring bugs included or youll turn your brettd beer into a sour

 

[Chris7687]

I made a starter of WLP670, which is a Farmhouse blend with Brett in it. So, the Sacch and Brett are going into the primary together.

Even after 3 months in the primary there will be enough to carb up the bottles, without repitching?

 

[m00ps]

I made a starter of WLP670, which is a Farmhouse blend with Brett in it. So, the Sacch and Brett are going into the primary together.

Even after 3 months in the primary there will be enough to carb up the bottles, without repitching?

Yup

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Glad to hear you haven't had problems. I'd really like to keep this in secondary to 1) reduce exposure of Brett to my other vessels and equipment and 2) reduce exposure to oxygen.

How long would you say this yeast needs to eat on the wort before bottling? I've seen people say 4-6 months, as Brett's are prone to bottle bombs. The beer I'm planning on making with this strain is a popular Saison in the recipe section, Shipwrecked Saison. It has a 1.065 estimated OG. Do you think this will require a blowoff or will a normal airlock suffice?

Also, before bottling it was mentioned that I might need to repitch yeast, if waiting 4-6 months. Is this true? If so, any recommendations? Or just standard US-05?

In my experience, this blend won't show much Brett character at 3 months in. I'd wait 4-6 months, then bottle.

With mine, I added champagne yeast at bottling, but I won't repeat that. The beer was overcarbed. I think the Brett ate the fresh yeast when it died, or ate the products of autolysis or whatever it is that Brett eats when other yeast die and that adding yeast gives the Brett something else to metabolize and make more carbonation, resulting in higher than calculated carbonation.

Since then, I've made a lot of other Brett beers that have aged for long periods and no longer add yeast at bottling and they carb up great. Brett is a beast, after all. I just bottled a 5 month old Brett beer that used the Yeast Bay Saison-Brett blend. At about 10 days in, it's lightly carbed. I'd say it needs another week or 10 days and it'll be finished carbonating.

When I bottle these Brett beers that have aged out and don't add any yeast, I can inspect the bottle after a few days and see yeast in the bottom. Plenty in suspension. And Brett seems to me to stay viable much longer than Sacch. yeast.

One caveat, when the beer is *really* old, I add another strain of Brett to carbonate. I just bottled a 16 month old Brett beer about six weeks or so ago and added a relatively fresh vial of White Labs Brett C at bottling. Not a starter, just poured the vial into the bottling bucket. Carbed up great after about two weeks. And that beer is 9.1% abv.

The interesting part is when some of the strains form a pellicle in the bottle. No, there isn't excess O2 in there. I fill my bottles pretty full. But some strains form a pellicle in the bottle. Infection! Infected with Brett.

 

[Chris7687]

Matt,
Thanks for the insight. I'm excited to age this beer for a few months. It's looking like it'll be my birthday beer in July 2016!

Question, since the beer already bulk ages does it need to bottle age too? Or can I just start handing it out?

 

[m00ps]

Once its carbed up just start giving em out like candy. But be sure to save a six pack or two and tuck it away out of sight. It will change over time

 

[Chris7687]

Think it's worth while to bottle in fancy Belgian bottles and cork/cage? Or just normal bottles and caps?

 

[m00ps]

as long as its at FG, you can use regular bottles. I do save my heavy european bottles for sour and wild beers though, just in case. But ive never had a regular bottled one blow

 

[jaydlaw]

Somewhat related, I am currently fermenting a batch I made. It's the saison de Noel recipe from northern Brewer. I am using omega yeast American farmhouse yeast, but it sounds very similar to the yeast you are discussing.

 

[Rdom]

In my experience, this blend won't show much Brett character at 3 months in. I'd wait 4-6 months, then bottle.

With mine, I added champagne yeast at bottling, but I won't repeat that. The beer was overcarbed. I think the Brett ate the fresh yeast when it died, or ate the products of autolysis or whatever it is that Brett eats when other yeast die and that adding yeast gives the Brett something else to metabolize and make more carbonation, resulting in higher than calculated carbonation.

Since then, I've made a lot of other Brett beers that have aged for long periods and no longer add yeast at bottling and they carb up great. Brett is a beast, after all. I just bottled a 5 month old Brett beer that used the Yeast Bay Saison-Brett blend. At about 10 days in, it's lightly carbed. I'd say it needs another week or 10 days and it'll be finished carbonating.

When I bottle these Brett beers that have aged out and don't add any yeast, I can inspect the bottle after a few days and see yeast in the bottom. Plenty in suspension. And Brett seems to me to stay viable much longer than Sacch. yeast.

One caveat, when the beer is *really* old, I add another strain of Brett to carbonate. I just bottled a 16 month old Brett beer about six weeks or so ago and added a relatively fresh vial of White Labs Brett C at bottling. Not a starter, just poured the vial into the bottling bucket. Carbed up great after about two weeks. And that beer is 9.1% abv.

The interesting part is when some of the strains form a pellicle in the bottle. No, there isn't excess O2 in there. I fill my bottles pretty full. But some strains form a pellicle in the bottle. Infection! Infected with Brett.

I actually bottled the first batch I made with this yeast right at 3 months and it had plenty of Brett character. Kept it in primary the whole time. It's delicious! I did include some flaked oats in the recipe so the Brett would have something to chomp on after the Sacch was done. It's continued to change while in the bottle.
My second batch has now also been sitting for 3 months and I plan to bottle next week (made with the slurry for the previous batch).