Any changes you would make to this Honey Brown recipe I hacked together?

[str8jkt]

This will be my third all grain BIAB brew. My wife is requesting a honey brown which is her favorite style. I have read a ton on using honey and ways to get the honey flavor to come out more. Built this recipe from a couple different sources so just wanted to see what people thought.

Aim is a slightly sweeter honey brown. I don't want this to be a dessert beer so if my numbers seem off please offer alternatives. I'm also a little unsure of how much to add for hops to this as every brown ale recipe I see varies from next to no hops up to massive amounts...

All suggestions are welcome! Thanks!

9.00 lb 2 row
1.00 lb Honey Malt
0.75 lb Crystal-20
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt

Hops
Fuggles – 0.5 oz – 75 minutes
Williamette – 0.5 oz – 10 minutes

Other
Honey – 0.75lb – 5 minutes
US-05 yeast
Mash 155 - 1 hour
Boil 75 minutes

Also considering adding some honey at around day 4 or 5 of primary fermentation (allow most fermenting work to be done before adding the honey into the primary to try to retain flavor). I understand most of the honey added even with 5 minutes left will lose some flavor and add to the beer coming out a little drier....Not sure if I will proceed with this yet though.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions!

My main concerns are two things..
Whether the amount of crystal and honey malt may be too much even though I am aiming for a slightly sweeter brown?
Whether I need to increase/decrease/change my hop schedule?

Thanks everyone!! This site has been great as a beginner brewer.

 

[rhys333]

I just brewed a honey Kolsch that I'm really happy with. It included 8% honey and just 3% honey malt and has a delicate but very noticeable honey flavor and sweetness. This is a light beer though and the question is how much to drop in a darker beer like a brown? Hmmm. You have about 9% honey malt in there and it's powerful stuff. Also 7% C20, so together you're up at 16% which I think is a bit heavy and a lot sweet.

If it were me, I'd reduce that Honey malt to no more than 5% of grist, omit the C20 (replacing with a character malt like Munich) and increase the amount of chocolate malt. You have about 2% chocolate in there now and I think it needs to be up around 3-4% to be considered a brown. Problem is it could overpower the delicate honey character though. I might go with 5% PALE chocolate plus a touch of black patent (or debittered alternative) for colour. This should give a really nice chocolatey character without overpowering the honey flavor you'd want. I don't think you'll get much from the liquid honey other than ABV, but if you want to include I would do it at flame-out or later. As for IBUs, it looks a bit low to me... 10 or so? I think you'll want low 20s as a bare minimum (for a standard gravity batch), and higher if it's on the heavier side. Something along these lines maybe:

80% 2 Row - 8lbs
10% Munich 10 - 1lb
5% Honey malt - 0.5lb
5% Pale chocolate - 0.5lb
Liquid honey @ 0 if desired
Bittering hop @ 75 or 60 to 20 IBU (high alpha like Magnum or Warrior)
0.5 oz Willamette @ 10
US05

 

[Oginme]

I agree with rhys333 on a lot of his points. I do a honey brown with around 4.5% Honey malt. I find too much and you lose the 'honey' flavor. I also agree with the move to the pale chocolate malt. Regular chocolate malt has a bit of harsh roast flavor that I find detracts from the 'smoothness' of the honey attributes. I also add in some special roast to combine with the pale chocolate to enhance the nuttiness with a little tang or very slight sourness which I find helps with the impression of chocolate flavors.

I add honey in the primary fermentor around day 4 or so when most of the active fermentation has died down. It is very easy to blow off the honey aromas that you may be looking for in the boil, even when added late. I look for a local honey with lots of aromatics when I open the bottle. You will lose some in the fermentor, but enough carries through to the bottled beer.

 

[str8jkt]

Awesome responses. Thanks guys! I apologize for not responding earlier even to thank you. I have altered my recipe a bit taking what you both suggested in mind. I'll even take what you said in mind rhys, even after noticing your location (I'm in Calgary).

This is my first time brewing up a darker beer so I was unsure when it came to some of the specialty malts. Its always tricky trying to walk that fine line of a slightly sweeter beer that doesn't taste like candy...

New recipe

BIAB - Assuming 70% efficiency
5.5 Gallon batch
75 min boil
Mash at 155

82.5% - 2 Row (9.5 lb)
6.5% - Honey Malt (0.75 lb)
4.3% - Pale Chocolate Malt (0.5 lb)
4.3% - Crystal Malt 60 (0.5 lb)
2.2% - Crystal Malt 20 (0.25 lb)

1.25 oz Fuggles at 60 min of boil
0.50 oz Willamette at 10 min of boil

Beersmith gives me the following numbers

1.052 SG
23.7 IBU
20.3 SRM

All three fall into the range of an American Brown Ale (low end on color).

I have decided to scrap the honey during the boil and add 1lb during the 4th or 5th day of fermentation in the primary.


Any further suggestions? Am I still way out to lunch on my specialty grains?

Any suggestions for other yeast to use? I have always stuck with the dry packs of US-05 but am wondering if there might be a better one to use for this (especially considering the honey addition I am planning partway through the fermenting..)

Thanks again guys!

 

[Oginme]

I tend to like English yeasts for my darker recipes. Having said that, the last couple of times I did a honey brown (next brew is due up in February), I used the California Lager strain from Wyeast (WY2112). Fermented down right around 60F (15.6C) and raised it up just a bit to 65F (18.3C) shortly after adding the honey. I'm sticking with that from now on. Clean and crisp, it really allowed a nice finish to accentuate the honey notes in the aroma and flavor.

 

[Steveruch]

When I do a honey beer I prime with honey.

 

[str8jkt]

Brewed this on Saturday. Ended up using Wyeast 1968 for something different. Hit mash temp on the button and only lost 1 degree over an hour even with 2 quick stirs.

I have 2 pounds of fresh honey from a local farm ready to add either tomorrow or Wednesday (after the vigorous fermentation is complete).


Learnings this time.
Whirfloc sure seemed to clear up the wort! Although I had my order double milled to try to increase efficiency so a lot more stuff got through the bazooka filter into the primary (plus didn't use a hop sock this time). Am running a conical catalyst so will just mean swapping out the trub trap a couple extra times. Next time I am going to throw a hop sock on the output ball valve from the kettle to catch a bunch of this stuff before it hits the primary. When the trub had settled (prior to yeast starting up) it was a very dark brown.

Amount going into the fermenter was low - was aiming for a 5.5 gallon batch but didn't take into effect the longer 75 minute boil. Amount into the fermenter was almost 5 gallons on the nose.

Wort was sweet but am hoping with the added fermentation of some of the honey that will be added soon that it will mellow out a little.



On a sidenote also bottled by Citra-ennial Blonde this weekend. It tasted a little "wheat-y" to me.. It was a flat beer as I bottle so they haven't had a chance to carb up. Am hoping it mellows out a little but I am very pleased with the citra dry hop. Gives it just enough that even my hop hating wife was still eager for the bottles to finish up. In her words "I'll drink that!"

Keeping the wife happy means brewing more! Although next beer is going to be for me after a blonde and honey brown on the go both by her request..

Thanks again for the suggestions and help guys!