Probably safe to use after you get back to about 180 I imagine.. which should happen pretty quick with the chiller.
ANVIL FOUNDRY ALL-GRAIN BREWING SYSTEM
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Probably safe to use after you get back to about 180 I imagine.. which should happen pretty quick with the chiller.
McKnuckle
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Yes, all you really need to do is stir for about 2 minutes and then pump away.
LagerLover78
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Thanks McKnuckle and Trogdor! Debating on ordering the NB pump or just going with the recirc kit.
RufusBrewer
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Well Spackle My Bottom.
I did not know there was a pump kit instructions. If I knew there was such a restriction, I would have gone in a different direction. Oh well . . . . .
NSMikeD
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No need to have regrets
I’m not sure there is a benefit to running the pump during the boil since the physics of a boil create a natural circulation. I made the mistake on my first foundry brew to use the pump to circulate wort through my hop spider. The pump survived but it just caused the hop spider to clog. Fortunately I abandoned that method and let the boil circulate through the spider. The wort rose through the hops at the bottom and emptied out the sides for a better method.
RufusBrewer
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Not a big deal. I already have a pump. (I like to have back ups) When you take away the pump that cannot handle boiling liquids, what are you left with? Some hose, some clamps, and stainless steel plate with some holes.
For $60 you can get a full temp pump, $40 gets you lots of tubing and stuff.
For $60 you can get a full temp pump, $40 gets you lots of tubing and stuff.
Ogilthorpe2
The man in the black pajamas
Why would you need to pump boiling liquids anyway?
I just brewed my first Foundry batch a few days ago. I felt a little clumsy dealing with a new process, but all in all, it went well.
The wort cooled with the chiller to my 170 hop stand temp in less than 5 minutes.
Noob_Brewer
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agreed with this. If doing a hop stand, the chiller does the leg work without need for recirculating. If not doing a hop stand and chilling to pitching temps from the boil, I simply start the chilling with my immersion chiller only and within 3 minutes its down to ~180-190 and then I start the recirculation whirlpool.
RufusBrewer
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If you cannot pump boiling liquids through a given pump, what temp is safe, what temp is too high? The Anvil manual does not say. I am going to believe 170°-175° you should be safe.
Granted, using an Anvil Foundry as advertised, (with the immersion chiller) you do not need a pump rated at 212°.
I pump boiling wort through a CFC or pump boiling liquids for sanitation.
Like I said, I paid an extra $100. For that same money I could have bough a $60 pump rated for boil temps and figured out the rest for $40.
Skeptonomicon
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This may not be temp related, but just to avoid the extreme wear introduced to any pump when operating on a mixture of liquids and gas, which is what you get if you operate on boiling wort. The impellor will free spin to high speeds when you get a gas bubble then a sudden deceleration when it gets back into wort.
DarrellQ
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Yes, I missed that too and for several brews I circulated boiling wort through it for a couple minutes towards end of the boil to "sanitize" it since I knew I would be using the pump during chilling and transfer. It didn't seem to hurt it. How do others sanitize it following mashing when you intend to use it for chilling and transfer? I would hate to take it off at that point to clean/sanitize.
Ogilthorpe2
The man in the black pajamas
Sanitizing doesn’t require boiling temperatures. Pasteurization happens at like 170F
Why not throw some starsan in it and turn the pump on for a couple of minutes? crank the flow to max, blow out any potential particles floating around as well.
Edit: this should be sanitized as above posted. I misread this as 'post' for cleaning
Off Balance Brewing
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Just FYI I did contact Anvil and they confirmed the pump is rated for boil temp, they just don't recommend running it at boil due to cavitation. I agree 170 recirculation coming up to boil should sanitize everything.
Good to know! I have no plans or needs to run it at boil temps, but it's good to know that it won't melt or anything if I run it close to that i.e. 200F or something. I didn't expect them to supply something that could be damaged quite so easily but again it's good to know for sure.
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The chart for heat Pasteurization:
| Temperature | Time | Pasteurization Type |
|---|---|---|
| 63ºC (145ºF)1) | 30 minutes | Vat Pasteurization |
| 72ºC (161ºF)1) | 15 seconds | High temperature short time Pasteurization (HTST) |
| 89ºC (191ºF) | 1.0 second | Higher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST) |
| 90ºC (194ºF) | 0.5 seconds | Higher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST) |
| 94ºC (201ºF) | 0.1 seconds | Higher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST) |
| 96ºC (204ºF) | 0.05 seconds | Higher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST) |
| 100ºC (212ºF) | 0.01 seconds | Higher-Heat Shorter Time (HHST) |
| 138ºC (280ºF) | 2.0 seconds | Ultra Pasteurization (UP) |
You DON'T need to have boiling water running through your pump to sanitize it. 15 seconds above 161F/72C will do the job.
would cinching down the flow prevent cavitation? I see that it's probably not much of a concern since the boil will cool quickly enough to not extend the brew period excessively.
{meant to include quote from Off Balance Brewing re: boil temp limits for anvil pump}
{meant to include quote from Off Balance Brewing re: boil temp limits for anvil pump}
My guess is it would make things worse. The pump would be working even harder, relatively speaking, and even more bubbles would be created.
OK-did what I should have done first, some research. Did not understand the principle completely. found this:
4. Internal Re-circulation: In this instance, the pump cannot discharge at the proper rate and so the liquid is re-circulated around the impeller. The liquid travels through low and high pressure zones resulting in heat and high velocity. The end result? Vaporised bubbles. Common cause for this, is when a discharge valve has been close while the pump is running.
72 and still learning
DarrellQ
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I believe you but, curious why many folks, including even those who have written books, say to put the immersion chiller into the wort during the last 10 minutes of the boil if .01 seconds will do it?
It's a valid question. I do it at about 10 minutes because that's when I put in the Irish Moss, yeast nutrients if any, and etc. It simplifies things for me. But, yes, it's way more time than needed, for sure.
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It's called "Covering your A$$". I have a dairy farm and am well versed with the time it takes to pasteurize fluids. Many people over heat or hold for too long which may damage flavor or stability of foods. In the case of an immersion chiller, it does not hurt anything, so why not. If the immersion chiller produced a metallic taste, then you would find more precise instructions.
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Last couple brews I dropped the immersion chiller in just before I turn the power off and turn the water on as suggested by others. I changed to this because even with 240V it takes quite a bit of time to get a good boil going again. But maybe this wrong?
LagerLover78
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Does anyone here with the new 10.5 gallon mash basket (with the brackets instead of the triangular feet and ring) have a pic they could share of how straight or crooked it looks when its mounted on top of the boiler during sparging?
I dont have FB, so looking at the user group there has been pretty tenuous...i was scrolling for an hour or so and couldnt find pics. I also tried the Anvil website and it looks like the malt basket sits pretty straight. However it's hard to tell if it's just a pic of the old unit with the ring or the new unit.
I dont have FB, so looking at the user group there has been pretty tenuous...i was scrolling for an hour or so and couldnt find pics. I also tried the Anvil website and it looks like the malt basket sits pretty straight. However it's hard to tell if it's just a pic of the old unit with the ring or the new unit.
RufusBrewer
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I may be wrong on this . . . .
Pasteurization does not equal sanitatized and sanitatized does not equal sterile.
They are different levels of germ reduction/germ free. Where sterile is the true germ free, pasteurization is lowest and sanitized is between the two.
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Yeah- hard to tell the angle but someone said another all-in-one kettle does this.
I like a simple solution Brian Short-Circuited made:
Ogilthorpe2
The man in the black pajamas
Sanitizing and Sterilizing are definitely on different levels, but I’m pretty sure pasteurization and Sanitizing on on par with each other.
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Chemically it is called sanitization. Heat treated is called Pasteurization. Terms define the nature of the treatment, but the end result is the same.
LagerLover78
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Thanks mgb. The guy I spoke to at my LHBS said that he wasn't sure which malt basket would be included with the units they're getting in this week. If its the one with the ring/triangular feet, I'll definately be looking for these.
I'm still curious to see how the new malt basket with the bolt on brackets mounts to the boiler like the one pictured on the Anvil website. Check out the Anvil website and look at the pics for the 10.5 gallon unit. Pic 4 (shows the new bracket design on the malt basket), pic 5 (shows how the 2 brackets hang on the boiler), and pic 7 (shows the whole deal from the front without a 3rd bracket). It appears to be pretty straight and stable. Was just looking for a visual of what's holding it upright.
RufusBrewer
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It looks as though there are just two brackets. When you hang the malt basked, the basket is offset (not concentric) with the and boiler. If you had a third bracket opposite the two brackets, you would not be able to hang the basket AND put the basket in the boil tank.
I expect the basket must lean forward some and the bottom of the edge of the basket hits the side of the boiler.
I am scheduled to get my 10.5 gallon Foundry delivered tomorrow. I am anxious to see if I get this version.
I expect the basket must lean forward some and the bottom of the edge of the basket hits the side of the boiler.
I am scheduled to get my 10.5 gallon Foundry delivered tomorrow. I am anxious to see if I get this version.
Noob_Brewer
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While I agree with you, it might not be the case depending on how wide the bracket is relative to the lip of the kettle. The top most part of the kettle is a tad wider than the overall kettle so that the ring has a shelf to sit. So its quite possible that the brackets are snug on the kettle top and the malt-pipe rests completely vertical due to the malt-pipe side resting against the slightly narrower diameter part of the kettle. Keep us posted!
LagerLover78
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I'd be curious to see what you get too!
LagerLover78
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Was looking closer at pics on their website...you may be on to something!
Hard to tell from the pics they provide though...shrouded in mystery!
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Worse case on the FB group John Blichmann said soon a retrofit kit would be available. He didn't say gratus but who knows. There was a recent post on FB where a guy had the basket drop in and splashed out close to a gallon of wort and it left a nice scratch in the kettle.
Whelp when mine gets in I'll be sure to post a pic. Mine was ordered a few days back.
LagerLover78
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Bakerking31
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Here is the new basket, I just got it last night and didnt realize they changed the design. I was thinking they forgot a part until I put everything together. It sits vertically pretty straight because the inside wall is thin at the top and gets thicker an inch or so down.
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Very nice! What's your first brew going to be?
(toss those hoses - many have had issues with them)
Bakerking31
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The hoses for the chiller or the pump?
First brew is going to be More Beer's obSession IPA. Mostly just because I made it as my last extract which I just finished and I want to see how the all grain system is different. And its a really cheap one to make so if I screw up my first batch its no big loss. Prior to this I only did extract kits (maybe 8-10 5gal kits).
RufusBrewer
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My 10.5 gallon Foundry arrived. I dug into it enough to see it came with the side brackets, not the lift up and turn 45° and rest on the ring design.
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