Anvil Foundry 240V with NEMA 6-30

[x3la]

I want to use my Anvil Foundry with 240V in the USA.

My apartment has NEMA 6-30 sockets without GFCI for the heating/air conditioning units:



This reference chart states NEMA 6-30 configurations are grounded and a grounded plug is specified as a requirement in the Anvil Foundry manual.

My current plan is to:

• Cut off the NEMA 5-15 plug supplied with the Foundry and replace it with a 6-30 plug
• Purchase a 6-30 extension cord with a suitable gauge of wire such as this and cut it and wire in an inline UL/CE certified GFCI device like this.

Does this sound like a sensible approach? Am I missing anything? safety is my primary concern here.

I am in a rented apartment and so have no control over the fuse panel.

 

[doug293cz]

The linked in-line GFCI is only rated for 125V, so is not suitable for use with 240V. It's also designed to use 12AWG wire, so may have difficulty fitting 10AWG wire into the terminals, and the wire OD might be too large for the case.

Brew on

 

[x3la]

The linked in-line GFCI is only rated for 125V, so is not suitable for use with 240V. It's also designed to use 12AWG wire, so may have difficulty fitting 10AWG wire into the terminals, and the wire OD might be too large for the case.

Brew on

Thanks. So with the exception of picking an unsuitable in-line GFCI device, is this the correct approach? I should be picking 20A?

The 240V ones here look like they would be more suitable: 20 Amp Inline GFCI

 

[doug293cz]

I want to use my Anvil Foundry with 240V in the USA.

My apartment has NEMA 6-30 sockets without GFCI for the heating/air conditioning units:

View attachment 760118View attachment 760117

This reference chart states NEMA 6-30 configurations are grounded and a grounded plug is specified as a requirement in the Anvil Foundry manual.

My current plan is to:

• Cut off the NEMA 5-15 plug supplied with the Foundry and replace it with a 6-30 plug
• Purchase a 6-30 extension cord with a suitable gauge of wire such as this and cut it and wire in an inline UL/CE certified GFCI device like this.

Does this sound like a sensible approach? Am I missing anything? safety is my primary concern here.

I am in a rented apartment and so have no control over the fuse panel.

Depending on version (age) of the Foundry, it may come with a 120V plug, or a 240V plug and a 240V receptacle/120V plug adapter pigtail. Which do you have? A pic of the power cord plug blades would be good for confirmation.

Thanks. So with the exception of picking an unsuitable in-line GFCI device, is this the correct approach? I should be picking 20A?

The 240V ones here look like they would be more suitable: 20 Amp Inline GFCI

Yes, a 20A, 240V GFCI is adequate for the Foundry. Yes your approach is suitable. Your finished GFCI extension cord should have a NEMA 6-30 plug on one end, and a NEMA 6-20 receptacle on the other to prevent an higher current draw device from being plugged into it. You should put a NEMA 6-20 plug on the existing Foundry power cord. You can use 12AWG wire in your extension cord, as the Foundry draws only about 12A @ 240V.

Brew on

 

[x3la]

Depending on version (age) of the Foundry, it may come with a 120V plug, or a 240V plug and a 240V receptacle/120V plug adapter pigtail. Which do you have? A pic of the power cord plug blades would be good for confirmation.

Yes, a 20A, 240V GFCI is adequate for the Foundry. Yes your approach is suitable. Your finished GFCI extension cord should have a NEMA 6-30 plug on one end, and a NEMA 6-20 receptacle on the other to prevent an higher current draw device from being plugged into it. You should put a NEMA 6-20 plug on the existing Foundry power cord. You can use 12AWG wire in your extension cord, as the Foundry draws only about 12A @ 240V.

Brew on

Thanks! This all makes perfect sense (I'm from the UK so just getting familiarised with the different configurations).

I haven't received the Foundry yet. I ordered directly from Anvil so I would assume the latest version; if so, are they now 240V NEMA 6-20 hard wired? that would be very convenient!

Can 12AWG be used both sides of the inline 20A GFCI? or should I use 10AWG on the 30A receptacle side? What's the maximum length of extension cord I can use after the in-line GFCI? is 10ft okay?

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks! This all makes perfect sense (I'm from the UK so just getting familiarised with the different configurations).

I haven't received the Foundry yet. I ordered directly from Anvil so I would assume the latest version; if so, are they now 240V NEMA 6-20 hard wired? that would be very convenient!

Can 12AWG be used both sides of the inline 20A GFCI? or should I use 10AWG on the 30A receptacle side? What's the maximum length of extension cord I can use after the in-line GFCI? is 10ft okay?

According to the website today, they are shipping with NEMA 6-20 plugs, and 120V adapter plugs.

You can use 12AWG on both sides, and 10 ft is ok. If you were going more than 25 ft, then going to 10AWG would be a good idea.

Brew on

 

[x3la]

According to the website today, they are shipping with NEMA 6-20 plugs, and 120V adapter plugs.

You can use 12AWG on both sides, and 10 ft is ok. If you were going more than 25 ft, then going to 10AWG would be a good idea.

Brew on

Brilliant. Thank you so much for your help. Very kind of you!

 

[Brewdog80]

You can actually use 14 gauge up to a 50 ft run. 10 is way overkill for 15amps which the anvils don't get to. Way easier to work with and actually find an extension cord to adapt.
You have to realize that 120v has the whole amperage going through one wire, 240 uses 2.

 

[doug293cz]

...
You have to realize that 120v has the whole amperage going through one wire, 240 uses 2.

This is WRONG. With 120V the full current flows thru the hot wire and (in the opposite direction) thru the neutral wire. With 240V, the full current flows in both hot wires, again in opposite directions for the two wires. It both cases, it's' the ground wire that carries no current.

Current flows thru a continuous loop from the power source, thru the load, and back to the power source. The two wires comprise the loop wiring on either side of the load.

Brew on

 

[Brewdog80]

Then how does 240v get away with roughly half the wire size? Each hot is 180 out of phase and loops through the third wire. You have a two wires for 120v the hot and the neutral. ignore ground, it is for safety only. 240 has two hot wires and one neutral shared by both. But yes, my initial explanation is an error.
But the flow is the same not in. opposite direction.. AC is a waveform.

 

[doug293cz]

Then how does 240v get away with roughly half the wire size? Each hot is 180 out of phase and loops through the third wire. You have a two wires for 120v the hot and the neutral. ignore ground, it is for safety only. 240 has two hot wires and one neutral shared by both. But yes, my initial explanation is an error.
But the flow is the same not in. opposite direction.. AC is a waveform.

It doesn't. You need the same wire size to support the same amount of current.

With 240V you can use smaller wire to deliver the same amount of power. For example 2400W power requires 10A of current @ 240V, but 20A of current @ 120V (P = I * V).

Brew on

 

[x3la]

According to the website today, they are shipping with NEMA 6-20 plugs, and 120V adapter plugs.

You can use 12AWG on both sides, and 10 ft is ok. If you were going more than 25 ft, then going to 10AWG would be a good idea.

Brew on

Do I need to be concerned about "over current protection" with this set up?

Is a "spa panel" the better option? and if so, why?

 

[doug293cz]

Do I need to be concerned about "over current protection" with this set up?

Is a "spa panel" the better option? and if so, why?

Ideally, you would add over current protection appropriate for the wire size. 20A for 12AWG, 15A for 14AWG, etc. However, we routinely plug cords rated for 10A or less into 15A and 20A outlets without additional over current protection. There is much less fire risk because the wires are not buried inside a wall (and that is what the code requirements assume.)

You could do a spa panel, but then you need to find a 20A GFCI breaker that fits the spa panel, or you need to add a 2 pole, 240V, 20A breaker in series with a higher amp GFCI breaker inside the spa panel.

Brew on

 

[x3la]

Ideally, you would add over current protection appropriate for the wire size. 20A for 12AWG, 15A for 14AWG, etc. However, we routinely plug cords rated for 10A or less into 15A and 20A outlets without additional over current protection. There is much less fire risk because the wires are not buried inside a wall (and that is what the code requirements assume.)

You could do a spa panel, but then you need to find a 20A GFCI breaker that fits the spa panel, or you need to add a 2 pole, 240V, 20A breaker in series with a higher amp GFCI breaker inside the spa panel.

Brew on

Can over current protection be found in the GFCI itself? I note that this in-line device has "Overload Current six times rated current" but I am not sure if that's what I'm looking for..

 

[doug293cz]

Can over current protection be found in the GFCI itself? I note that this in-line device has "Overload Current six times rated current" but I am not sure if that's what I'm looking for..

That is not max current limiting like a fuse or a breaker. It just means that currents 6 times their rated capacity won't immediately damage them.

Brew on

 

[x3la]

So the real benefit of a spa panel/box/disconnect is simply the ability to chain all necessary components together in a safe environment?

 

[doug293cz]

So the real benefit of a spa panel/box/disconnect is simply the ability to chain all necessary components together in a safe environment?

Pretty much.

Brew on

 

[x3la]

Pretty much.

Brew on

If I wanted to do this as a spa panel/box/disconnect, just to cover the "over current" scenario, are these the only two components I would need?

20A GFCI with protection from overload, short-circuit, and Class A Ground Fault

Box with 2 spaces for the GFCI

Is there any reason that over current protection isn't just built into in-line GFCI?

 

[doug293cz]

Can't tell from the HD website if those two are compatible or not, but the box doesn't look like a typical spa panel. I don't think the breakers are designed to be used where they might be subject to splashing, and that box does not provide any splash shielding, so I would recommend against that box.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem plugging a 12AWG cord into a 30A breaker protected outlet, as long as the receptacle on the cord was 20A rated, so that a more than 20A device could not be plugged into the cord. The Foundry will limit the max current, unless there is a short somewhere. In the case of a short, the fault current is very likely to be enough to trip the 30A panel breaker, before the 12AWG wire can overheat. If not, the smoke coming from the Foundry should make you want to manually switch off the breaker at the panel (best choice) or pull the plug (which may involve sparking.)

Brew on

 

[x3la]

I've now successfully brewed a batch at 240V and thought I'd share the list of components I purchased:

• 20 Amp, 240 Volt, Manual Reset, 25' Flying Lead PGFI-2202N (pricey, but these are currently hard to find)
• NEMA 6-30p (plugs into the wall receptacle. Connected to the input of the in-line GFCI)
• NEMA 6-20r (connected to the output of the in-line GFCI)
• NEMA 6-20p (cut the Foundry NEMA 5-15 120V plug off and replace with this)

I also purchased an adaptor which allows me to switch to a 120V NEMA 5-15 should I need to.



This setup seems more sensible than some solutions whereby the 120V plug remains connected and is inserted into a 240V 5-15 receptacle.

Interestingly, the next version of the Foundry (V10) will come factory fitted with a NEMA 6-30 and preconfigured to 240V and supplied with a 120V adaptor cable.

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/UpdatedManuals/ANV-Foundry_V10.pdf