Another "white mold" question

[Con-Rad]

Hey all,

My cider has been in secondary for a couple months, and after maybe 2 months or so i got a wrinkly white layer of something over the cider in all 4 of my carboys. I know i might have too much headspace, but this hasn't happened in previous batches. It still smells fine, pretty good in fact. Here are some photos:





Any input? The general consensus i've read here is that if it smells good, it is good, but i figured i'd put up a couple photos.

Thanks!

conrad

 

[MarkKF]

Where all four cider started at the same time? Or did you do something to all of them on the same day, like taste or check s.g.?

 

[Yooper]

That's definitely a pellicle from infection. It's hard to see in the photo, but it looks like a lot of headspace, and that is probably the cause.

 

[MarkKF]

That's definitely a pellicle from infection. It's hard to see in the photo, but it looks like a lot of headspace, and that is probably the cause.

Does the headspace cause it or just promote it? I mean with proper sanitation and an airlock how does it get in there?

 

[CorporateHippie]

Air born pathogens my friend. unless you purged the space with Co2...anything in the air is now in your cider. Doesn't mean this is a dumper...may turn out great with a slight tartness

 

[clone63]

Does the headspace cause it or just promote it? I mean with proper sanitation and an airlock how does it get in there?

Too much headspace is not a guaranteed, direct cause of infection. It promotes it, in that it provides lots of air for aerobic bacteria to breath and float around in.

It doesn't really 'get' in there, it already is in there. There's a gazillion different bacteria flying around in just a few cubic inches of air (well, might be an exaggeration but there's a lot) so with all that open air in the carboy, there's a chance some acetobacter/lacto/pedio/whatevs is vigorous enough to have survived the transition and start breeding in the cider. Every time you open it, test it, etc. you add a slight risk of infection. Proper sanitation helps prevent this, but there is never a 0% chance of infection. Generally, most airborne things have a hard time taking hold of a finished ferment because of the alcohol and pH level, so even with poor sanitation, a lot of brews come out fine.

 

[Yooper]

Too much headspace is not a guaranteed, direct cause of infection. It promotes it, in that it provides lots of air for aerobic bacteria to breath and float around in.

It doesn't really 'get' in there, it already is in there. There's a gazillion different bacteria flying around in just a few cubic inches of air (well, might be an exaggeration but there's a lot) so with all that open air in the carboy, there's a chance some acetobacter/lacto/pedio/whatevs is vigorous enough to have survived the transition and start breeding in the cider. Every time you open it, test it, etc. you add a slight risk of infection. Proper sanitation helps prevent this, but there is never a 0% chance of infection. Generally, most airborne things have a hard time taking hold of a finished ferment because of the alcohol and pH level, so even with poor sanitation, a lot of brews come out fine.

Right, and topping up means no headspace, except for that one inch, and generally that means infection cannot take hold in such a tiny amount. The key is topping up, always, to the narrowest part of the carboy or racking to a smaller carboy if needed to reduce headspace. Sanitation is imperative, and many of us use campden (sulfites) in small amounts to reduce the risks of oxidation and infection even with topping up and being very sanitary.

 

[Con-Rad]

Thanks for the replies all.

I left the headspace as it is because i was worried about some stories i've heard about bubbling over when the yeast is active. In the future i should decrease my headspace because i haven't had super active yeast.

I did start all the carboys at the same time, although there are two different batches with different fruit in it for the secondary ferment.

I also figured that even with the headspace, they'd be safe because of the CO2 that the yeast gives off would purge the carboy. Oh well. live and learn. Good thing we like tart cider. It's going to be bottled this weekend!

conrad

 

[MarkKF]

You can start with more headspace but as soon as fermentation slows you need to move it to a container that's full or top it off.