Another Lindeman's Framboise Attempt

[Veinman]

Well my story starts the same as most of these threads I've been brewing awhile and SWMBO doesn't like any of my beer but happens to love Lindman's Framboise which runs about $7/bottle in my neck of the woods so hoping to brew some to appease her and save some cash.

The Ingredients:
4 lbs Pilsner Malt
4 lbs Wheat Malt
1 lb Flaked Wheat
4 AAU of Saaz hops that are "oven-aged"
Wyeast 3278 Lambic blend
8-10 lbs of Raspberries

This is a slightly modified version of the BYO recipe here: http://***********/stories/recipes/...ian-lambic-and-sour-ale/1781-lindemans-lambic

the main change is that I'm not using a clean Ale yeast for initial fermentation straight to the blend. Will mash at 154 for 60 minutes and add raspberries after 2-3 weeks. At bottling I will compare to Lindman's and might add an acid (lactic?) to get more tartness and will likely have raspberry juice concentrate available when serving.

Couple questions:
1. Am I even close to Lindman's?
2. I have added fruit before where I secondary on top of the fruit in the case of lambics is it better to add fruit to the primary to keep the max amount of the yeast blend around for a more sour effect?
3. I know that lambic blend eats about every sugar known so backsweetening is not an option however could I:
a. Kill the lambic blend with P-Metasulphite (does it or some other chemical kill all of the Lambic blend) and then
b. Add a clean champagne yeast that won't eat lactose thus allowing me to backsweeten the finished product?

I Don't keg as of yet so was thinking killing the yeast once they've produced the lambic flavour then killing them and using clean yeast to bottle carb might work.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Couple questions:
1. Am I even close to Lindman's?
2. I have added fruit before where I secondary on top of the fruit in the case of lambics is it better to add fruit to the primary to keep the max amount of the yeast blend around for a more sour effect?
3. I know that lambic blend eats about every sugar known so backsweetening is not an option however could I:
a. Kill the lambic blend with P-Metasulphite (does it or some other chemical kill all of the Lambic blend) and then
b. Add a clean champagne yeast that won't eat lactose thus allowing me to backsweeten the finished product?

1. Not really. Lindeman's backsweetens, so your brew will likely be more sour than theirs. I think your best bet to try to get to a Lindeman's-like product would be to brew your lambic with no fruit and then add a sweet raspberry juice in the glass.

2. You could do either, but if it were me I would add fruit to the primary and keep all your bugs together.

3. No. Well, you could use sulphites, but your problem will be that once you add it you can't take it back out. So if you add more yeast, they will also be affected by the sulphites.

Here are your options:

1. Start kegging. That would let you use sulphites and still carbonate.

2. As I said above, make your lambic and then add juice in the glass. The benefit you get there is you can enjoy the lambic straight or add different fruits and fruit combinations to see what you like. I honestly think that's going to give you the taste-wise closest thing to Lindeman's.

3. I'm going to preface this by saying it is seriously DANGEROUS and ill-advised. Everybody else will tell you this is dangerous and not to do it. What you could do is let the lambic ferment out to the point it is still sweet enough for your preferences or you have backsweetened it to your preference. Then bottle with priming sugar. Let it sit for about 3-4 days at room temperature, and then put the entire batch of bottles in the fridge, and keep it there. You can obviously see the DANGER involved in this process. It risks creating bottle bombs that could cause serious harm, especially if they overcarbonate before they get in the fridge. I do this with cider and graff and have not experienced problems, but like I said, there is a SERIOUS RISK OF HARM. I have no idea if the lambic mix would tear through sugar faster than straight saccharomyces and blow up. So, you really need to carefully consider that risk if you chose to go that route, because I don't know what could happen.

 

[ryane]

Couple questions:
1. Am I even close to Lindman's?
2. I have added fruit before where I secondary on top of the fruit in the case of lambics is it better to add fruit to the primary to keep the max amount of the yeast blend around for a more sour effect?
3. I know that lambic blend eats about every sugar known so backsweetening is not an option however could I:
a. Kill the lambic blend with P-Metasulphite (does it or some other chemical kill all of the Lambic blend) and then
b. Add a clean champagne yeast that won't eat lactose thus allowing me to backsweeten the finished product?

I Don't keg as of yet so was thinking killing the yeast once they've produced the lambic flavour then killing them and using clean yeast to bottle carb might work.

1 - No, not with your recipe, as was noted lindemans is backsweetened
2 - you want to add fruit to a lambic after about 6-12mos, primary is fine
3a - no, sulfite will kill bacteria but only knock down yeast, sorbate will stop everything but in no way will you be able to bottle carb then
3b - lactose DOES NOT ADD ANY real amount of sweetness, this is a huge homebrewing myth, to measure sweetness sucrose aka table sugar is given a value of 100, lactose on this same scale is 16, approximately 6 times less sweet, so if you add 1# of lactose to a 5gal batch in terms of sweetness you are essentially adding 2.5oz of sugar to the beer, which is like pissing in the ocean

To clone lindemans, you shouldnt even be thinking about using a lambic culture, go try something like cantillon or lindemans cuvee rene, both are extremely sour and funky, and when I say funky think goat, sweaty, horsey etc, these are the signature flavors of a lambic, and by using a lambic blend youll have these in your finished product (and a finished beer btw takes at least 12mos or more)

lindemans fruit "lambics" are basically slightly alcoholic soda, thats why women like them soooo much, to brew one yourself I would suggest

A lowish gravity extremely sweet wheat beer (healthly dose of crystal and high mash temp), then add your fruit, ferment out, this will dry the beer some due to increased alcohol, rack to bottling bucket add lactic acid to taste, remember it will be perceived as a bit more sour once it is carbed, if necessary supplement with some fruit extract for more flavor

if this is not sweet enough you can always add some simple syrup to the glass when drinking, in the end this is your best bet to get a lindemans like product sans kegging capabilities