Another, "hows my crush?" thread

[calebstringer]

I guys, I've been struggling with my efficiency and hitting OG.

What's your opinion on this crush? It's from a MM 2.0 3 roller

 

[Brewnoob1]

From the small picture, looks ok to me

 

[Golddiggie]

What did you set the gap to? It looks like the grain was crushed, but (as already pointed out) with the small picture, it's impossible to say anything more. If you didn't check/set the gap, do so. If you don't have a set of feeler gauges, go to Sears (or your local auto parts store) and pick up a set.

 

[calebstringer]

stupid HBT app. Sorry bout that guys. I thought it uploaded a large file. Lets try this:

This came from a 21lb grain bill of 1lb crystal 10, 4lbs victory, 16lbs 2row.

Target og @ 70% eff was 1.050.

OG was 1.045, corrected for temp. My volumes were spot on as well....im getting frustrated....

Golddiggie: I am going to get a set of feeler gauges and measure the gap. Im currently running the factory setting which is supposed to be .042ish I believe...

 

[bob1852]

My volumes were spot on as well

How are you measuring volume?

Are you correcting for different volumes based on different temperatures throughout the process?

 

[Dan]

It looks like there are some hulls still intact. The gap sounds kind of large, my Barley Crusher factory setting was .039.

 

[calebstringer]

 

[calebstringer]

How are you measuring volume?

Are you correcting for different volumes based on different temperatures throughout the process?

Im using the sight glass on my Boilermakers.

As far as correcting for temp, I use the 4% shrink rule in beersmith.

Im definitely gonna grab some feeler gauges tonight

 

[Golddiggie]

I'd set it to .039" for the next batch and see how things come out.

I'd also get a refractometer for at least your OG readings. Get one with ATC (automatic temperature compensation) and you don't need to worry about it.

My first refractometer was one that Bobby_M sells. I've since gone and spent the extra money to get far more accurate refractometers. Using a refractometer also means the amount you need to use for a gravity reading is reduced by a large factor. I reserve 1oz from the batch before pitching the yeast, and another 1oz sample post fermentation. Even that is far more than I need for readings. Compare that with how much you need for your hyrdometer.

 

[huhwha]

Ditto on the refractometer. Just be sure to calibrate it often with distilled water.

 

[calebstringer]

What refractometer do you recommend?

 

[Golddiggie]

What refractometer do you recommend?

Don't know what your budget level is, but these are the two I have for beer. Warning: neither of these are 'cheap' or low cost items.

0-32 Brix
0-20 Brix

I like the 0-20 due to it's .1 increment. If my target OG is above 20 Brix (or close to it) then I use the other one. I also have one that goes above 32 Brix, to test high sugar content items before using them. Things like fruit, juices, or even a must.

 

[huhwha]

FWIW, I have one similar to this http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brix-specific-gravity-refractometer-w-atc.html. It seems to like frequent calibrations, but once you know that, it's ok.

 

[Golddiggie]

I check mine when the temperature is more than a few degrees different from last time I used it.

I do like the adjustment ring on mine, compared with the screw in others. Makes for much easier adjustments when needed.

 

[scottland]

Definitely go tighter. Not too much, but tighten it up until you don't see any kernels in one piece

 

[bottlebomber]

You can go tighter. I'm not sure if that's all of your problem though, as that is a pretty good crush (better than most HBS would provide). I run mine through the Grain Gobbler twice, once at about .060 and then again at .035. Nailing 80% every time in a Rubbermaid.

 

[calebstringer]

Thanks for all the responses. I checked my gap yesterday and it is set at .042. IIRC, with the triple roller mill, the first roller crushes as about .070 and then goes to the second crush, which is adjustable. So I should try .039?

Ive become buddies with a local head brewer for a small brewery and he recommended setting alot coarser....around .060 or so. That is what his mill is at and he is seeing around 80% on his Sabco setup.

One other piece of info, is I do recirculate while mashing. Would that affect what gap I should crush at?

 

[Golddiggie]

IMO, the person at the small brewery is feeding you a line. OR their system is setup to handle the huge crush size. Look through these boards to see what the crush sizes tend to be. The majority are at either .039" or smaller. NOT larger.

I would do a few batches at .039" to see how it's different from the other batch. Then see how tight you can get the crush, without getting a stuck sparge. Even going down by .001" at a time until you have an issue. OR check with Blichmann (if that's your mash tun) to see what they recommend as a minimum crush size with their false bottom. If you're using something else for the mash tun, then check to see what the smallest recommended crush size is, and be sure to not go to (or smaller than) that size.

 

[calebstringer]

Just out of curiosity, how would a system need to be setup to handle a coarser crush?

Also, I do have a 20g blichmann boilermaker with their falsebottom. I couldn't find any stats, so I emailed blichmann and am waiting for their response.

 

[Golddiggie]

The manifold/false bottom could have larger holes in it. Although I suspect he's really just feeding you a line of trub.

You should be fine at .039" with the Blichmann gear, but a confirmation email would be nice (you should have the answer from Blichmann soon enough). Especially since .039" is a pretty common crush size.

 

[calebstringer]

now Im even more confused...lol

Hi Caleb,

I personally use a two-roller malt mill with a fixed 0.045" gap and achieve mash efficiency in the 78-82% range. You may choose to use an adjustable mill and find what works best for you experimentally. Either way, this should give you a reasonable starting point.

Cheers,

Pete
Blichmann Engineering

 

[Golddiggie]

I think you need to find out what's the gap of the false bottom, so that you don't crush the grain smaller than that. Not what the person from Blichmann has his (sounds like non-adjustable) grain mill at. Since you can set the gap of your mill, that's the information you need. Otherwise, you could set the gap to a point where you're going to get a seriously stuck sparge.

 

[whitehause]

Crush looks a bit course to me. I have my MM2 set at 38 and get a nice crush. When you pick up a handful of grain, you might see a couple of whole grains, but not more than that. In your pick,it looks like there are lots that aren't crushed well.

 

[whitehause]

Also...take a pair of pliers and snug the wing nuts. I found the first time using mine that the one side kept getting lose until I snugged it down more than finger tight. It was letting uncrushed grain get through on the one end.

 

[whitehause]

duplicate

 

[calebstringer]

thanks for all the suggestions! I wish I could brew tomorrow and try them out....if only somebody else would work for me. lol

 

[EROK]

My Barley Crusher is set now at .036 which is giving me close to 78% mash efficiency. As some including Denny say "Crush till your scared" If you don't get stuck sparges then lower gap setting incrementally until you do get a stuck sparge then back off some.

For me it's about consistency not max efficiency. I only get brew house efficiency of about 64%. But I can duplicate it every time.

 

[calebstringer]

My Barley Crusher is set now at .036 which is giving me close to 78% mash efficiency. As some including Denny say "Crush till your scared" If you don't get stuck sparges then lower gap setting incrementally until you do get a stuck sparge then back off some.

For me it's about consistency not max efficiency. I only get brew house efficiency of about 64%. But I can duplicate it every time.

I finally got to brew a batch yesterday. 10 gallons of Caribou slobber. Beersmith gave me an SG of 1.050 with 11.7g post boil volume. I ended up with 1.045 with 11.3g post boil.

Also, following my mash and batch sparge, I ended up a gallon short in the BK, so I had to top off with 1 gallon.

I set my mill to .038 and was really flirting with a stuck sparge. I had a small puddle of wort on top of my grain bed. I forgot to take a pic of it. I broke up the grain, just to see how much liquid was held in. Maybe only two cups...so it wasnt alot.

Here is a pic of my recent grain crush.

So I know I need to tweak my equipment profile a little more, but my extraction still seems low? BS called for 26 qt dough in, and 9 gallon sparge. I held a perfect 153 for 60min. Also, I'm definitely adjusting my mash ratio to 1.5...I didnt know it was still set at 1.25
Grain bill:

-- 18 lbs. Rahr 2-row pale
--1.5 lbs. Briess Caramel 60L
--1 lbs. Briess Caramel 80L
--.5 lbs. Fawcett Pale Chocolate
--.25 lbs. English Black Malt

 

[kh54s10]

It sounds to me like the new crush is good. You will now need to end up with the proper volumes in order to get your efficiency up.

I don't think that water on top of the grain is considered a stuck sparge. A stuck sparge would be that little or no wort is coming through the false bottom/braid.

When you vorlauf all the very fine particles in there are making a layer on top of the grain bed. Poking holes through this layer will allow the water to drain through. I have this frequently.

 

[calebawilson]

I have left my Barley Crusher at the factory setting and have been getting anywhere from 75 to 80 I might tighten mine up a little see if I can improve my eff some.