downtown3641
Well-Known Member
Because I feel more of a connection with small brewers. It's not always about the product.
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Another brand under A-B's Porfolio, say goodbye to Blue Point Brewing
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Because I feel more of a connection with small brewers. It's not always about the product.
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Well, ok, I and my family make our buying decisions based upon the product. If we like it we buy it, if not we don't.
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downtown3641
Well-Known Member
With most things, my family is the same. Beer is an exception.
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ShadyBrewer
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Maybe it would be easier to deal if they didn't have an April's fools joke in 2011 saying they were bought by miller coors. After the backlash they got, they said " we are independently owned. With no corporate ties. Ever".
That's why so many local long islanders are upset with them and won't continue to support them.
It's also not about " big business" sucking. It's InBev that sucks. They have terrible business practices that hurt craft beer.
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That's why so many local long islanders are upset with them and won't continue to support them.
It's also not about " big business" sucking. It's InBev that sucks. They have terrible business practices that hurt craft beer.
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It's in bicycling distance from my house so I'll be sad if the local community participation goes away. They hold home brewing events and have hosted local home brew clubs. It's great walking around the brewery, talking to the brewers and trying some of the more experimental batches.
Having said that, good for them if the built and sold a successful business. If the beer stays the same (at least the staples) and they remain part of the local beer scene, I have no problems with AB ownership. It's not like there isn't another 20 craft brewers on LI that will provide competition and some may make a similar move some day.
The fact that Goose Island is actually now distributed far and wide and IMO still produces a good product gives me hope. I'll certainly take a Toasted lager over the standard BMC swill any day. If I can do that outside of the region, so much the better.
Having said that, good for them if the built and sold a successful business. If the beer stays the same (at least the staples) and they remain part of the local beer scene, I have no problems with AB ownership. It's not like there isn't another 20 craft brewers on LI that will provide competition and some may make a similar move some day.
The fact that Goose Island is actually now distributed far and wide and IMO still produces a good product gives me hope. I'll certainly take a Toasted lager over the standard BMC swill any day. If I can do that outside of the region, so much the better.
I wanted to apologize to you, I misunderstood your posting that you were against big companies. Will you please forgive me.
If I can leave a helpful hint. There are a lot of people who are anti big business in all things, which I think is a very wrong position to have. Many people against big beer fall into this, they are against big anything. It really helps people like me understand you and where you are coming from better if you let us know that you are not against all big companies receiving your money just InBev. I will still disagree with you but now it is just a matter of opinion.
Anyway, the main reason for this is to apologize for misreading you and labeling you as something you are not.
Craig
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Pilgarlic
Well-Known Member
Good for Blue Point. They scored a big financial win. But it is the very definition of "selling out", whether that has negative connotations for you or not. Personally I don't begrudge Blue Point the opportunity to cash in. They started, built and sold a business. Kudos. As to the likelihood that the beer will change, it probably will. AB's real expertise isn't in brewing beer, it's in marketing beer to the masses who have no real discerning taste for beer. As they face the choice of spending a dollar on process or ingredients or spending a dollar on marketing, they will choose the latter. And that may well be the best choice for their bottom line. Kudos to them. I don't care. AB was attracted to Blue Point because Blue Point is on the "shoulder" between macro yellow fizz beers and quality craft beers. That which made AB interested in the brand makes me uninterested in the brand. Good luck to all of them. They have little to do with me and my interest in great beer.
I'm somewhat in that boat myself (as is SWMBO) in that we don't like some of the big business practices, and those who don't seem to care much about anything except themselves just don't get our business.
We'd much rather spend our money with a mom and pop store doing what they can than to support a company that believes in stifling small businesses.
InBev and WalMart are the only ones I know of by name that have extremely bad business practices. Not to say that we buy from ones we aren't aware of.
But we still shop in big stores. It takes a lot to get big, but doesn't mean you did everything wrong to get there.
We'd much rather spend our money with a mom and pop store doing what they can than to support a company that believes in stifling small businesses.
InBev and WalMart are the only ones I know of by name that have extremely bad business practices. Not to say that we buy from ones we aren't aware of.
But we still shop in big stores. It takes a lot to get big, but doesn't mean you did everything wrong to get there.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
The whole corporations = evil mentality is a little short-sighted. Take Walmart. The main complaint is low wages and a practice to keep workers hours low enough to qualify for benefits. Yet thousands of companies do this, including mom and pop stores! If a mom and pop stores doesn't grow, than most likely they can not afford to give decent, cost-of-living, wage increases each year. In other words, many small companies have the unfortunate and often unspoken rule that " we can hire you for x dollars but don't expect a raise...unless we expand or have a good year."
My buddy was a beer manager and a mom and pop liquor store for 6 years and left after they couldn't pay him hire than $15/hour! They physically could not expand in their store and had no plans on moving. Their is often a glass ceiling with smaller companies that will not satisfy a middle class worker who has been very loyal to the company.
Finally, I call shenanigans on the whole mom and pop = community. Walmart has been the largest charitable company in america every year, for nearly a decade. They donate more than exxon and apple, even though these companies have 3 times the profits. I've never heard someone say they can't get gas here because they don't support Exxon. And if there is any reason to hate apple its because of this "anti-hipster" stance and not because their solution to suicides in Chinese factories is to install nets to catch them.
Big businesses have big issues, but they can also accomplish a lot more things. Small businesses have issues too. They can often solve them by expanding. More money, means higher wages, more benefits and more employees, therefore supporting the community. There is just this strange American "goldilocks" zone we unconsciously have about business growth. We say, "yay" when our local brewery expands, and get excited about their new beer offerings, their events for the town, and that they highered your buddy. But at some magical, unwritten point, we subjectively say "oh, you sold out, your just a big company, or you shouldn't have merged with x brewery."
Its rather disingenuous....
My buddy was a beer manager and a mom and pop liquor store for 6 years and left after they couldn't pay him hire than $15/hour! They physically could not expand in their store and had no plans on moving. Their is often a glass ceiling with smaller companies that will not satisfy a middle class worker who has been very loyal to the company.
Finally, I call shenanigans on the whole mom and pop = community. Walmart has been the largest charitable company in america every year, for nearly a decade. They donate more than exxon and apple, even though these companies have 3 times the profits. I've never heard someone say they can't get gas here because they don't support Exxon. And if there is any reason to hate apple its because of this "anti-hipster" stance and not because their solution to suicides in Chinese factories is to install nets to catch them.
Big businesses have big issues, but they can also accomplish a lot more things. Small businesses have issues too. They can often solve them by expanding. More money, means higher wages, more benefits and more employees, therefore supporting the community. There is just this strange American "goldilocks" zone we unconsciously have about business growth. We say, "yay" when our local brewery expands, and get excited about their new beer offerings, their events for the town, and that they highered your buddy. But at some magical, unwritten point, we subjectively say "oh, you sold out, your just a big company, or you shouldn't have merged with x brewery."
Its rather disingenuous....
Pretty sure this is the literal example of selling out.
Example 1, Blue Point owners sold their business to InBev. Just the fact with no negative connotation.
Example 2, Blue Point owners sold out to InBev. Purely negative connotation referring to they gave up their principles for money.
This thread has been debating example 2. And no, this is not the literal example of that.
Pilgarlic
Well-Known Member
That's been your debate, for sure. But I see lots of people really not "debating" at all, but just sharing their thoughts. That's okay, too, I guess, huh?
davygoat2
Well-Known Member
They built a brand and sold it. Hope they have fun with their profits.
Can't see BluePoint getting better being under the InBev umbrella.
Can't see BluePoint getting better being under the InBev umbrella.
Shouldn't we be more interested and concerned to know the *real reasons* super large brewing companies, with no craft brew history or dedication whatsoever (like InBev), are buying up smallish craft ones, such as Blue Moon, Goose Island, Boulevard, and now Blue Point. It can be hardly based on profits. Could polluting or confusing the consumer market be a part of their strategy? In the past, before I became more beer educated, I've "accidentally" bought Shock Top and Blue Moon from the craft beer fridge not knowing their history or whose wallets got fatter. They're both very mediocre.
One reason I can come up with is that small craft breweries' owners could be concerned about continuation of their so successfully created brand, beyond their own life (Boulevard perhaps?). Who can they pass it on to so, with time, they're just more than a mere legacy? Large companies can both afford and provide such "service."
One reason I can come up with is that small craft breweries' owners could be concerned about continuation of their so successfully created brand, beyond their own life (Boulevard perhaps?). Who can they pass it on to so, with time, they're just more than a mere legacy? Large companies can both afford and provide such "service."
Actually, example one is the literal use of the term, example two would be the figurative. But, I was just giving you a hard time.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Isn't Boulevard owned by Duvel? And they also own Ommegang? I only bring this up because of the point I made in my previous post...at what size do companies/breweries become "evil?" Is one of the most respected trappist companies a corporate bully?
Goose Island's distribution has increased a lot since their purchase. Their Bourbon County line is phenomenal as its ever been.
Sierra Nevada opened a brewery on the East Coast due to demand...are they evil? Did they sell out? Certainly not west coast anymore. Didn't Lagunitas just expand to Chicago?
Goose Island's distribution has increased a lot since their purchase. Their Bourbon County line is phenomenal as its ever been.
Sierra Nevada opened a brewery on the East Coast due to demand...are they evil? Did they sell out? Certainly not west coast anymore. Didn't Lagunitas just expand to Chicago?
Pilgarlic
Well-Known Member
Just a point of info: Duvel isn't a Trappist brewer. And, yes, DuvelMoortgat does indeed own a bunch of labels, including Ommegang.
I don't know of any "evil" brewers. That's a bit of a straw man.
"Take Walmart. The main complaint is low wages and a practice to keep workers hours low enough to qualify for benefits."
My complaint with WalMart isn't so much that, but that they've gone into the small towns and ran the little guys out. They did this over and over as the little guys couldn't compete at all.
We prefer to support local/small business as we know they certainly need it more. And it's the American dream to operate your own business. Because of the higher cost to run a small operation it is harder to pay good wages and offer great medical care.
My complaint with WalMart isn't so much that, but that they've gone into the small towns and ran the little guys out. They did this over and over as the little guys couldn't compete at all.
We prefer to support local/small business as we know they certainly need it more. And it's the American dream to operate your own business. Because of the higher cost to run a small operation it is harder to pay good wages and offer great medical care.
To compare WalMart to a mom n pop business is silly. The small business owner certainly isn't taking home anywhere near the cash and benefits that the exec's running WalMart do, and I'd venture to guess their employees are less likely to be on government welfare programs to the same extent.
Yes, Boulevard is now owned by Duvel Moortgat, Belgium's 2nd largest brewery after InBev, with reportedly a yearly production 700,000 barrels, including all its subsidiaries. So they're pretty large, yet not a real giant like InBev/MC. I meant it as an illustration where a brewery (Boulevard) was bought by a way larger company. Yes, Duvel Moortgat do tailor primarily to the craft beer market, where InBev/MC don't.
Actually, example one is the literal use of the term, example two would be the figurative. But, I was just giving you a hard time.
Well played sir, well played.
if you personally want to put restrictions on who you buy from, saying you only want to buy from "small brewers" that is absolutely your right. and i guess you could quantify what a "small brewer" is to you. but for people to criticize breweries for not wanting to remain small is silly. if i owned a brewery i would want to get my beer out to as many people as i could as long as quality doesn't suffer. if quality does suffer than i think the complaints would be justified. we quickly are getting into an area where we are eating our young here.
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