American Wheat Gone Bad?

[chrisvaf]

Hey everyone. I'm still pretty new to homebrewing with 10 batches under my belt (last 6 have been all-grain). Up until my last batch everything has been going pretty smoothly and I have been consistent with my process. I'm very thorough with sanitation and my beers have been coming out really good. There seems to be something wrong with my last batch, an American Wheat (recipe below). The color is off (almost a copper color as you can see from the second attachment). At bottling time, the color looked as it should (first attachment). It still smells good, although the weird color may be playing tricks with my mind as the beer (at least to me) starts tasting flat towards the end of the beer (it is carbonated just fine). I can't put my finger on it but something tastes just a bit off.

This beer spent 3 weeks fermenting reaching a FG of 1.008. My efficiency was bad on this batch likely due to a bad crush. I dry-hopped for 7 days, cold crashed for 3 days, then bottled. Bottling day was on Sept. 16, 2016. I let it bottle condition for 4 weeks then cracked a few open only to find the color way off. I opened another 2 bottles last night. One was the same off color, and the other had incidentally not been capped properly. The interesting thing about the badly capped bottle is that the color of the beer was exactly as it should have been. The taste was good too, except that it was extremely under-carbonated (obviously).

Not sure if oxidation took place or if the batch is infected. As for oxidation, there was definitely no splashing - my process was identical to every other batch I have done. The one difference in this batch was that I cold crashed. In my 8 Gallon batch there were 5oz of dry hops (pellets).

Hoping someone can help me figure out what's going on with this batch.

Thanks!



12.6 oz Rice Hulls
10 lbs (2 Row)
8 lbs White Wheat Malt
1 lbs 14.2 oz Oats, Flaked
1.67 oz Magnum [12.40 %]
1.73 oz Amarillo [7.70 %]
2.00 oz Centennial [7.60 %]
4.50 tsp Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins)
1.50 tsp Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins)
4.00 oz Amarillo [7.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min
2 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
5.00 oz Amarillo [7.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0

Chris

 

[day_trippr]

Given the very clear history and the exceptional treatment of this particular batch versus the other 9, I'll put my money on oxidation.

Cold crashing introduces oxygen at a critical juncture - when the beer is most readily going to absorb it (ie: when it's cold, and the yeast have gone dormant).
Dropping the temperature of a fermentor causes the headspace gases and the liquid as well to contract pulling air into the vessel.

There've been a ton of discussions about this paradigm over the last year or so.
The easiest ways to avoid are to cold-crash in the fermentor under slight CO2 pressure (so as not to blow up said fermentor) or to rack to a keg while still at the end of fermentation temperature then seal the keg up and crash it under CO2 pressure.

I went with the former because I strive to maximize each batch to totally fill my kegs...

Cheers!

 

[chrisvaf]

Yeah I'm thinking oxidation as well. The reason I decided to cold crash this batch is because I typically dry hop quite a bit, and in my previous batch the bottling wand would get clogged from time to time by hop debris, so I figured I would eliminate that. Looks like I eliminated an entire batch instead.

One thing has me a little puzzled. Why is it that the improperly capped bottle had the perfect color? I would think it was getting exposed to even more oxygen, therefore would oxidize quicker.

 

[flars]

It is possible the CO2 being produced to carbonate the beer scrubbed the oxygen from the beer.

 

[petrolSpice]

If you cold crashed all of the batches and this is the only one that is off then clearly that is not the issue. Very interesting issue to say the least. I wish could be of more help.

I cold crash all of my beers and never had oxidation issues that I'm aware of. The amount of air sucked in is very small. However, using CO2 during crashing would be ideal. But you would need a 100% air tight fermenter or else you'll empty the CO2 bottle in no time. Also, targeting such low pressures with a normal CO2 regulator might be tough.

 

[Horseshoot]

I am fascinated by this as well. I wonder what caused the color change? I will follow this thread, because I am interested to see what others think.

Mike

 

[day_trippr]

If you cold crashed all of the batches and this is the only one that is off then clearly that is not the issue. [...]

[...]The one difference in this batch was that I cold crashed.[...]

Cheers!

 

[petrolSpice]

Cheers!

I need to read more carefully

Then that is definitely a suspect. Perhaps OP could brew another batch, split it in half, and cold crash one of them and not the other.

 

[chrisvaf]

I need to read more carefully

Then that is definitely a suspect. Perhaps OP could brew another batch, split it in half, and cold crash one of them and not the other.

Splitting a batch is a great idea. I had planned to brew a Stone Ruination clone next (repeat batch because it came out amazing) but I think repeating the American Wheat makes more sense.

It's funny because the original reason I cold-crashed this batch is because in previous batches, because I usually dry hop, I would put a paint strainer bag on the input of my auto-siphon when racking to the bottling bucket and I would notice tiny bubbles form eventually (when the bag would get clogged with floating hop debris). This had me concerned I would get oxidation. The batch prior to the American Wheat was my Stone Ruination clone and in that one I didn't put the paint strainer bag. No bubbles, but during bottling my bottling wand would get clogged and wouldn't release properly (causing overflow and some loss of beer).

So, naturally, I cold-crashed my next batch, bottling day was the smoothest ever, and the batch is ruined . Fun times.

 

[chrisvaf]

An update here as the batch that I had bottled at the time of writing this original thread (a Lagunita's IPA clone) is now ready. 3 pics attached - one racking to the bottling bucket, one in a small sample to measure gravity and the last one in the glass 3 weeks later.

I did not cold crash this one. You guys can chime in but the color still seems a bit off. Doesn't appear as "rust-colored" as the American Wheat but still not what I expect. As for the taste, it's not bad but something is just a bit off and tastes quite similar to my American Wheat (which is absurd).

This got me thinking that I either have some kind of bacteria in my equipment or something else is going on. Perhaps it's oxidation from using a spigot on my bottling bucket (I started doing this 3 batches ago)? Seems unlikely but that's the only change in process between this batch and what I was doing in batches prior to my Stone Ruination clone (which turned out fantastic - my best beer to date).

So, I decided to go through all of my notes from the American Wheat batch and I had written down something that I completely forgot about. I wanted to re-use 2 bottles from a homebrew that my friend gave me. He put labels on so I decided to soak them in a cleaning solution in order to peel off the label. I realized (too late) that I initially placed these bottles in my bottling bucket (yes I know - stupid me). After I saw the red ink oozing out of the labels I quickly removed them, rinsed the bucket well and cleaned well. Now I'm thinking that maybe some sort of chemical reaction occurred from this and the ink leeched into the plastic?

Please chime in if you have any thoughts. I'm now thinking I will purchase new bottling equipment (everything - bucket, auto-siphon, tubing, bottle wand, spigot) to see if that makes a difference in my next batch.

 

[dwhite60]

Be interesting if you could take a picture of the full glass on a white background. That gray granite finish darkens the contents up some.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[chrisvaf]

Be interesting if you could take a picture of the full glass on a white background. That gray granite finish darkens the contents up some.

All the Best,
D. White

Attached are 2 pics against a white background (the darker one being the sediment from the bottom of the bottle).

Some more observations as well.

1. That off taste that I was referring to is now more evident. Stale taste. Picture pouring a beer, drinking it, then leaving just a bit in your glass overnight. When you wake up in the morning and smell the glass you get that gross stale smell.
2. As you can see the sediment is gross, and there appears to be a lot of it, even though I cold-crashed.
3. As wrong as the color is, it's clear, which is completely crazy for a wheat beer. Having done the exact same recipe last year (and looking at pics of that) it doesn't even remotely resemble the same beer.

At this point, I'm thinking that maybe bottling through a spigot-to-bottling-wand is causing this (weird as I've read tons of threads where people do this and get great results). I just bottled another batch (IPA) where I switched back to bottling with the auto-siphon connected to a bottling wand. I bottled 2 in clear bottles to monitor the color in order to see if/when it starts changing.

 

[lawrenjl]

Are you using the same batch of bottling caps? Are the bottles sitting where they receive some sun? What type of sanitizer are you using? For the trub, what mashing method are you using? If you BIAB, this method leaves more trub than batch or fly sparing, but usually falls out during a long cold crash with gelatin. I cold crash every beer I make, and never had any issues because of it. Something else is going on here causing the problems.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I just bottled another batch (IPA) where I switched back to bottling with the auto-siphon connected to a bottling wand. [...]

So did you cold-crash this batch?

Your problem is surely oxidation, but if you changed two rather significant process variables, I'm not sure how you're going to reach a conclusion...

Cheers!

 

[chrisvaf]

Same bottling caps I use in most of my beers. I've gotten caps from 2 places - my local shop and online (OntarioBeerKegs). Have used both in many batches, and I actually split this batch capping half with one, and half with the other.

No BIAB. I have a Coleman Xtreme 70qt cooler, crush my own grains and mash for 60 minutes, then batch sparge.

I ferment in a closet in my basement (consistent 21 celcius in the closet) and after I bottle I place all bottles in cases, tape the cases closed and put inside a closet. No chance any of the beer sees light throughout the entire process (except for random spot checks during fermentation and bottling day).

As for the last batch I brewed - I did change 2 variables but I still plan on cold crashing my next batch. The reason I did this is because I really wanted a good batch for the holidays and with winter coming in the great white north I was hoping for at least one good batch for the holidays.

To me, the craziest thing about this whole thing (and I go back to this) is that the one bottle that I didn't quite cap 100% had the perfect color.