Amalgamation Saison

[allouez86]

I'm planning on brewing up a saison in a few days and I'm curious if anyone has used the Yeast Bay's Amalgamation Blend as a secondary yeast strain. My plan is to brew my typical saison, mostly pils, then some oats, wheat, and rye and pitch their Wallonian Farmhouse strain which is my new go-to saison strain. OG of 1.042.
I'm not terribly interested in using the blend in a 100% brett fermented beer. So I'm basically wondering what type of results people have been getting by pitching the blend after pitching my saison strain.

PS. Sorry if this subject has come up before, after a couple searches I didn't really find a ton of info on this exact topic.

 

[beergolf]

I do a lot of saisons, but have not used that yeast. I do often use a regular saison yeast, 3724, 3711, or Belle Saison and let that ferment out and then rack to a secondary and add brett. Then let the brett do it's thing for a few months. This works well. Brett does not need a lot to work on and you can be comfortable bottling and carbing high because the Fg will be very low. This makes a really good saison and I have gotten to the point that I am adding brett to every saison I brew.

If you watch to the Chad Yacobson (sp) youtube videos, he mentions that brett does not need a lot of sugars to work and will get there even with only very little to work on.

 

[allouez86]

Thanks for the reply. I've done a ton of brett saisons before, just really curious with people's experiences with this blend in particular. Planning on pitching the amalgamation after a week or so and then letting it go for 3 months then I'll see where it's at.

 

[Coff]

Just threw this into a barrel with a Wallonian primaried Saison, time will tell. I really liked it in a 100% Brett fermented wort with a very similar grain bill to what you described.

 

[metic]

I co-pitched half a vial of Amalgamation with some of The Yeast Bay's Saison Blend recently, and at this point (only a month in) its gone straight to sweaty gym sock funk---a similar flavour profile to where my beers with the Saison/Brett blend ended up after about six months. I'm not a big fan of it, so I'm hoping I'll get some of the more fruity flavours described in the website blurb if I leave it a while.

 

[Biobrewer]

I co-pitched half a vial of Amalgamation with some of The Yeast Bay's Saison Blend recently, and at this point (only a month in) its gone straight to sweaty gym sock funk---a similar flavour profile to where my beers with the Saison/Brett blend ended up after about six months. I'm not a big fan of it, so I'm hoping I'll get some of the more fruity flavours described in the website blurb if I leave it a while.

Hey Metic, love the Browne and Bitter blog. It's well laid out and I dig the recipes and the experimentation with different yeast.

We've never gotten a lot of strong funk from The Amalgamation (almost none on this one) or the Saison Brett Blend, but the Saison Brett Blend definitely has a nose of funk. After looking at your recipe for the Spelt Saison you used, I think I can identify the source of the stronger funk you're seeing:

http://www.browneandbitter.com/2014/04/spelt-saison-with-yeast-bay-saisonbrett.html

It appears as though you conducted a ferulic acid rest. This can free up of extra ferulic acid, which Brettanomyces sp. can reduce to 4-vinylphenol [guiacol]via the enzyme cinnamate decarboxylase and then further reduce to 4-ethylphenol [guiacol] via the enzyme vinyl phenol reductase. These enzymatic byproducts can lend barnyard/band-aid/mousy/footy/spicy/smokey aromas to the beer which is what people typically perceive as the "funk".

Try the Amalgamation and Saison Brett Blend again with a simple infusion mash, and I think you'll get a lot more of the fruity esters and a lot less of the funky compounds you've seen. Perhaps we should offer a little more guidance on the website regarding how to coax out certain flavors. We'll be redoing the site soon to remove some pages and add others, so that might be something useful!

 

[metic]

Thanks! I didn't do ferulic acid rest on the most recent one with Amalgamation (in fact I stopped doing them in general for just the reason you mention), so I wonder what's going on. Its still quite young so I'm not worried about it, but the aromas last time I checked it definitely reminded me of the older bottles of that spelt saison. Have you noticed any differences between co-pitching your brett blends along with the primary yeast, and pitching them into secondary?

 

[m00ps]

Im curious as to the ferulic rest too. If I am pitching brett in a secondary, will the ferulic acid rest help coax out more funk (which I am aiming for unlike the guy above). Or does the ferulic rest only really have an effect on the primary fermentation

 

[youreanimpulse]

It will help. Brett transforms the phenols created by sacc (which the ferulic acid rest helps maximize) into the funky phenols mentioned above.

 

[Biobrewer]

It will help. Brett transforms the phenols created by sacc (which the ferulic acid rest helps maximize) into the funky phenols mentioned above.

Absolutely, a ferulic acid rest will produce many more "building blocks of funk". I would recommend not doing one though with blends like Amalgamation that is meant to be more fruit forward, unless you're trying to get a little extra funky character. Even then, it will likely take some trial and error.

I also believe I remember reading that wheat/spelt/rye are higher in ferulic acid naturally than your typical 2-row/pilsner base malt. I need to find where I saw that, though I recall it was a reputable source and not just a forum comment or something like that. I'll digg and repost.

 

[metic]

I co-pitched half a vial of Amalgamation with some of The Yeast Bay's Saison Blend recently, and at this point (only a month in) its gone straight to sweaty gym sock funk---a similar flavour profile to where my beers with the Saison/Brett blend ended up after about six months. I'm not a big fan of it, so I'm hoping I'll get some of the more fruity flavours described in the website blurb if I leave it a while.

I don't know what was going on with this beer, but that funk has completely disappeared and been replaced by the expected fruit-forward brett aromas and flavours.

 

[allouez86]

Just packaged my saison brewed with Wallonian then followed by Amalgamation. Really pleased with how this one turned out. At two months it had that sort of plastic, sweaty note, very unappealing, but another couple of months really cleaned that up. The beer is very fruit forward with a hint of citrus and strawberry, but has enough funk to let you know it's a brett saison. Went four months in the fermentor then I kegged it with enough sugar to get 2.8 volumes. Going to let it condition for another month in the keg before it gets served.

 

[m00ps]

what are you doing with you tap lines and faucet after? ive been too scared to put any of my sours or wild ales on tap...

 

[allouez86]

I typically just run hot water, pbw, and sanitizer through the lines a couple of times. Haven't had any issues to this point. If you are too nervous then just devote a single set of tap lines to sour beer.