Almost Ready For First BIAB But Need Help

[Bigarcherynut]

I too have a 20 gal pot, ebiab controller, recirc pump, wilser bag. Love it but had a hiccup or 2 first few brews. Without too many what went wrong details here's my tips I learned from the mistakes

Ebiab-if your temp probe is inline with your pump and you shut pump off when you hit mash temp make sure heating element is off too or you can accidentally get the water too hot before you realize it.

Pump - if you have 2 valves on your pump make sure if you wish to restrict the pumps output volume you are only using the valve on the output of the pump, never the input to the pump

Even heavily restricted, I sucked the wort down to expose the heating element only briefly. I found I could move my bag and clip it so the pump spray output was on the outside of the bag. The wort in the pot still flowed into the bag netting me the same effect but I no longer had to worry about walking away for a minute only to hear a sucking sound coming from the pump.

SG readings - I noticed multiple SG readings are helpful, but larger sample sizes that have to be cooled to use a hydrometer doesn't work well. A refractometer needs a couple drops and self cools in 30 secs or so. Someone else recommended a cheap one from China
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CO9BX6U?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00 YMMV but I compared to my hydrometer and it was dead on and easier for me to read

Grain mill - def help in my brewhouse efficiency, and us BIAB'ers dont worry about stuck sparges.

Software - I like the priceless calculator. For my 20 gal round pot I was off and needed to top off a bit to get back to my desired 5.5 gals. Calculating my loss I figured I needed to use about 1.51 gals/hr boil off rate. 2nd brew that day was dead on.

The ebiab setup is fun, and when you are standing around showing your friends what you have built, scratching, sharing your home brew and basking in the envy of your buddies its a good day

Thanks for the tips. I've been reading a lot and still have questions and concerns. Thanks to the members that have posted on my thread I'm feeling much better that my first attempt will go smoothly.

I do have the temp probe in the pump line but will run the pump all the time during the mash cycle. If I turn it off I'll make sure to turn the heater off. I had gotten some input on this one.

As for the pump I did not install valves on it. I did ask but never got a reply. I can add one to control the output if needed. I've also asked about where to put the output line with few responses. I guess I'll try both inside the bag and on the outside and monitor closely. Thanks for the heads up.

I took your advice and bought an inexpensive refratometer. Not out much if it fails.

Are you saying you bought a grain mill? I'll have to see what the LBS will do for me as far as a fine grind.

I do agree on priceless calculator. Got it figured out. Great program.

Thanks again. Cant wait to get started.

 

[newnick]

As for the pump I did not install valves on it. I did ask but never got a reply. I can add one to control the output if needed. I've also asked about where to put the output line with few responses. I guess I'll try both inside the bag and on the outside and monitor closely. Thanks for the heads up.

Have you read through this topic? https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=543873
There is a lot of recirculation talk in that post.

I don't have a valve on the discharge of the pump because the spray head provides enough restriction for the pump. It also reduces the flow enough to not pull all of the water out from under the bag and cavitate the pump. My goal in recirculating has been to move the water through the grain bed for more consistant mashing. Most of these setups have the bag overlapping the outside of the pot, so spraying down into the grain bed from the lid was the most logical approach to take in my mind. I have had one instance of the water not draining through the bag fast enough which caused the pot to over flow slightly. I attribute that to to fine of a crush, or to fine of a bag.
I use a bayou classic pot with a basket and there is about 2 gallons of space under the basket there is also a small amount of space between the bag/basket and the inside of the pot. Most if these pumps will put out about 2 gallons a minute (I'm guessing), so without some form of restriction The grain bed and bag could be overwhelmed in a short amount of time (I'm guessing again). If there is less amount of "dead space" as I've heard it referred to this will happen quicker without some form of restriction of the pump flow. This is the only thing I use the pump for, if I used it to whirlpool or to pump out the pot through a chiller I would probably have a valve on the discharge.
I came to these conclusions by looking at other recirculating setups and by trying to copy a normal sparge or flysparge method of flowing slowly through the bed after the mash period is through.
I've been doing this for a couple years now and in my mind it is working well as far as increasing my consistentcy to the point I don't have the grains double crushed anymore.
Sorry for the long reply but sometimes it helps and I hope it has helped you form a better picture of what your planning on doing.
I like your pot too because it's different, hope it works as good as it looks.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Newnick,
Great explanation and not too long. I need all the help I can get. Is that spray nozzel stainless steel? The link you gave me it looks like plastic. I may try one. For now just figuring what I want to do and how with the circulation.

Another day working on the room and exhaust fan. Pictures are coming soon. I'm still waiting on the pump.

Thanks for the compliment on the kettle.

 

[newnick]

The one I use is plastic, I have seen them in brass also on Amazon I believe. I would think something could be made rather easily out of copper or stainless too just depends on what you want. I found the one I use at walmart for a couple dollars and couldn't pass it up and it has worked flawlessly for a couple of years now. I got the idea from a website that makes ebiab setups and sells them, can't remember the name right now but they use the same nozzle as I have.

 

[newnick]

Here is a pic of it in action.

 

[newnick]

Found the website I was referring to. There are some videos of the brewing systems and they show the sprayhead in action as well. If I ever get tired of propane I'm going to rig up my pot like one of theirs.
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/home.asp

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Found the website I was referring to. There are some videos of the brewing systems and they show the sprayhead in action as well. If I ever get tired of propane I'm going to rig up my pot like one of theirs.
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/home.asp

I'm going to check this site out. Looks interesting.

I checked out the thread on circulating and I think I may have an answer to this problem. I'm going to post on it tomorrow. It came to me when I was on page 6. You should check it out. May not be but it has to do with this style of pump. Installed a wood boiler this fall and the info came with the pump. May be the issue.

 

[newnick]

I try to read all the posts I can on this sub-forum, it has made my biab experience alot less painful than it could have been.
Just got to thinking, does your pot have a lid?

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I try to read all the posts I can on this sub-forum, it has made my biab experience alot less painful than it could have been.
Just got to thinking, does your pot have a lid?

The same here. I try to read everything I can. Sometimes when I search for a particular question I just don't find what I'm hoping to so I go ahead and ask. Maybe annoying to people because it has been discussed hundreds of time but at least I feel more comfortable.

Yes I do have a lid and hoping to make an insulted blanket for it. When I did a partial grain this spring I used an old sleeping bag. Was thinking of sacrificing it for the new system.

Nice looking system you have. I used the stove top when I did the partial grain this spring. It tied up the kitchen for a good part of the day which my wife wasn't happy about. Doing the E-kettle gave me the option of moving down stairs and creating a nice brewing area. I'm just a short time from going on line.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I posted some info on the link you gave me for circulating. May shed some light on this issue.

 

[newnick]

I used to wrap mine up with some insulation and cover the lid with a big towel. Don't do that anymore, just fire up the burner while recirculating on low to adjust it up a couple degrees. I still fold a towel in half to cover the lid.
When I moved from extract to partial mash it only took one batch to push me to AG. I wanted to go full volume anyway and that can't be done on the stove.
Thanks for the compliment on the system. Learned everything I needed to build it right here.

 

[newnick]

With all the engineers on here, that should open up a lot of discussion.
I'm familiar with "head pressure", especially in the case of pumping hot water.
We have a boiler feed water pump at work that sounds like it has gravel in the suction line because of not enough head pressure. If you ever look at the three vessel brewing systems, most have the pump located at the bottom of the brew stand which should give them the required amount of head pressure to pump out wort right after the boil.
Thanks for passing that along.

 

[CascadeOK]

Are you saying you bought a grain mill? I'll have to see what the LBS will do for me as far as a fine grind.

I did buy a grain mill. I bough a cereal killer from Adventures in Homebrewing. They're normally on sale for $99 but I got it for $89 on black friday. Only used it twice but I hooked it to my cordless drill, loved it. My local shop wont double grind or change the gap setting on their mill so I decided to take the plunge. Did a Blue Moon and Vanilla Porter with the new grind and got a noticeable bump in efficiency. (Actually let them do the first grind as its less work for me and easier on my mill)

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Do you have a FB in that kettle? When I suggested making that tub an e kettle in another thread, I envisioned a simple pot w/ element, but seems you have gone right down the rabbit hole haha. If adding heat, you may want to isolate the elemt from the mash?

After an hour or so of reading issues with circulating problems I'm coming back to this question regarding a flase bottom. Many talk about using a FB with a round kettle to help with circulating issues. I would think because of the size of the round kettle the water levels will be higher than my oval kettle. I was going to make a "U" shaped meshed stainless steel cradle to hold my bag but with the larger kettle my water level may not be as high as the round kettles. I want to keep my mash as low in the water as possible. How high above the element should the FB be. In other words how high above the element does the bag need to be? My ketttle also has a bottom drain so I need to keep the bag from sitting on that.

Thanks.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Any physical separation of the bag and element should be sufficient. I wouldn't say their is a minimum distance. Idk say 1/4", you just need to insure there is liquid flowing at the element and not stagnant mash or bag.

Recirculating with temp control can quickly become complicated, and for all those reasons I choose to just insulate the kettle for the mash. rest. If i need to bump the temp a little, I just stir constantly while the element is on. Very basic, not extremely precise, but is adequate IMHO.

Ymmv, if you find it fun and challenging, have at it! I'm not convinced it's the path to better beer so I haven't bothered. Oh, and I'm also kinda lazy lol.

You could try a batch using the basic procedure, then improve your process as you see fit. I would stick an element in that bad boy and make some beer, then refine as you progress. But that's how I roll.

I don't know what you mean by a U shaped cradle to hold the bag, but that sounds complicated. You basically need a FB of sorts over the element connected to your drain, and if using the bottom drain already present in your tub, I would install the element above that. I would suggest an element guard of sorts, kinda like a rigid perforated metal to isolate the element, you need flow at the element to distribute the heat to the mash, too much heat and not enough flow and the wort will boil locally rather than warming the entire mash. I believe in the other thread MadScientist tried a bunch of different configurations and finally resorted to using a FB or a basket if I recall correctly.

Welcome to the rabbit hole lol.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Any physical separation of the bag and element should be sufficient. I wouldn't say their is a minimum distance. Idk say 1/4", you just need to insure there is liquid flowing at the element and not stagnant mash or bag.

Recirculating with temp control can quickly become complicated, and for all those reasons I choose to just insulate the kettle for the mash. rest. If i need to bump the temp a little, I just stir constantly while the element is on. Very basic, not extremely precise, but is adequate IMHO.

Ymmv, if you find it fun and challenging, have at it! I'm not convinced it's the path to better beer so I haven't bothered. Oh, and I'm also kinda lazy lol.

You could try a batch using the basic procedure, then improve your process as you see fit. I would stick an element in that bad boy and make some beer, then refine as you progress. But that's how I roll.

I don't know what you mean by a U shaped cradle to hold the bag, but that sounds complicated. You basically need a FB of sorts over the element connected to your drain, and if using the bottom drain already present in your tub, I would install the element above that. I would suggest an element guard of sorts, kinda like a rigid perforated metal to isolate the element, you need flow at the element to distribute the heat to the mash, too much heat and not enough flow and the wort will boil locally rather than warming the entire mash. I believe in the other thread MadScientist tried a bunch of different configurations and finally resorted to using a FB or a basket if I recall correctly.

Welcome to the rabbit hole lol.

Ok, I may have used the term false bottom in the wrong way. I'm not planning to drain through it just a guard over the element and bottom drain. Here's a couple pictures showing what I'm planning on using. I'm going to put SS screws through it for legs. So as long as I keep it 1/4" above the element the bag and mash should be safe? Correct?

I was thinking of using this material and formingit in a U shape for the bag to sit in. I could attach cord to the screen to lift the bag out. Considering the size of the kettle and the lower water line I think I'll let the bag sit flat on the bottom screen.

 

[newnick]

I think you'll be alright, heading in the right direction anyway. I see some sort of a spray bar in there for recirculation, one that spans across the pot.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yes, that is a false bottom. I think the confusion is that you are saying the bag will sit "in", while I see the bag sitting "on" your FB or element guard. One word of caution, pump suction as low as a couple PSI can exert a couple hundred pounds of force on a FB and quickly turn them into a crumpled mess, this has been documented. Rather than trying to support your mesh with nuts and bolts, perhaps a tube around your element? Idk, that still doesn't put the drain in the flow path of the element. Just speaking from what I have seen done here, and there has been FB failures...1-2 psi acting on the entire area of the FB, say 200-300 square inches can produce a lot of force.

Sorry, not trying to deter you at all, just sharing what I have seen.

All the best to happy building and brewing. Cheers!

Ps...perhaps just laying it in the bottom of the kettle would suffice, idk. I can't tell how rigid it is from the pic, but supporting it as a FB may prove tricky and not really necessary.

People do all sorts of simple things to protect the bag from heat, one guy simply places a dinner plate in the kettle bottom so direct heat can be applied from a burner. I would sooner try perforating a couple beer cans and sliding them over the element rather than trying to build a FB out of flexible expanded sheet metal...JMO's

Actual real time testing with grain will prove your methods, short of that its best guess.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I think you'll be alright, heading in the right direction anyway. I see some sort of a spray bar in there for recirculation, one that spans across the pot.

I put a 90 deg. elbow on each side of the bulkhead fitting for the time being. I'm still waiting on my pump to come. On the inside not sure what to use for a spray tree. Maybe one like you are using or a copper tube across the top with holes or slits in it. That's something I can experiment with. I imagine there will be some tweaking once I start running batches. Getting close and excited. I plan on heating water tomorrow to check times to strike water temp and a boil.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Yes, that is a false bottom. I think the confusion is that you are saying the bag will sit "in", while I see the bag sitting "on" your FB or element guard. One word of caution, pump suction as low as a couple PSI can exert a couple hundred pounds of force on a FB and quickly turn them into a crumpled mess, this has been documented. Rather than trying to support your mesh with nuts and bolts, perhaps a tube around your element? Idk, that still doesn't put the drain in the flow path of the element. Just speaking from what I have seen done here, and there has been FB failures...1-2 psi acting on the entire area of the FB, say 200-300 square inches can produce a lot of force.

Sorry, not trying to deter you at all, just sharing what I have seen.

All the best to happy building and brewing. Cheers!

Ps...perhaps just laying it in the bottom of the kettle would suffice, idk. I can't tell how rigid it is from the pic, but supporting it as a FB may prove tricky and not really necessary.

People do all sorts of simple things to protect the bag from heat, one guy simply places a dinner plate in the kettle bottom so direct heat can be applied from a burner. I would sooner try perforating a couple beer cans and sliding them over the element rather than trying to build a FB out of flexible expanded sheet metal...JMO's

Actual real time testing with grain will prove your methods, short of that its best guess.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

I know that once I start brewing there will be some changes made. Just hoping for a good start.

I understand what you are talking about with the pressure on the FB. After reading on circulating and maybe beacause of the bag, that the bag does get pulled doen and outward against the side of the kettle acting as a seal. I had aleady thought about putting a SS tube on the inside from the top to the bottom to act as a relief pipe to help keep the pressure equal between above and below the bag. Hope this helps with pressure on the FB. The screen is SS steel and is quite stiff. Time will tell if it works.

I think you are also saying that some people have put the drain or pump input close to the element as to have flow acrossed it. My thoughts were to circulate below the bag to help move the wort around for an even heat. Now after reading and moving to circulating through the mash my thoughts may be wrong. If so, a new hole can be made and and the old one plugged. Lol

Thanks again.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Too much planning...not enough brewing...fire that kettle already.
J/k

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Too much planning...not enough brewing...fire that kettle already.
J/k

Lol. I like that.

I wish I could. No pump but maybe the first should be without and just wrap the kettle. Other than the pump need to make a wort cooler.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Two words for ya, "no chill"

 

[thunderwagn]

or "ice bath"


time to make beer:rockin:

 

[Bigarcherynut]

or "ice bath"


time to make beer:rockin:

The only problem with going with this size kettle is that I would have to put it in the bath tub to ice it down.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok, 4 words....
"Been there, done that"
Didn't get the T shirt lol
Paralysis by analysis lol

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Ok, 4 words....
"Been there, done that"
Didn't get the T shirt lol
Paralysis by analysis lol

Pretty sure I spend 10x more time on brew forums than I do brewing. :rockin:

 

[doug293cz]

Pretty sure I spend 10x more time on brew forums than I do brewing. :rockin:

I know I do for a fact.

Brew on

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Ok, I know need a little help.

I did a test run this morning to make sure things will work. Water only. I see my temp differs from my PT100 sensor to my tank thermometer, and 2 other thermometers by 17 degrees. My Pid controller is an Auber SYL-2362. The probe is in the T for my pump and without the pump I just keep draining water across it to make sure it's got hot water flowing across it. Directions don't tell me much in regards to calibrating it just it should not be more than 5 degree difference if more is a wiring problem. That's correct and the sensor input setting is correct. Any ideas?

Second issue is more serious. Everything was working fine. Had just gotten to the strike water temp setting of 162 degrees which took about 30 minutes for 9.5 gallons of water when my GFI breaker tripped. Turned off control panel, reset GFI, turned main control switch On, GFI trips again. I unplugged the heater turn it on fine. At that tine I noticed water leaking from the cover on my element connection box. Sealing ring was leaking. Problem resolved. Turn system back on now no output from the Fotek SSR. Could the water short taken out the relay? I do have 8v DC to the input of the SSR.

Very disappointing!

 

[newnick]

That's over my head I'd check in the electric brewing forum.
I'd put all those thermometers in one place like a counter top and let them sit a while to see how close they are to each other. When I'm brewing I use the one in the suction line while recirculating, the rest of the time I use a digital, like bringing it up to strike temp. I've been stopping a little short of strike temp lately and getting the grains stirred up and the pump up and running, then I ramp up to mash temp with the pump running.
I probably should check my thermometers now that I think about it.