Almost Ready For First BIAB But Need Help

[pricelessbrewing]

I haven't recirculated to this point yet, but have been BIAB brewing for a few years, and can confirm that there's a definite use for a mash out with BIAB. You decide if the time is worth it, but a mash out increases efficiency (gravity into the boil); in other words, it helps with conversion rates.

I'm assuming that your calculator wouldn't be able to calculate the conversion obtained from a mashout.

what Doug said. A mashout doesn't do anything that extending your mash wouldn't do as well if not better. My calculator takes conversion efficiency as an input, so not it doesn't care whether you mash out or not.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

what Doug said. A mashout doesn't do anything that extending your mash wouldn't do as well if not better. My calculator takes conversion efficiency as an input, so not it doesn't care whether you mash out or not.

Priceless, I've been doing a lot of reading while getting ready to do my first batch and I still have question on full volume method. Because of the size of my kettle I'm planning on doing full volume. With what you're are saying how much longer do I extend my mash time? If a recipe calls for 90 minutes how much longer are we talking? Would I just taking readings until the reading doesn't increase? I would think this could be different with each recipe.

Thanks much. Everyone is helping me greatly.

 

[doug293cz]

Priceless, I've been doing a lot of reading while getting ready to do my first batch and I still have question on full volume method. Because of the size of my kettle I'm planning on doing full volume. With what you're are saying how much longer do I extend my mash time? If a recipe calls for 90 minutes how much longer are we talking? Would I just taking readings until the reading doesn't increase? I would think this could be different with each recipe.

Thanks much. Everyone is helping me greatly.

Full volume mashing doesn't take longer to convert than traditional mashing. In fact it often takes less time (ref: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency#Mash_thickness.)

The time it takes for a mash to complete is a very strong function of the fineness of your grain crush. Brewers who mill very finely (like corn meal, or finer) can get complete conversion in 30 minutes or less. Brewers with coarse crushes (many HBS crushes) may need 90 minutes to complete (if they complete at all), all else being equal. BIAB is ideal for using very fine crushes, since you don't have to worry about a stuck lauter.

You can do the SG monitoring for a few mashes. Once you get an idea of how long the mash takes to complete with your crush, and other mash conditions, you probably don't need to monitor every mash.

Brew on

 

[pricelessbrewing]

You can do the SG monitoring for a few mashes. Once you get an idea of how long the mash takes to complete with your crush, and other mash conditions, you probably don't need to monitor every mash.

Brew on

Agreed. I'm really surprised this isn't a more utilized test. It's mostly due to grain crush, and slightly due to mash thickness where thicker mashes (<1.25 qt/lb) will take longer. I've never seen a mash that had a good crush need longer than 45 minutes, everytime I've been to a local brewers place to help out and he "needed" long mashes, he had rather coarse crush.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Full volume mashing doesn't take longer to convert than traditional mashing. In fact it often takes less time (ref: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency#Mash_thickness.)

The time it takes for a mash to complete is a very strong function of the fineness of your grain crush. Brewers who mill very finely (like corn meal, or finer) can get complete conversion in 30 minutes or less. Brewers with coarse crushes (many HBS crushes) may need 90 minutes to complete (if they complete at all), all else being equal. BIAB is ideal for using very fine crushes, since you don't have to worry about a stuck lauter.

You can do the SG monitoring for a few mashes. Once you get an idea of how long the mash takes to complete with your crush, and other mash conditions, you probably don't need to monitor every mash.

Brew on

Doug,

Thanks much. Between you and Priceless you are really brining this together for me. I'm definitely going BIAB with full volume. It sounds as if it's the simple way to go. When I found this kettle I had no idea the benefit it would bring me.

Now I need to design and sew me a bag. That should be easy. Was taught at young age by my Mom the art of sewing. I have sewn things from stunt kites to ice shanties.

 

[doug293cz]

Good luck. BIAB is pretty easy once you get used to handling the bag, which can be a little awkward the first time. A pulley system helps a lot (suspended from ceiling, ladder, etc.) Silicone heat resistant gloves also come in handy.

Brew on

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Agreed. I'm really surprised this isn't a more utilized test. It's mostly due to grain crush, and slightly due to mash thickness where thicker mashes (<1.25 qt/lb) will take longer. I've never seen a mash that had a good crush need longer than 45 minutes, everytime I've been to a local brewers place to help out and he "needed" long mashes, he had rather coarse crush.

Thanks again. You are making this all come together for me.

Can or will the LBS do a fine enough mill of my grains? Haven't done all grian BIAB so not sure if they mill it fine enough. Do you have to mill yours this fine on your own?

A couple of questions on your program.

1. What is the difference between Hop Bill & Dry Hop
2. I'm not going to sparge. Do I still need to enter data in the field or enter "0"?
3. You gave me the size of my oval kettle, I'll enter that in where it asks for kettle/mashtun size. I would think that I would enter "0" for mashtun loss because I'm going full volume, Correct? What about kettle loss?
4. I think I can enter nothing for kettle width because that will give me false levels, Correct?
5. How about conversion efficiency? Can't remember if I asked earlier.
6. Hop absorption? This must be very minimal. What is inserted for this? Is that number the default?
7. Trub Loss. Is that a standard of 10% of the size batch going into the fermenter?
8. I see when I run my numbers for the Black Butte Porter I'm starting with shows 3.03 qt/Pound of grain. I take it this is for a thin mash? Is that how the program is set up for?

Thanks, most likely more to come. Ha Ha! I guess you can tell I'm a rookie.

Just want to get off to a good start. My build is almost complete. Just waiting on my pump. Finished the brew room in the basement this weekend. Will be posting pics so I'll let you know if I do that on a new thread,

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Just get a wilser bag and save yourself some sewing. Get a couple hop bags while your at it.The hop bags make cleanup and racking so easy.

I keep the controller on at mash temp for the mash.Thats the beauty of a controller,even temps.
I shoot for a 6 gallon post boil(each bucket) to give me a full 5 gallon finished product.
Im usually at 14 gallon strike water for a 60 minute mash,60 boil and end up around 12 gallons.If your a little under you can just sparge to your desired wort amount.Sparging will help get some sugars out and up your effecienty a bit.

 

[Gavin C]

Doug,


Now I need to design and sew me a bag. That should be easy. Was taught at young age by my Mom the art of sewing. I have sewn things from stunt kites to ice shanties.

Not knocking your sewing skills but if you're looking for a quality bag look no further than @Wilserbrewer 's signature.

http://biabbags.webs.com/

I recently got one and it really is a quality product. I can't believe I slummed it for so long with an inferior bag. Many a happy user of his products are to be found on HBT. Here is my bag in action last brew. The hop-spider pictured also features a @Wilserbrewer hop-spider bag.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Not knocking your sewing skills but if you're looking for a quality bag look no further than @Wilserbrewer 's signature.

http://biabbags.webs.com/

I recently got one and it really is a quality product. I can't believe I slummed it for so long with an inferior bag. Many a happy user of his products are to be found on HBT. Here is my bag in action last brew. The hop-spider pictured also features a @Wilserbrewer hop-spider bag.

Gavin,

I know they are a quality bag from what I've read but you need to know me to know that I don't buy it when I can make it. You have to know me to understand. My Dad taught me at an early age coming from a family that things were tight. Worked hard at everything and learned a great lesson from him. Not to brag but there's not much I can't do. Blessed to have common sense and very handy. Well maybe alittle green at this beer brewing.

If I wasn't handy I would be buying beer not brewing it. Now if my bag fails and I make one heck of a mess I'll let you know and will be buying Wilserbrewer 's bags. :smack:

 

[thunderwagn]

Thanks again. You are making this all come together for me.

Can or will the LBS do a fine enough mill of my grains? Haven't done all grian BIAB so not sure if they mill it fine enough. Do you have to mill yours this fine on your own?

A couple of questions on your program.

1. What is the difference between Hop Bill & Dry Hop
2. I'm not going to sparge. Do I still need to enter data in the field or enter "0"?
3. You gave me the size of my oval kettle, I'll enter that in where it asks for kettle/mashtun size. I would think that I would enter "0" for mashtun loss because I'm going full volume, Correct? What about kettle loss?
4. I think I can enter nothing for kettle width because that will give me false levels, Correct?
5. How about conversion efficiency? Can't remember if I asked earlier.
6. Hop absorption? This must be very minimal. What is inserted for this? Is that number the default?
7. Trub Loss. Is that a standard of 10% of the size batch going into the fermenter?
8. I see when I run my numbers for the Black Butte Porter I'm starting with shows 3.03 qt/Pound of grain. I take it this is for a thin mash? Is that how the program is set up for?

Thanks, most likely more to come. Ha Ha! I guess you can tell I'm a rookie.

Just want to get off to a good start. My build is almost complete. Just waiting on my pump. Finished the brew room in the basement this weekend. Will be posting pics so I'll let you know if I do that on a new thread,

My lhbs puts just about everything in the customers hands. I can mill myself as much as I want. Not sure how yours operates.

1) Hop bill enter the total amount of hops that will go into your boil/kettle. Dry hops are what you put in fermentor.
2)If no sparge put 0.
3)Mash tun/kettle size enter how many total gallons your kettle will hold. Mash tun and kettle loss, I enter 0. I pour everything in. I don't whirlpool etc. You may be different.
4)Actually, be sure to measure how wide your kettle is. The calculator uses this figure to measure your volume height with grains added (displacement). That way you know if you add 15# of grain, your liquid height won't be more than your kettle.
5)If you're not sure yet, go with something like 68-70% as a safe number. That's what I was told anyway.
6) I leave hop and grain absorption at default. Squeeze your grain bag like fook! If you find you have more loss, your can adjust these numbers, but default are good to start.
7) Yes. I do 5.5 gallon batches figuring I'm leaving a good half gallon of trub in the bottom of fermentor. You may find after a couple batches that figure to high or to low for you, but .5 is a good start imo.

Also, do temp your grains. It is an important figure for proper strike temp.
The calculator is awesome. I'm still amazed every time I use it at how accurate it is.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

@chunkwagon gave a good answer except for #5.

Conversion efficiency should be 90%+. Chunk was thinking of mash or brewhouse efficiency which is typically ~70-80%.

The way I think of it is

90% decent, 92% average, 95% good,95-97% great. >97% awesome, but you probably just miss measured or didn't take into account thermal expansion.

 

[thunderwagn]

Ha, I botched that one. I've been setting that wrong my last couple of batches. Thanks for the correction!

 

[fun4stuff]

@chunkwagon gave a good answer except for #5.

Conversion efficiency should be 90%+. Chunk was thinking of mash or brewhouse efficiency which is typically ~70-80%.

The way I think of it is

90% decent, 92% average, 95% good,95-97% great. >97% awesome, but you probably just miss measured or didn't take into account thermal expansion.

Please consider adding a FAQ section that explains all the fields and default values. I'm new to BIAB and have found myself googling a fair amount... a lot explained in threads on these forums, but would be nice if it was explained on your site (unless it is and I'm missing it)

 

[thunderwagn]

Please consider adding a FAQ section that explains all the fields and default values. I'm new to BIAB and have found myself googling a fair amount... a lot explained in threads on these forums, but would be nice if it was explained on your site (unless it is and I'm missing it)

There is one. A little hard to find. Its under posts I think.
http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/calc/Calculator-Terms/

 

[Bigarcherynut]

My lhbs puts just about everything in the customers hands. I can mill myself as much as I want. Not sure how yours operates.

4)Actually, be sure to measure how wide your kettle is. The calculator uses this figure to measure your volume height with grains added (displacement). That way you know if you add 15# of grain, your liquid height won't be more than your kettle.

Chuckwagon,

Thanks for the input. Very helpful. As for #4 my kettle is an oval. I posted a pic but may be hard to see. Priceless gave me the size compared to oval but if I enter that the depth is not correct so I felt I could leave that out.

Thanks again.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Confused...priceless gave you a comparable diameter / or area as a circle...the depth should be correct?
Priceless is typically extremely precise lol...numbers are his business...see below.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Dang that's a big pot. Hard to say for sure, but the equivalent surface area would be for a circle with width of 18.03" which would give a boil off around 1.87 gal/hr for a typical boil vigor.

Use 18 point 03...as your diameter using the calculator and your depths should fall into place.

Edit...if you give the kettle height along with a confirmed kettle volume, priceless could give you a precise kettle diameter to enter...

I could as well, but I'm much older and lazier lol

18.3"?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Priceless is typically extremely precise lol...numbers are his business...see below.

Hahaha idk what you're referring to

The numbers provides should work out. 18.03 should be correct if I did the math right.

Thanks for the reminder @chunkwagon I need to update that page.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Might the equivalent circular area be 19.18" diameter? Please check the scratchings below? I don't think this is an oval?

edit....after looking at the pic again I believe the bottom area is less than the top area, this thing flares to the top so the volume will not be linear as it is filled...I tried, I'm shamed and out....

 

[wilserbrewer]

see below....sorry mispost

 

[wilserbrewer]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451484285.344777.jpg

 

[Gavin C]

View attachment 326212

Now I can't unlike your missing (presumably) bad math. Boy is my face red.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Thanks for the like...Yes...I had to use a BIG eraser....my face is more red! I think to make it work for kettle depths, one would have to add calculations into priceless's calculator, and I'm not going there....math is fun for a while then it quickly turns into work

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Might the equivalent circular area be 19.18" diameter? Please check the scratchings below? I don't think this is an oval?

edit....after looking at the pic again I believe the bottom area is less than the top area, this thing flares to the top so the volume will not be linear as it is filled...I tried, I'm shamed and out....

The kettle appears to be flared but is isn't. Must be the picture. I used area of an oval and came up with what pricelss did.

You are correct with your sketch of how the kettle appears I'm not sure because I'm not at home to measure but I think your demension of 12" is really close.

I did pour a gallon into my kettle that was as accurate as possible and it fills my kettle to the 3/4" mark. That said I ran diameters into the program until I came up with 3/4" level and that would make a diameter of 19.75" so you were very close at 19.18". The actual 1 gallon fill measurement difference was yours being .80" to mine of .75".

Wow! That makes my head hurts.

At least I know what to put into the formula.

Thanks much and math can be fun.

 

[thunderwagn]

Math makes my head hurt. I need to drink good beer now!
@bigarcherynut, I'm looking forward to your brew day. I think some of us scour every bit of info we can to make processes easier and smoother, and that's part of the 'challenge' and fun part for me. It made my first BIAB day go almost without a hitch. Now I look back to the very recent past and think doing extracts was a real pain and always a struggle to get right.
You're going to have a great time come brew day :rockin:

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Gotcha, i didn't look at the image I just assumed it was an actual oval. It appears it's more of a pill shape, in which case wilsers math is correct for the surface area as long as the straight part is 12" and the ends are perfect half circles. In an odd shape like that, it's probably easier to just pour a gallon out and measure it

 

[wilserbrewer]

Looking again at the pic, I don't think the ends are half circles

I'm wrong again

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Looking again at the pic, I don't think the ends are half circles

I'm wrong again

This will help out. As you can see the ends are very close to half circles.

 

[CascadeOK]

I too have a 20 gal pot, ebiab controller, recirc pump, wilser bag. Love it but had a hiccup or 2 first few brews. Without too many what went wrong details here's my tips I learned from the mistakes

Ebiab-if your temp probe is inline with your pump and you shut pump off when you hit mash temp make sure heating element is off too or you can accidentally get the water too hot before you realize it.

Pump - if you have 2 valves on your pump make sure if you wish to restrict the pumps output volume you are only using the valve on the output of the pump, never the input to the pump

Even heavily restricted, I sucked the wort down to expose the heating element only briefly. I found I could move my bag and clip it so the pump spray output was on the outside of the bag. The wort in the pot still flowed into the bag netting me the same effect but I no longer had to worry about walking away for a minute only to hear a sucking sound coming from the pump.

SG readings - I noticed multiple SG readings are helpful, but larger sample sizes that have to be cooled to use a hydrometer doesn't work well. A refractometer needs a couple drops and self cools in 30 secs or so. Someone else recommended a cheap one from China
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CO9BX6U?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00 YMMV but I compared to my hydrometer and it was dead on and easier for me to read

Grain mill - def help in my brewhouse efficiency, and us BIAB'ers dont worry about stuck sparges.

Software - I like the priceless calculator. For my 20 gal round pot I was off and needed to top off a bit to get back to my desired 5.5 gals. Calculating my loss I figured I needed to use about 1.51 gals/hr boil off rate. 2nd brew that day was dead on.

The ebiab setup is fun, and when you are standing around showing your friends what you have built, scratching, sharing your home brew and basking in the envy of your buddies its a good day