Almost Ready For First BIAB But Need Help

[Bigarcherynut]

I'm nearing the completion of my electric BIAB system. I have a thread showing my system and hoping to post new pictures soon. Check it out.

I'm looking to do a Black Butte Porter all grain clone. I did this as a partial thanks to the help of DromJohn this spring and it was great.

I've been reading and still have some questions. I have seen the Priceless BIAB Calculator but with my 20 gallon pot feel I can do most recipes full volume.

Here are some questions I have:

1. How do I calculate starting water volume if I don't plan on sparging? Is there a specific calculator on here for full volume?
2. Is there a formula for figuring efficiency?
3. Most boil times are 60 or 90 minutes. If I'm doing a 5.5 gallon batch do I continue to boil till my final level is at 5.5 gallons? A little confused on this.
4. Are all mash out temps 170 degrees and always for 10 minutes.

I have read a lot of the BIAB sticky and if I search could find the answers to my questions but seem to struggle finding them.

Any other input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help and excited to try out the new system.

 

[kh54s10]

Here are some questions I have:

1. How do I calculate starting water volume if I don't plan on sparging? Is there a specific calculator on here for full volume?
2. Is there a formula for figuring efficiency?
3. Most boil times are 60 or 90 minutes. If I'm doing a 5.5 gallon batch do I continue to boil till my final level is at 5.5 gallons? A little confused on this.
4. Are all mash out temps 170 degrees and always for 10 minutes.
.

1) You need to reach your preboil amount. So you need the volume of water that will be absorbed by the grain plus the amount you want to end up with plus the amount that will boil off.
2) Efficiency changes due to many factors including how well the grain is crushed. There are calculators but you need to know how well your system does. 70% is a good starting point.
3) Again you need to know your boil off rate. I have a 10 gallon pot on a SP10 burner, it boils off about 2 gallons per hour. So you want to start with enough to end up with what you want as a final amount.
4) unless you do a long rest between mashing and boiling you do not need to do a mashout. 170 degrees at 10 minutes will stop conversion. Which is most important with fly sparging in a traditional multiple vessel system.

 

[Gavin C]

1. How do I calculate starting water volume if I don't plan on sparging? Is there a specific calculator on here for full volume?

Like so

Planned Batch size + boil-off + wort lost to grain absorption+ hop absorption +trub loss +deadspace in kette= total volume of water needed

2. Is there a formula for figuring efficiency?

This thread/article might help

3. Most boil times are 60 or 90 minutes. If I'm doing a 5.5 gallon batch do I continue to boil till my final level is at 5.5 gallons? A little confused on this.

You can boil longer if your preboil volume indicates you have too much volume or your accurately measured pre-boil gravity is lower than anticipated. The adjustments to the boil duration should be made prior to hop additions so as not to affect your flavor/aroma hop schedule. (i.e. if 60 minute bill was planned and you decide a 70 min boil is needed, don't add the 60 minute hop addition till there is 60 mins left in the boil, this would be after 10 mins of boiling)

If you just keep boiling after your late hop additions you will boil off the desired volatile hop compounds you wanted to keep in the beer. In short lengthen the boil but leave the hop schedule unchanged.

4. Are all mash out temps 170 degrees and always for 10 minutes.

No. Many do not use a mash-out arguing very reasonably one is not needed.

I do a short mash-out rest at 168°F for 5mins. My rationale is weak and I won't bore you with it.

Best of luck

 

[Bigarcherynut]

1) You need to reach your preboil amount. So you need the volume of water that will be absorbed by the grain plus the amount you want to end up with plus the amount that will boil off.
2) Efficiency changes due to many factors including how well the grain is crushed. There are calculators but you need to know how well your system does. 70% is a good starting point.
3) Again you need to know your boil off rate. I have a 10 gallon pot on a SP10 burner, it boils off about 2 gallons per hour. So you want to start with enough to end up with what you want as a final amount.
4) unless you do a long rest between mashing and boiling you do not need to do a mashout. 170 degrees at 10 minutes will stop conversion. Which is most important with fly sparging in a traditional multiple vessel system.

Well by the sounds of it, once I have my system built I'll need to do some test boils to determine what rate my build will boil off. That should stay pretty constant with batches, Correct?

Are there calculators for determining grain absorbtion or will that be a known after I do some batches?

Gavin C has given me a link to read up on efficiency. Looks very interesting.

The reason I ask about the mash out is that's what Seven posted in his sticky regarding BIAB brewing. So this appears to differ from each person. Still not sure about this point of the process. Maybe need to search and read more.

Thanks much for your input.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Like so

Planned Batch size + boil-off + wort lost to grain absorption+ hop absorption +trub loss +deadspace in kette= total volume of water needed



This thread/article might help



You can boil longer if your preboil volume indicates you have too much volume or your accurately measured pre-boil gravity is lower than anticipated. The adjustments to the boil duration should be made prior to hop additions so as not to affect your flavor/aroma hop schedule. (i.e. if 60 minute bill was planned and you decide a 70 min boil is needed, don't add the 60 minute hop addition till there is 60 mins left in the boil, this would be after 10 mins of boiling)

If you just keep boiling after your late hop additions you will boil off the desired volatile hop compounds you wanted to keep in the beer. In short lengthen the boil but leave the hop schedule unchanged.


No. Many do not use a mash-out arguing very reasonably one is not needed.

I do a short mash-out rest at 168°F for 5mins. My rationale is weak and I won't bore you with it.

Best of luck

So as I mentioned in my last post some of this volume will be dependent on my build and it's boil off rate. Still need to figure out what the grain absorption will be.

The link for efficiency looks interesting. Thanks for the link. May have questions later on.

I think I understand where you are heading with boil time and rate. Seems to be a function of my build and will get better with batches.

As I posted about the mash out, I was only going by what Seven post on his BIAB sticky. Will need to read more on this.

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Forgot to ask, if I'm doing a full volume batch, can I still use the "Priceless BIAB Calculator"?

If I can, here are some questions I have about data they ask for:

1. Can I leave out the sparging volume?
2. Because I'm not sparging can I leave out Kettle/Mash Tun volume and width? My kettle is an oval.
3.I'm not sure what I should enter for Trub Loss, Conversion Efficiency, Grain & Hop Absorption. Are these calculated when I enter data or are these things I need to know?

Looks like a handy calculator but just need some clarification.

Thanks.

 

[kh54s10]

Well by the sounds of it, once I have my system built I'll need to do some test boils to determine what rate my build will boil off. That should stay pretty constant with batches, Correct?

Are there calculators for determining grain absorbtion or will that be a known after I do some batches?

Gavin C has given me a link to read up on efficiency. Looks very interesting.

The reason I ask about the mash out is that's what Seven posted in his sticky regarding BIAB brewing. So this appears to differ from each person. Still not sure about this point of the process. Maybe need to search and read more.

Thanks much for your input.

You can boil a measured amount of water for a certain length of time then calculate the boil off rate, math is too much for me.

It will vary a little depending on ambient temperature and humidity.

There are calculators to figure out grain absorption or it will probably be accounted for in recipe building software.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Shameless plug: check out the link in my sig. Will do a best case scenario for batch sparging and estimating your lauter efficiency. You have to input your to conversion efficiency, which will determine the first runnings and mash gravitt.

Grain Absorption is usually in the 0.08-0.125 gal/lb. 0.125 if you don't squeeze is typical, a moderate squeeze gives 0.08 and a serious squeeze can get you as low as 0.04.

 

[doug293cz]

Forgot to ask, if I'm doing a full volume batch, can I still use the "Priceless BIAB Calculator"?

If I can, here are some questions I have about data they ask for:

1. Can I leave out the sparging volume?
2. Because I'm not sparging can I leave out Kettle/Mash Tun volume and width? My kettle is an oval.
3.I'm not sure what I should enter for Trub Loss, Conversion Efficiency, Grain & Hop Absorption. Are these calculated when I enter data or are these things I need to know?

Looks like a handy calculator but just need some clarification.

Thanks.

1. Just set the sparge volume to 0 in the @pricelessbrewing calculator if you are doing no sparge.
2. You can leave it out, but then all the height (depth) calculations will be bogus. If you know the cross sectional area of your kettle, you can calculate an equivalent circular diameter that will work in the calc. Equiv diam = 2 * sqrt(area / pi).
3. None of these are calcualted. You need to enter the typical values for your system for the calculator to give accurate results. Enter 95% for conversion efficiency if you don't have a better value to use. If you plan to squeeze, start with 0.08 for grain absorption. If not squeezing start with 0.11. Leave the hop absorption at the default. Mash tun losses are 0 for BIAB. Kettle losses are whatever you leave in the kettle (what you leave out of the fermenter.)

Brew on

 

[pricelessbrewing]

What Doug said

Let me know if you have anymore questions. If I don't see it, another user will usually answer it as there's a few members on this forum that are fsmiliar.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Shameless plug: check out the link in my sig. Will do a best case scenario for batch sparging and estimating your lauter efficiency. You have to input your to conversion efficiency, which will determine the first runnings and mash gravitt.

Grain Absorption is usually in the 0.08-0.125 gal/lb. 0.125 if you don't squeeze is typical, a moderate squeeze gives 0.08 and a serious squeeze can get you as low as 0.04.

Didn't mean anything offensive in regards to the program. I meant to say "I need clarification.". I'm all new to all grain and BIAB brewing. I continually look up meanings and abbreviations that are said here. Learning all the time and great info here. Just hard for me as a new brewer.

I've been playing with the software and it's starting to make sense. Just don't understand all the terminology. Thank God for Google. Helps me understand the things said.

Thanks.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

No offense taken at all. If you can't find an answer feel free to ask here.

 

[ThomasPaine]

Don't worry if you boil off too much, because you can add more water at the end. Just make sure you don't add hops to early like others have said.

 

[cbier60]

I see all these estimates for boil-off rates, grain absorption, or whatever, but none come close to the accuracy of the calculations made by Biabacus. If you intend to BIAB, you can't beat the info from Biabrewer.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Here's the kettle I'm using. Don't know if I can enter a size for it.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Just measure the diameter of the kettle to get an estimated boil off rate in my calculator.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Just measure the diameter of the kettle to get an estimated boil off rate in my calculator.

The kettle is an oval measuring 25" x 13" and holds 20 gallons.

 

[thunderwagn]

The Priceless Calc is amazingly accurate. You can tinker with it a bit and match the numbers up (or damn close) to BS or BF software to compare water amounts, etc. to your equipt set up. I find it much simpler to use and understand compared to other calcs. I also found it to be the most accurate for my style.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

The kettle is an oval measuring 25" x 13" and holds 20 gallons.

Dang that's a big pot. Hard to say for sure, but the equivalent surface area would be for a circle with width of 18.03" which would give a boil off around 1.87 gal/hr for a typical boil vigor.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Jmo, a test boil to determine boil off isn't really required, just estimate it and use the data to dial in your next batch.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Dang that's a big pot. Hard to say for sure, but the equivalent surface area would be for a circle with width of 18.03" which would give a boil off around 1.87 gal/hr for a typical boil vigor.

Priceless, thanks again for your help. I've been playing with the software and things are coming together. Think I'm ready.

I've been working on the setup and all is built and wired. Just waiting for the cir pump to come. Tomorrow I'll start on the brewing area downstairs which will make my wife happy. Didn't appreciate me tying up the kitchen for half a day.

I think I'll follow Gavin C's method he has posted using the 168 degree mash out for 10 minutes unless people convince me differently.

Reading his thread he tests with iodine. Is this necessary? I have read this before.

I do have a few more questions:

While mashing should I run the pump and let it flow into the grain bag or circulate below the bag?

When I did a partial grain my mash temp stayed right on the entire time. Should I leave the controller on during the mash period in case the temp drops below my selected temp?

Again thanks to everyone for the help. Can't wait to get brewing. Two years ago my daughter bought me a Mr. Beer kit. I moved to 5 gallon batches and then last spring my first partial grain and now hoping to have success at all grain BIAB.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Sorry buddy I don't have any experience with pumps. From what I understand it should help with conversion rates, I would want to keep it on as much as possible.

I'm not a big fan of the iodine test. I prefer using a refractometer to take gravity readings throughout the mash. When sg stops increasing, the mash is done.

I don't bother with a mash out. I don't think it's of any use with biab.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Do you have a FB in that kettle? When I suggested making that tub an e kettle in another thread, I envisioned a simple pot w/ element, but seems you have gone right down the rabbit hole haha. If adding heat, you may want to isolate the elemt from the mash?

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I'm going to do BIAB and I'm making a cradle out of stainless mesh to hold the bag off of the element. I can than pull it out of the pot to let it drain.

 

[newnick]

I recirculate during the mash. I run the pump the whole time except for when I cut it off to stir the grains up some.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I recirculate during the mash. I run the pump the whole time except for when I cut it off to stir the grains up some.

When you circulate do you circulate in the bag over the mash or around the outside?

Thanks.

 

[newnick]

I've got a small spray head in the lid of the pot that sprays out over the mash just inside the edge of the bag. It looks similar to this head http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LOR8V9A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 without the screen/filter installed.

 

[Gavin C]

I think I'll follow Gavin C's method he has posted using the 168 degree mash out for 10 minutes unless people convince me differently.

Reading his thread he tests with iodine. Is this necessary? I have read this before.

I do 5 mins mash-out rest. My methods have changed a bit from when I first made that thread.

The iodine tests are useful when learning about your own methods. You can see how rapidly conversion can occur. Not nessecary at all though.

One idea is to take a sample of the mash with some grains, grind them up and test the resultant mixture for starch. This will give you more useful info regarding conversion perhaps.

I have carried out iodine tests showing conversion after just a few minutes on very cool mashes. I was just testing to see the sensitivity of the test rather than to tell me if the mash was done.

I tend now to look at a mash more like making a stew for certain beer types. It may well be cooked and safe to eat very quickly but it is over time that more things can happen to impact flavor, mouthfeel, etc.

I'm still very green when it comes to mash chemistry so take a nice heaped pinch of salt with that analogy. Others will want to tear that notion to pieces and will have very reasoned and sound science on their side.

I have tried a wide range of mash profiles, 30 minute mashes ( @psylocide has a great thread on that topic in the BIAB forum) to longer 90 minute+ multi-step mashes with and without decoctions. All options are open to you with single vessel brewing.

It's fun to exploit them.

 

[cbier60]

Sorry buddy I don't have any experience with pumps. From what I understand it should help with conversion rates, I would want to keep it on as much as possible.

I don't bother with a mash out. I don't think it's of any use with biab.

I haven't recirculated to this point yet, but have been BIAB brewing for a few years, and can confirm that there's a definite use for a mash out with BIAB. You decide if the time is worth it, but a mash out increases efficiency (gravity into the boil); in other words, it helps with conversion rates.

I'm assuming that your calculator wouldn't be able to calculate the conversion obtained from a mashout.

 

[doug293cz]

I haven't recirculated to this point yet, but have been BIAB brewing for a few years, and can confirm that there's a definite use for a mash out with BIAB. You decide if the time is worth it, but a mash out increases efficiency (gravity into the boil); in other words, it helps with conversion rates.

...

Only if your conversion is incomplete when you start the mash out. If conversion is complete, there is no more sugar to be created no matter what you do.

Brew on