All Late Hopped Beer = Inaccurate IBU Calculation?

[Apoxbrew]

So I'm trying an all late hopped beer. All hop additions will be made at 20min or less in the boil.

I came across a couple posts here that suggested when using this method, the IBU calculations in our recipe software will be higher than what they actually are in the finished beer.

I'm just looking for some confirmation on this. Currently my IBU's are a bit higher than I'm targeting, but if the calculation is "false" when using an all late-hopping method, I'll try to build this offset in so that in the end, I'm close(r) to my target.

So, the question is: When all hop additions are made at 20 minutes or less, is the IBU calculation made by BeerSmith (or other programs) higher than actual?

(I know the calculations in our programs aren't 100% anyway and there's a lot of factors involved in actual IBU's in our finished beers... this is an "all things being equal" kind of question)

 

[pm5k00]

I have done several late hop addition only beers and have found the IBUs to be pretty close to my software's (Brewmate) estimate. I get my wort down to 100 in 10 - 15 minutes, but I guess if you did an extended whirpool or have an inefficient wort chiller the extra time your wort spent in higher temps could get you more IBUs.

 

[grain-pa]

hello pm5k00,

i have one question: what is your reason to make lately hopped beers - is your aim to get a beer with a pleasent (= not aggressive and very tasty) hop bitterness?

best

 

[pm5k00]

hello pm5k00,

i have one question: what is your reason to make lately hopped beers - is your aim to get a beer with a pleasent (= not aggressive and very tasty) hop bitterness?

best

Yes, more hop flavor with less bitterness, also you can do a shorter boil and save time.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

I think the "perceived" bitterness obviously increases due to the more in your face properties of late addition hops. But as far as calculation(cooling variables aside) I don't see why the formula wouldn't apply for short boils.
Edit: I can see the increase if you are doing late addition extract in a partial boil.

 

[wonderbread23]

The amount of IBUs your a going to get will vary wildly based on your cooling methods. In an ice bath, the temp of the wort doesn't drop too quickly so you'll be still getting a decent amount of isomerization while you sit above 180. If you do techniques like hot whirlpools, you'll also get a considerable amount of bitterness at that point. If you have an immersion chiller or plate chiller, you'll be knocking the temp down considerably quicker.

 

[davefleck]

The amount of IBUs your a going to get will vary wildly based on your cooling methods. In an ice bath, the temp of the wort doesn't drop too quickly so you'll be still getting a decent amount of isomerization while you sit above 180. If you do techniques like hot whirlpools, you'll also get a considerable amount of bitterness at that point. If you have an immersion chiller or plate chiller, you'll be knocking the temp down considerably quicker.

If you don't cool quickly or want repeatable results bag the hops and remove at flame out

 

[Apoxbrew]

perfect. great info. thanks gents!!

 

[usfmikeb]

bag the hops and remove at flame out

I've started doing this with all of my beers. The only hops that are in my wort during cooldown are flameout additions. I use an immersion chiller, and at this time of year the temp drops below 100 fairly quickly. However, during the summer, it takes a lot longer, and my ales taste more bitter.

Yes, I'll likely be making a second immersion chiller to do an ice bath process in the future. Especially since I've branched into doing lagers.

 

[Calder]

Once you stop boiling you will not isomerize any hop oils. Isomerization is basically boiling and condensing again. Once the boil is over, you will get no mor IBUs into the wort.

I find Tinseth over-estimates IBUs in late additions. I have had better results using Rager.

 

[OldWorld]

IBU calculators are worthless. Taste is the final judge. If you have a boil going for 20 minutes some of the compounds will be broken down for bittering. Play it by ear. You are the judge of the final result.

I like to use one variety of high alpha acid hop in the very start of the brew and then use a big wallop of aroma hops at the end...Fine tune it to your taste. The only reason to homebrew is to taste what you like.

To heck with calculators and theory...

 

[pm5k00]

Once the boil is over, you will get no mor IBUs into the wort.

That is simply not true. You can get a decent amount of bitterness from flameout addition, whirlpooling, and mash hoping.

 

[triangulum33]

If you don't cool quickly or want repeatable results bag the hops and remove at flame out

Do you use muslin or nylon bags? Do you put all the additions into the same bag, or have each addition bagged to throw in?

 

[davefleck]

Muslin but plan to make a hop spider to use in my keggle when it is ready

 

[Shift]

A brewery here recently did a beer with only a whirlpool addition, 0 theoretical IBU's but a measured IBU of 87. The wort was left hot for 30 minutes before cooling. 8 grams of hops per litre and all above 9% alpha acids.

 

[grain-pa]

if you don't like too much bitterness in the beer you should try first wort hopping. as an extreme version of this you could add the whole amount to the first wort and leave out the bitter hopping addition (10-15 min after the start of the boil).

for most beers i make i give a first wort hop addition after 10-15 min boil time, a bitter hop addition and - if it is a pilsner - a hop addition 5 to 0 minutes before the end of the boil.

i usually boil for at least 90 min, so that the first wort hop addition and the bitter hop addition have nearly no more influence on the IBUs and in my opinion (as also Tnseth's) the hop additions at the end of the boil also have not much influence.

 

[Piratwolf]

+1 on first wort hopping. You still get bitterness, but it's like the sneaky-hot spiciness of some foods that you don't notice at first and it emerges over time on your palate. I love IPAs, but sometimes get annoyed with the palate-searing, up-front face-punch of standard bittering. I've begun to FWH all my pale ales, abandoning the 60-min additions altogether. It also means I use less hops

FWIW

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