All in One BIAC Electric Brewery: Batch Size Questions

[ron8]

Hi all you fans of electric brewing in a single vessel,

When it comes to the BIAC system from BREWHA, I am very impressed by the ease of operation, cleanup, sanitation, small foot-print offered by the BIAC (in either the small or medium). For the record, I have no affiliation with BREWHA, just an earnest desire to sort out some nagging questions to help me decide on equipment size considerations.

What are your thoughts on the Small vs. the Medium BIAC? Would any of you folks care to help me with your personal experiences and preferences concerning some issues I am wrestling with:

1. Is it important for you to be able to brew 3 to 5 gallon batches, as can be done with Small BIAC, but not larger.
(For reference, the Small BIAC Dimensions: 7 gallons in the cylinder (plus the volume of the cone). Cylinder is 12 in. dia x 12 in. high, per Nathan at BREWHA.

2. Or, would you rather be able to brew 6 to 15 gallon batches as with Medium BIAC, and give up ability to brew 3 gallon batches.
(Medium BIAC Dimensions: 24 gallons in the cylinder portion (plus the volume of the cone). Cylinder is 18 in. dia x 18 in. high.)

3. Small BIAC seems limited in its ability to brew high gravity beer at least in 5 gallon batches, due to its limited vessel size. I think the Small BIAC could probably brew 3 gallon high gravity beers.

4. Are there any brewing styles you think the Small BIAC could not be used for, given its small vessel size.

5. What other considerations am I missing that would require the larger, Medium BIAC?

6. Bottom line ... what's more important from where you stand as experienced, accomplished homebrewers:
A. 3 to 5 gallons batch size, with limited production rate scale-up vs.
B. 6 to 15 gallon batch size, and no ability to do 3 gallon batch size.

I drink 9 or 10 bottles (12 oz) a week. 5 gallon batches would suffice nicely to give me a reasonable frequency of brew days, i.e. could have the fun of brewing more often than making 10 gallons at a time. But, don't want to miss out on flexibility of brewing in a larger system if it makes sense.

I whole-heartedly believe stainless steel, and electric equipment is the way to go.


I appreciate your reading this and any guidance you experienced brewers are willing to share. I recently attended a local home brew club meeting, and asked these kinds of questions of several brewers that night. Many different replies, and still no clear path forward. But it's fun to learn what you have to share.

More about me:
This will be my first step into home brewing. I am an old hand at drinking finer beers. Now I am ready to engage my process engineer self into making and drinking finer beers. I am curious and excited to brew exceptional beers. On a mission to drink all styles and have recently broken from my pale ale and IPA rut to try some belgian blond, saison, sour, imperial IPA and stouts. I will probably begin brewing stouts for awhile.

I have thought of whether or not I will stick with the hobby for more than a year, and know that this is a major investment in a hobby that I have no direct experience in. As of now, I am COMMITTED, or maybe I SHOULD BE COMMITTED TO A HOME for even thinking of doing this. But, I have tasted some home-brews that are OUT OF THIS WORLD GOOD. And I want to be a part of that. I've been reading Homebrewtalk, and Biabrewer.com. I've learned a lot from the Beersmith podcast videos.

...Ron8

 

[snackson]

If you're just starting and not sure if you are going to do this forever, I would go the 3-5 gallon route using BIAB on the stovetop. If you are set on a BIAC, go with the small BIAC. It will come with everything you need except for a hydrometer and all the bottling equipment. I am drooling over the 55 gallon BIAC, I would just have to sell off all my other stuff to pay for it though.

 

[ron8]

Thanks for your reply Snackson.
What are your thoughts on brewing small (3 to 5 gallon) batches, vs. 10 gallon?
- Ron8

 

[snackson]

Everyone starts with small batches and a lot of people stay with small batches. The reason I increased my size is because my time got a lot more limited. I know once I hit shore duty next year I will have more time to brew and a lot more people to consume said brew so the bigger batches are better. I currently brew 15-20 gallon batches. I started with 5 gallons and found I was going through it a lot quicker and once I went to all grain with all the hassle I started brewing 10 gallon batches.

 

[Jimmy82]

What are your thoughts on the Small vs. the Medium BIAC? Would any of you folks care to help me with your personal experiences and preferences concerning some issues I am wrestling with:

1. Is it important for you to be able to brew 3 to 5 gallon batches, as can be done with Small BIAC, but not larger.
(For reference, the Small BIAC Dimensions: 7 gallons in the cylinder (plus the volume of the cone). Cylinder is 12 in. dia x 12 in. high, per Nathan at BREWHA.

I don't ever see myself doing a 3 gallon batch, but 5 is standard (a single keg).

2. Or, would you rather be able to brew 6 to 15 gallon batches as with Medium BIAC, and give up ability to brew 3 gallon batches.
(Medium BIAC Dimensions: 24 gallons in the cylinder portion (plus the volume of the cone). Cylinder is 18 in. dia x 18 in. high.)

I'd much rather have the ability to brew 6-15. I brewed 5 gallon batches up until I purchased a BIAC, and now I strictly do 10 gallon. It gives you twice as much beer for the same amount of work. If you REALLY want to brew a single batch, the 6 gallon option is still there for you.

6. Bottom line ... what's more important from where you stand as experienced, accomplished homebrewers:
A. 3 to 5 gallons batch size, with limited production rate scale-up vs.
B. 6 to 15 gallon batch size, and no ability to do 3 gallon batch size.

Generally, starting off small is a good idea, but mostly because of investment. In my opinion, if you're going to lay out the cash for a small BIAC, you should jump right to the standard BIAC...you'll thank yourself later. When I got into brewing, I started with 5 gallon batches, never saw myself going larger, and now I can barely keep up supply with 10 gallon batches. You start giving beer away, having people come over who drink it, etc..it can go pretty quick. Aside from this, you'll likely start kegging with 5 gallon kegs, so you will want to brew in multiples of 5 gallons (you don't have to, it's just the way most people go when they get tired of bottling).

Either way, the BIAC is an awesome setup. I despise labour/cleanup on brew days. The BIAC is simple and fun to brew on..I actually WANT to brew with the BIAC. On brew day there are no carboys to clean, no pots caked with hops, etc. You rinse the mash colander out while your wort is coming to a boil..and that's it.

 

[ron8]

Jimmy82,

Thanks for your advice.

Have you ever done a 6 gallon batch in your BIAC? How was the liquid to grain contact, mixing. Did you consider circulating wort while mashing?

I totally agree the BIAC is a solid concept, minimal sanitation, a major plus. And for long term I think it's better to go bigger. I expect to be in this long time, especially with the ease of use.

Thanks...Ron8

 

[Jimmy82]

Jimmy82,

Thanks for your advice.

Have you ever done a 6 gallon batch in your BIAC? How was the liquid to grain contact, mixing. Did you consider circulating wort while mashing?

I totally agree the BIAC is a solid concept, minimal sanitation, a major plus. And for long term I think it's better to go bigger. I expect to be in this long time, especially with the ease of use.

Thanks...Ron8

I haven't done a 6 gallon batch, so I can't speak to that.

As for recirculating the wort while mashing, I generally keep the element set to mash temp and the pump on to slowly recirculate the wort. You don't want to recirculate too quickly, you could end up with all of the wort on top of the grain bed and dry fire the element. With all of that being said, I'm not sure either needs to be on during the mash. If you hit your mash temp from the beginning, the amount that the mash would drop is likely insignificant considering conversion times on modern malts.

 

[ron8]

Given 45 cm dia x 45 cm high cylinder section, plus cone volume, I expect the 6 gallon batch would have a pretty low mash slurry (liquid) level. How high up the cylinder is the liquid level with a 10 gallon batch?

 

[Jimmy82]

Given 45 cm dia x 45 cm high cylinder section, plus cone volume, I expect the 6 gallon batch would have a pretty low mash slurry (liquid) level. How high up the cylinder is the liquid level with a 10 gallon batch?

That may be the case, but I'd think recirculating would help with that (you may be able to keep the grain bed more saturated). For my most recent 10 gallon batch I did an IPA, however, I upped my volumes by a couple of liters to make up for loss to hops. There was about 29.5lbs of grain and 61 liters of water in during the mash. With that batch, the colander was about 2/3 full.

 

[ron8]

Thanks Jimmy82...I am a bit closer, asked some questions of Nathan and just send off a few more. Will post some feedback next day or so. Work a bit heavy right now.

 

[limulus]

If you're just starting and not sure if you are going to do this forever, I would go the 3-5 gallon route using BIAB on the stovetop. If you are set on a BIAC, go with the small BIAC. It will come with everything you need except for a hydrometer and all the bottling equipment. I am drooling over the 55 gallon BIAC, I would just have to sell off all my other stuff to pay for it though.

I apologize if I take this off into a slightly different direction. But, I just quickly looked at this system. Since snackson mentioned a 55gal version, I clicked on it. For $2760, you get everything except the electronics and a valve that controls the water flow through the outer jacket.

Now, if you bought 4 of those, you are into a 7bbl system for $11,040. Edit: It is actually 6bbl, I forgot to account for head space in the 55g. You need to add the controls and a 5500 watt element. Just to keep it plug-n-play, you could buy this 240v PID controller for $260:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KLWNW4S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

You would need 4ea, so another $1,040 plus 4 elements. The Brewha BIAC element looks nice for $215ea. So another $860. Now, I obviously am no electrician and running four of those things may not be feasible.

Maybe filling the jackets with water as you heat the strike water would warm that outer water which in turn would insulate the whole thing better and you could probably hold your mash temp for an hour and not even need a temp controller.

Now, you have a 7bbl brewery for <$13k. So for a nano brewer on a seriously tight budget, you could actually be a micro-brewer. Realistically, you would need more stuff like a BBT, kegs, keg washer, pumps, small glycol system, maybe an electric HLT, grain mill (or you could buy pre-crushed), CO2, O2, walk-in cooler, etc. But who knows, for $30k...???

 

[limulus]

Okay, I got some info from the company. The price I have above for $2760 does not include the mash tun portion of the system. I think the idea is you can have multiple bottom sections for fermenting as add-ons. The complete 55gal package includes the mash colander, the 3-in-1, two elements, two controllers, pumps valves and all the other accessories for $5690.

 

[ron8]

Hi Jimmy82 and those participating here,

I'm back after a totally disconnected week of vacation. Thanks for your contributions to this thread.

Here are some bits of info Nathan at BREWHA has so kindly offered relative to using the medium BIAC at its minimum batch size (on the BREWHA site = 6 gallons.)

A 1.25:1 water:grain ratio used in Nathan's example for a minimum batch size, single step mash, taking into account the material in the colander only; excluding any liquid filling the cone and any cylinder portion beneath the colander bottom. The water in the cone is not expected to participate in the mash, except to circulate after removing the colander during vorlauf and if desired for sparging. Just stir manually occasionally during the mash. I think I have learned that stirring during mash is something we all should do, irregardless of type of mash tun, to thoroughly mix the grain and water, to avoid doughballs, and to assure even temperature throughout.

The 5500W heating element can deal with heating extra water that might be needed to keep the mash from being too thick. And it can bring down the wort volume during the boil to the desired volume.

Only put a valve downstream of the pump, to help with preventing cavitating the pump.

Watch the liquid level when running the pump. If it rises more than 1 or 2 cm, pump is pushing too fast (throttle back), or have a stuck mash.

Time to complete the mash 5 gallon (vs. 10 gal). Thinner mash might be slightly slower: less contact of carbs and enzymes. But there are a lot of variables (acc. to Nathan's comment.) Just food for thought.

That's all I have to report. My feelings are that the medium BIAC can be used at the minimum batch size (6 gallons) with little or no concern for quality of the beer produced. I have been searching for any and all reasons to ferret out that could tip my decision one way or the other. The small BIAC has 3 advantages that a new brewer would need to consider, in my personal opinion order of importance:
1. Can brew 3 gallon batches enabling the brewer to "play around" with small and experimental batches.
2. Lower initial equipment cost.

3. Uses 120V power. My garage power would require addition of 240V circuit to brew there.


In favor of the medium BIAC:

1. Allows for bigger batches. Many seasoned brewers brew 5 gallon batches, and some quite often brew 10 gallons. I have also seen/heard on Beersmith some home brew celebrities talk about brewing 3 gallon batches of BIAB and seem to be very content doing that. But, the BIAC has that beat in terms of sanitation and cleanup, at least in my opinion from what I've read. As you all know by now, I have never brewed a batch in my life as yet. Do you need bigger batch capability? Or, wouldn't it be reasonable to just brew more small batches? I can see a future where I might brew 5 gallon batches consecutively and just transfer the first batch immediately to a carboy and then brew the next batch the next day.

2. Uses 5500W heating element. More power. More vigorous boil. This can be debated. And I think Nathan would defend the small BIAC and the smaller heating element output as sufficient for the kettle size. I watched the video he made with the small and it looked like it was boiling sufficiently hard.

3. No concern of having insufficient head space above the wort level during boil. I've read many a post that recommended to have a large empty volume above the wort level. That is surely the case when using the medium BIAC for 5 and very likely for 10 gallon batches. (the medium is able to brew up to 15 gallon batches.)

May be other key considerations you folks could add. I think the medium is the way to go, if you decide to commit yourself to this hobby. There are so many people brewing for many years using plastic mash tuns who are master home brewers. They probably think people like me and you who like stainless steel materials, electronic controls, ease of cleanup and sanitation, and on.. are nuts for forking over $ for machines like the BIAC. So be it. And to each their own.

More comments...keep this thread going...Thanks for your ideas...Ron8