All Grain vs. Extract from a price perspective...

[DarkUncle]

Hi guys,

I did an PM using my 10 gal mash tun this past weekend. The darn thing clogged up on me almost instantly but I think I have a very good idea why and will adjust accordingly. But the temps held great even with the low volume of a PM. Only dropped to 155* from 158* after just about an hour.

Therefore, I am definitely ready for a complete all grain run. I had read about how much cheaper it is from extract. I'm sorry but I just don't see that. Where do you all shop? In looking at the more popular big vendors online, there just isn't much of a price difference at all. I've priced it using the all grain kits and also just putting the ingredients together from scratch. Perhaps buying locally would make a difference but I will have to look into that.

Is it maybe due to buying grain in bulk that it gets cheaper? But that will lead to shelf life issues I would think and a bigger layout of cash initially.

Thoughts?

 

[buzzkill]

this hobbie will take alot of your money away, "resistance is futile". :rockin:

 

[iparks81]

the last PM beer that I made cost $43 now that I'm brewing all-grain its down to 30 ish per recipe

Grains are waaaayy cheaper than extract
$11.97 for 3 lb DME vs 3 lb 2-row $3.60 (austinhomebrew.com)

Its not as drastic of a price drop than going strain from extract beer to all grain, but I still think its worth it.

 

[Beerrific]

Obviously you can't compare pound of pound as you are going to get more sugar from 1lb of DME than grain.

An example, in 5 gallons, to reach OG 1.050:

-It takes about 9.6lbs of domestic 2-row (70% eff.). Cost: 9.6lb*$1.15/lb=$11.04

-It takes 6.75lb of LME. Cost: 6.75lb*$2.75/lb=$18.56

These prices are from Brewmaster's Warehouse. The savings will also be amplified if you can buy the malt in bulk and don't have to place an order everytime you want to brew (less shipping; this assumes that you want to always have fresh extract). These cost converge if your efficiency drops to 42%.

 

[mychalg9]

Most of my AG recipes cost under $30, and I'm not even buying in bulk or reusing yeast. All the extract kits I did were over $40.

 

[DarkUncle]

There's definitely benefit but I'm not so sure price is really a major one. 3lbs of extract results in more gravity points than 3lbs. of grain though. You have to buy more of the grain and by then it's not much different from the extract. Maybe a few dollars but that's it.

Trust me, I'm dropping cash right and left and I have no problem doing so on this hobby. I was just making sure I'm not missing something here and getting ripped off by shopping in the wrong places that's all.

My next purchase will be a grain mill. I will probably ask Santa for that one though instead of running out and grabbing one now. Would spare me another one of those evil death stares from the wife.

 

[maida7]

Obviously you can't compare pound of pound as you are going to get more sugar from 1lb of DME than grain.

An example, in 5 gallons, to reach OG 1.050:

-It takes about 9.6lbs of domestic 2-row (70% eff.). Cost: 9.6lb*$1.15/lb=$11.04

-It takes 6.75lb of LME. Cost: 6.75lb*$2.75/lb=$18.56

These prices are from Brewmaster's Warehouse. The savings will also be amplified if you can buy the malt in bulk and don't have to place an order everytime you want to brew (less shipping; this assumes that you want to always have fresh extract). These cost converge if your efficiency drops to 42%.

That's fairly accurate. The only cost savings is gonna be in the malt. Hops, yeast propane, cleaner, etc... will cost the same for AG as extract.

BUT

If you buy in bulk then you can make some serious savings. Bulk grain can run anywhere from 1.00 per lb down to 50 or 60 cents per lb. That makes it a bit cheaper.

Then buy your hops in bulk andRe pitch yeast and you could be doing batches for wicked cheap.

BUT

you will find some fancy equipment to blow your money on and make up all those savings in one silly impulse buy.

Life is full of ups and downs. Enjoy the ride

 

[hal2814]

I save some with all-grain. My LHBS charges $1.50/lb for base grain and $20 for 6lbs of bulk LME. It takes me roughly 8lbs of base grain to get the same gravity as I get from the 6lbs of LME so that's $12 of grain or $20 of extract. But both grain and extract prices vary wildly so YMMV. If you're looking to cut costs, a near-universal place to do that is washing yeast.

As far as equipment goes, there are many equipment-light methods for all-grain brewing. I'm personally not a gear-head but even I have amassed stuff over the course of time like my keggle and my 10 gallon MLT. But I've spent a total of $30 on both items since I scavenged materials as I come across them. The only things I paid money from were the $12 angle grinder, some fittings for each, and the braided hose. I would've had to lay out a lot more cash if I didn't have my equipment-averse all-grain setup available while I was scavenging (which was a $10 digital thermometer, a $2 grain bag, a $10 unmodified cooler, and a $25 enamelware 8 gallon pot).

 

[wilserbrewer]

Hi guys,


Is it maybe due to buying grain in bulk that it gets cheaper? But that will lead to shelf life issues I would think and a bigger layout of cash initially.

Thoughts?

Bulk grain is around half of what most charge per pound. Buy a sack, it lasts a long time. Kept cool and dry, likely a year.

 

[seanybubbles]

I find this argument really doesn't go anywhere when you consider you can buy a case of bud, keystone or Miller high life for cheaper then you can brew it. I figure just use whatever method (AG, PM...) suits you. If I used the cost factor as the deciding factor of what I brew then I would never brew IPA's, and I love IPA's............

 

[CrookedTail]

I'm always looking to keep the costs down on my brews. Lately I've been using more LME, which brings the costs down compared to using DME. 6lbs of Northern Brewer Pilsen or Gold LME goes for $15.99.

I've taken some of my recipes and converted them to PM (I don't have the space/stove to brew AG), and the costs are almost identical.

So it's basically gotten to the point where I only use a PM if the recipe requires malts that I can't steep or find in extract form (Vienna, Munich, flaked grains, etc). If the recipe is strictly two-row or pilsner malt with specialty grains, then i just stick with extract with grains.

I've gotten to the point where I'm happy using extract. I'm concentrating more on my fermentation process. My beers have gotten so much better since I've started improving in that area. I'm looking to get a small fridge and a temperature control for Christmas.

 

[DarkUncle]

I find this argument really doesn't go anywhere when you consider you can buy a case of bud, keystone or Miller high life for cheaper then you can brew it. I figure just use whatever method (AG, PM...) suits you. If I used the cost factor as the deciding factor of what I brew then I would never brew IPA's, and I love IPA's............

Well, I certainly don't consider those beers you listed as being comparable to good home brew at all. Now compare it to perhaps Sam Adams for instance and well, you won't be buying 5 gallons of Sam Adams for $35...

 

[HoppyMaltPoet]

I have brewed an all grain SMaSH for under $15 and it tasted great.

$10 for grain (bought in bulk)
$3 for Hops (bought in bulk)
$1.60 for yeast

But then again, since I went All Grain I seem to be spending about $100 dollars every other weekend on new toys/equipment, etc. I think I had the same extract kit for 6 years before I made the jump to AG and all I spent my money on was the $40 kits. Now...the beer itself might be cheaper but dear God I have spent more money then I will ever recoup on my savings per batch. Not that I would ever go back, I love the hobby and wouldn't spend it if I didn't.

 

[jmo88]

this hobbie will take alot of your money away, "resistance is futile". :rockin:

+$1,000

If I wasn't willing to spend some extra money to upgrade, this hobby would start to lose interest for me. Everyone does it for the beer, sure, but it is much more than that really. Just ask the guys over in the DIY forum.

The one thing I don't miss about extract brewing is buying bottled water. Beside that, extract was a cakewalk of a brew day, and that counts for something.

 

[Eddiebosox]

Whenever I go to AHS to buy recipe kits and choose the all grain option, the price drops about ten bucks.

Plus if you buy a 55 pound bag of 2 row for 50 bucks, that will cover your base grains for a large portion of beers and you'd be set for a while, only spending money on smaller parts of the grain bills, hops and yeasts.

 

[DarkUncle]

Unfortunately I don't have a basement, only a garage. Probably good for storing grain in the cooler months but not in summertime. I suppose once I'm experienced enough to know what homebrew I love best, I can order bulk of the needed grain and churn out batch after batch of it.

Price seems to be one of the first things people ask me about. "Does it cost less than buying it?" When I say a little bit but there's more to it than just money and I get the blank stare and response of "seems like alot of work", I don't take it any further. They just don't understand...

 

[maida7]

Unfortunately I don't have a basement, only a garage. Probably good for storing grain in the cooler months but not in summertime. I suppose once I'm experienced enough to know what homebrew I love best, I can order bulk of the needed grain and churn out batch after batch of it.

You can store your bulk grain in the garage as long as it's in an air tight container. I use the 5 gallon plastic buckets and lids from home depot or lowes.

I like to buy just the base grains (2-row, pilsner, wheat, etc..) in bulk then buy the specialty grains (crystal, chocolate, victory, etc...) at regular price as I need them for whatever recipe happens to catch my eye.

If you buy your grain in bulk you will need a mill. It takes several batches of bulk grains to pay off the mill investment.

 

[kellynm]

If you buy your grain in bulk you will need a mill. It takes several batches of bulk grains to pay off the mill investment.

My local hb club has a mill and any club member can borrow it when they are ready to mill there own grains... might check into that if it is a possibility for you...

 

[waldoar15]

Like the others have said, bulk buying is the key.

I get my 2 row base malt for $43 a 50 lb bag. 6 row is $30 something. That's local, pick up, no tax or shipping. (grain=food=no sales tax here).

Buying all grain kits online pretty much costs almost as much as extract.

 

[HH60gunner]

I have two local homebrew stores here in tucson. The last extract kit I did was a porter and cost me $40 for the kit and another $7 for the yeast. This last christmas ale (all grain) that I brewed up cost me $16 for the grain (mind you it's higher gravity than my extract porter), and I re-used the yeast from my last all-grain batch. Oh, and $2 for some fuggles. So the grand total was $18, if you don't include the spices I used that were already in my spice cabinet.

 

[2bluewagons]

I think the summary of this thread is that AG can provide some cost savings, but likely will cause one to upgrade equipment. Overall, cost will not be the major motivator for going to AG.

For me it is the smell of 14lb of grain hitting the strike water, and the magic that 60 minutes later you have sweet wort. Also, my beer got much tastier by my 2nd or 3rd AG batch. And with control of mash temps, I can dial in the FG on beers instead of leaving up to whatever extract and yeast combination is used.

To me, it is a no-brainer. Go AG and don't look back. Extract will always be there if you want to visit.

 

[IamNash]

There is something amazing about taking a sack of grain, a packet of yeast, and a handful of hops and ending up with beer, the same way it has been done by those who came before us for centuries.