All Grain Vs BIAB - Pro's & Con's (5 Gal Batches)

[Rake_Rocko]

Managing mash temps is pretty easy with the larger volume of water.

This. Last time I brewed a 5 gallon batch, I mashed at 152 and the temp only dropped 2 degrees in a 60 mash.

Another good thing about BIAB is that you really do not need to do a mash out. Mash out is basically to stop conversion, and since you are taking the grains out of the hot liquid, that essentially stops conversion right there. Just one less thing I have to worry about on brew day. :rockin:

 

[alers22]

I found a really successful alternative to holding the grain bag suspended above the kettle. I use an Ale Pale with an upside down plastic colander in the bottom. I lift the bag and hold it for a few seconds to let it drain then place it in the bucket on the colander. I use a 10" pot lid and press down on the bag. I press it a few times then dump the wort into the kettle. I repeat this a few times, re-positioning the bag as necessary.

No sore arms and I get every drop of wort out of that bag!! Works great!

 

[weirdboy]

This. Last time I brewed a 5 gallon batch, I mashed at 152 and the temp only dropped 2 degrees in a 60 mash.

Another good thing about BIAB is that you really do not need to do a mash out. Mash out is basically to stop conversion, and since you are taking the grains out of the hot liquid, that essentially stops conversion right there. Just one less thing I have to worry about on brew day. :rockin:

The enzymes and sugars are already in the liquid by the time you pull the bag out, so removing the bag does nothing to stop conversion. However, you are (nearly) immediately heating up that liquid to mash out temps anyway as soon as you pull the bag out, so it's a moot point.

 

[luke_d]

Hoppus, I am totally trying this next time. In a five gallon cooler, how much grain could I mash in that? With all the water?

 

[Yooper]

I used to brew 5 gal AG batches cooler style for many years then sold all my stuff and downsized to 2.5 gal BIAB. I'm having more fun now experimenting with these smaller batches and get great efficiencies of 75-85%.

I tend to agree with others that larger batches may be better off with a MLT system.

Hoppus, I am totally trying this next time. In a five gallon cooler, how much grain could I mash in that? With all the water?

With a 5 gallon mash tun, you're limited to about 4.5 total volume with the grain and water. In a traditional mash, you'd be limited to about 12 pounds of grain (at 1.25 quarts/pound).

If you're making a 5 gallon batch, I assume you'd start with a 6.5 gallon boil. 6.5 gallons of liquid won't fit in a 5 gallon cooler, not to mention the grain and of course the liquid absorbed by the grain.

But if you would sparge, then you'd have no issues.

 

[luke_d]

Yooper, I should have specified. I do 3 gallon batches. So a 6 or 7 pound grain bill will be about between 2 - 2.5 gallons of strike water. Adding the grains, would that fit in a five gallon cooler?

 

[mikeysab]

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

Go down to "Can I mash it"? And plug in your numbers. It'll tell you how big of a mash tun you need.

 

[gozer]

I have had great results with BIAB. It works best with the bitters I've been making that typically come in under 1.045. I have found that more grains (1.055+) means lower efficiency. I have a 32q pot and with the false bottom in there I think I am limiting the space that the grains can spread out and do their thing.

Next time I do a higher gravity brew I think I'll just leave out the bottom so the grains can have the whole pot. It's only purpose is to keep them off the heat, and the mash has been holding its temp pretty well without turning on the burners.

Lifting the bag is not a problem, just gather and lift slowly so the water has a chance to drain, then transfer to another pot with a strainer (I use an upside-down steamer and it works great).

BIAB is great, but I think a big beer would be pushing it - I think I would have to double mash to do anything over 1.06.

 

[alestateyall]

I have done BIAB about 5 times and batch sparge about 15. One big benefit of no sparge BIAB is you only have to heat one pot of water. I heat 8 gallons of water to strike temp, add grains, stir, and then wait 1 hour before removing the bag.

With batch sparge I heat strike water, add grain, stir, wait one hour,then heat mash out water, stir, drain, then heat sparge water, stir and drain.

Heating three pots of water versus one is but annoying.

The total water volume is about the same either way so there is no difference is propane cost.

It's just a simplicity thing.

PS. I do both methods because I think both are pretty cool. I love the engineering part of brewing. I have done fly sparge a few times to.

 

[alestateyall]

1 gallon of water weighs 8.35 pounds.

Grain absorbs about 0.1 gallon per pound.

So a 10# grain bill will absorb about 1 gallon of water and weigh about 18.35# when lifted out of the kettle.

A 20# grain bill absorb about 2 gallons of water and weigh about 36.7# when lifted out of the kettle.

My grain bills are usually 10-15# so I haven't had a problem lifting the bag without a pulley.

 

[RM-MN]

I have done BIAB about 5 times and batch sparge about 15. One big benefit of no sparge BIAB is you only have to heat one pot of water. I heat 8 gallons of water to strike temp, add grains, stir, and then wait 1 hour before removing the bag.

With batch sparge I heat strike water, add grain, stir, wait one hour,then heat mash out water, stir, drain, then heat sparge water, stir and drain.

Heating three pots of water versus one is but annoying.

The total water volume is about the same either way so there is no difference is propane cost.

It's just a simplicity thing.

PS. I do both methods because I think both are pretty cool. I love the engineering part of brewing. I have done fly sparge a few times to.

Who said you had to use hot water to sparge with? I use cold water and not too much of it and the hot grains heat the water to improve the solubility of the sugar. I find it easier as I don't have to heat the water nor do I have to worry about splashing the hot water on myself. You should try it once and see how it affects your efficiency. I also don't do a mashout because as soon as the bag of grain is out of the pot the burner is on to heat to boil. That accomplishes the mashout. One pot, one bowl to set the grains in while they drain and I'm mashing.

 

[wilserbrewer]

1 gallon of water weighs 8.35 pounds.

Grain absorbs about 0.1 gallon per pound.

So a 10# grain bill will absorb about 1 gallon of water and weigh about 18.35# when lifted out of the kettle.

A 20# grain bill absorb about 2 gallons of water and weigh about 36.7# when lifted out of the kettle.

My grain bills are usually 10-15# so I haven't had a problem lifting the bag without a pulley.

Not to nit pick, but find it interesting...A 10 lb grain bill will leave behind 5-6 lbs of sugars......a 35 lb grain bill, well drained after leaving the kettle should weigh about, say 35 lb, maybe less...I should collect some data

 

[alestateyall]

Not to nit pick, but find it interesting...A 10 lb grain bill will leave behind 5-6 lbs of sugars......a 35 lb grain bill, well drained after leaving the kettle should weigh about, say 35 lb, maybe less...I should collect some data

Good point about the sugars. I was just trying to quantify how heavy, or not heavy depending on your perspective, a wet bag if grain is.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have done 35 lb BIAB grain bills. I find the key is to slowly raise the bag allowing it to drain as it exits the kettle...no way you're getting the bag out in one quick lift because in the beginning it is like a 15 gallon bag of wort, haha.

 

[GatorBru]

I will just echo some others who find BIAB great for a smaller 2.5 or 3 gallon batch. I don't need to break out all the equipment, I can chill the kettle in a deep sink and wrap up the brew day, then it's transfer and pitch. I am not dragging hoses, cleaning a plate chiller, (in fl I find immersion chillers painfully slow since my tap is about 78 degrees) etc. one kettle, can do it in the air conditioned comfort of my kitchen.

If I put more effort into a 5 gallon BIAB setup with a pulley system, I think you would still save time, but for me at least, once I'm cleaning a chiller and breaking out the propane, it's just easier to me to go with the MLT and a march pump.

Not bashing it, I think for smaller AG batches biab is the way to go and let's me brew more, saves time and for me anyway, lots of cleaning. And I don't know anyone that just digs cleaning!

 

[kh54s10]

I BIAB smaller (test) batches and would never consider doing a five gallon batch without creating some sort of winch system. (I am not getting any younger.) I don't enjoy the hot sticky mess with BIAB.

I have the proper equipment for HLT, mash tun, boil kettle so I find it just as easy but it takes longer, which sometimes is making the fun last longer.

I don't find that I have significantly different results either way.

 

[itsme_timd]

Glad I saw this thread today as this is a topic I was just research mash tun setups after a nightmarish BIAB brew day yesterday. Long story short, I had a large plastic collander that just fit across the top of my pot. After mashing the grains I put the bag in the collander to drain. The hot grain made the collander flex and it felling into my pot and I lost a good amount of wort. In hindsight I should have seen this as a possibility but it is what it is. I intend to purchase a cooler to mash in so as not to have to mess with that again.

 

[woknblues]

I have brewed on a friend's all grain traditional system and I waited until BIAB to actually do it on my own. I have limited time and space to brew, with a baby and a house needing care/repair. As such, I find most of my mods are related to ease of use, and speed.

I am heating my strike on the stove as I get my equipment together, then I take my strike over to the propane SP1 "jet" and within a few minutes, I am at strike, dump grains into bag and mash. Recheck temps every 15 minutes or so, then pull grains and place into bucket with colander. Fire up burner, add run off from bag and boil for 60-90 minutes, then, ideally, no chill into an HDPE and pitch the next day. My whole brew day is around 3.5 hours. Last brew day, I brewed a double batch of two different beers in about 6.5 hours, and the extra hour was finishing my boil on the stove after running out of propane.

I have found the following "contrary" points in my use of BIAB/no chill, namely; high efficiency (80+%), no discernable DMS or astringency and crystal clear beers.

 

[dstranger99]

Glad I saw this thread today as this is a topic I was just research mash tun setups after a nightmarish BIAB brew day yesterday. Long story short, I had a large plastic collander that just fit across the top of my pot. After mashing the grains I put the bag in the collander to drain. The hot grain made the collander flex and it felling into my pot and I lost a good amount of wort. In hindsight I should have seen this as a possibility but it is what it is. I intend to purchase a cooler to mash in so as not to have to mess with that again.

You need a heavy metal collander that fits like a glove to be successful using that method, I personally just set the bag over another pot, squeeze the **** out of it, and add the wort back in.........

 

[PackerfaninSanDiego]

I have a 10 gal mash tun that Santa gave me,,,got it all set up to go AG and have yet to use it...After asking a lot of questions about sparging, quite a few members said I should try the BIAB method. I bought a custom bag from wilserbrewer, brewed up a batch of cream ale using a pulley attached to my garage door header. I watched a bunch of youtube videos on BIAB and I did not want to lift the bag with my bare hands.(accident waiting to happen) Today I'm going to BIAB for the 2nd time. This Saturday my LHBS is putting on a AG Demo and maybe after going to this demo, I may or may not go to AG using my mash tun. As a couple guys have said,it all depends what works for you. I will eventually try the AG with mash tun but I doubt I will ever go back to extracts.

 

[rmaloney86]

I have done both methods, I'm set up to do both methods, both can produce the same great beer. In the end I prefer the BIAB method. Mostly for consistency, the fewer moving parts the less that can go wrong. For me equipment cost wasn't the issue.

Brewing is beautiful in that it is as easy or complicated as we want to make it. To each his own.

Its kinda funny though that we spend so much time talking about the brewing process but the real money is in fermentation process.

 

[itsme_timd]

You need a heavy metal collander that fits like a glove to be successful using that method, I personally just set the bag over another pot, squeeze the **** out of it, and add the wort back in.........

Yeah, a thinking man wouldn't have sat a huge bag of 155F grain in a flimsy plastic collander!

 

[gizmodog51]

joined the BIAB team earlier in the year.

was collecting my equipment when i signed on with the forum.
learned a lot here.....

my set-up... a metal cabinet on rollers. my burner sets on top of the cabinet. mounted one 2"x4"x 8' centered on each side of the cabinet. this was to be used in conjuction with a metal pipe as a windlass , much like an old well has to bring up the bucket. further trails determined i needed taller 2x4 to achieve the lift height required to remove bagged grains. taller would not allow me to move out from under the cabanna if needed....so....punted and observered a hook hanging from my cabanna frame. this seemed to be a perfect solution , about 12' off the ground if only it could support the weight???after testing with 50+ lbs the frame proved reliable so purchased a pulley with a ring on one end to slide over the hook and used paracord style rope to remove bagged grains by hand......this arrangment became an unwelcomed task. eventually purchased a hand crank winch from tractor supply. $19.00. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/hand-winch-600-lb-pulling-capacity?cm_vc=-10005.
mounted the winch on one of the 2x4 at chest height, used the same rope already was using with the pulley hanging from the cabanna hook.
this set-up has worked well. the cabinet has two doors that swing out to allow for storage in the cabinet. i usually put two 20lb barbells on the floor to stablize the cabinet....maybe over kill with the burner & pot full of wort already adding weight but i guess it helps anyways.
now i can lift the grain bag just above the water level, let it drain then remove it enough to slide a oven rack under the bag which rests on the pot.
lower the bag to lightly rest on the rack as the water is squeezed out.
this works pretty good since i don't have to remove the bag with wort dripping from it to another container to squeeze & drain it. this method has proved to be very successful having no standing wort in the bucket which the grain is stored in after rendering the grain bag. in the earlier trials i had purchased a com-a-long for the lifting task after further analysis the idea didn't pan out returned the com-a-long for the winch which has given me total security & control over the lifting task...

GD51

 

[MTate37]

I've done full volume BIAB for my last two batches and love the process. Maybe it is because I'm new but it still takes me quite a while. As far as the weight issue goes I gradually pull the bag so that a lot drains as I pull it, then put a little muscle into it so I can get it just high enough to slide a cooling rack under it.

For my last brew I sparged for the first time and it was a bit of a PITA since I had about 20 lbs of grain and I dunk sparged in a 5 gallon bucket. Do you guys see any noticeable difference from a sparge in full volume BIAB?

I've also mashed out on both of my BIAB brews, but after reading some of the comments here it seems like I could do without this step as well. What do y'all think?

 

[tonyc318]

I've done full volume BIAB for my last two batches and love the process. Maybe it is because I'm new but it still takes me quite a while. As far as the weight issue goes I gradually pull the bag so that a lot drains as I pull it, then put a little muscle into it so I can get it just high enough to slide a cooling rack under it.

For my last brew I sparged for the first time and it was a bit of a PITA since I had about 20 lbs of grain and I dunk sparged in a 5 gallon bucket. Do you guys see any noticeable difference from a sparge in full volume BIAB?

I've also mashed out on both of my BIAB brews, but after reading some of the comments here it seems like I could do without this step as well. What do y'all think?

Personally, after trying to sparge and doing a mashout a couple times, I've stopped doing either. Now that Im getting in a routine, Im getting around 75% eff. What I like the most about BIAB is that I don't really need to sparge or mashout. I'm not worried about continued enzymatic activity because Im heating toward a boil right after pulling out the grains. I also stir the mash really well every time I check temps and right before I pull the grains to make sure I get a good amount of the sugar. The only time I would sparge is if I needed more for my preboil volume.

 

[BPal75]

I don't sparge my full boil BIAB. Instead I leave the grains in after mashing and on my way to the boil, pulling them out at 168F. Effectively a mash out. I figure the higher temps make the sugars more soluble and might help dissolve more sugars trapped in the grain.

Because it a full boil BIAB the mash is so thin, I don't think you need separate sparge water to accomplish this task like you do in a traditional mash which is much thicker.

I don't know if any of this is technically correct, but it made intuitive sense to me (sugar dissolves easier in hotter water) and I've been able to consistently get 85 percent efficiency using this method for the last 5 batches.

 

[boscobeans]

I use a 50 quart mash tun (cooler) with a stainless grill that is formed to hug the bottom with about 1/4 inch below it. One side is bent to fit just over the drain. I line the entire thing with a fitted voile panel that is clipped in place.

Basically it's a combination system that has worked for me. It seems to drain the most from my grain and gives me a good efficiency %. Since I let the mash drain out before I remove the liner it is a lot easier to handle than just lifting a bag of "liquid mash".

bosco

 

[wobdee]

I don't sparge my full boil BIAB. Instead I leave the grains in after mashing and on my way to the boil, pulling them out at 168F. Effectively a mash out. I figure the higher temps make the sugars more soluble and might help dissolve more sugars trapped in the grain.

Because it a full boil BIAB the mash is so thin, I don't think you need separate sparge water to accomplish this task like you do in a traditional mash which is much thicker.

I don't know if any of this is technically correct, but it made intuitive sense to me (sugar dissolves easier in hotter water) and I've been able to consistently get 85 percent efficiency using this method for the last 5 batches.

Same here, no sparge and it doesn't hurt anything to leave the grains in there and remove at mashout temp since you have to bring it up to boil anyways.

My efficiencies run 75-85% depending on the size of the brew, the larger the less efficient.

 

[tahoeguy]

For me, I changed and evolved as my equipment changed and evolved. I started AG with the traditional cooler mash tun, one burner and a hodge podge structure. Went to BIAB to make things simple and enjoyed brewing about 15 batches that way.
Built a three tier structure from a garage storage rack, added a second burner and find going back to my mash tun AG set up is now a more enjoyable and even easier way to brew.
For me, both at 73% efficiency, both about 4.5 hours from start to finished cleaning, both great beers.

 

[gizmodog51]

i'm on the no sparge team also.......

i drain the bag and squeeze withthe bag resting upon an oven rack perched over the pot.

i do mash out however i mean it's just for 10-15 minutes i can't see the need to by pass it.

by the time i finish rendering the grains they are dry though damp and the chickens love them when set a side to cool.

brew on:rockin:.... love the BIAB thanx to the aussies!

GD5