Lots of very good info above so I’ll be brief: KEGGING. Without hesitation.
All Grain or kegging?
- Thread starter Teufelhunde
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Joining the conversation a little late... when I first started brewing we did extract and bottled. Nowadays I do both all grain and keg. I think, by far the greatest timesaver to me was kegging. Bottling always seemed like a ton of work. I like the convenience of going to the kegerator and pouring exactly how much beer I want. Sometimes it's just a few ounces... sometimes it's a full pour. Yes, it's going to be a bit of an outlay, but as others have noted, it can be done on the cheep. Craigslist is your friend. Get a refrigerator, you won't have to lift heavy kegs over the lip of a chest freezer.
It's a reasonable point, and I've made that justification plenty of times. On the other hand, it's hard to keep track of your consumption with a free flowing tap. At least with bottling you can count the empties. It's a good and a bad thing.
So true, i went from bottling to kegging back to bottling for that very reason, i was getting out of control having beer on tap, with bottles i have a visual reminder of my gluttony and helps me control my intake
If you have been steeping grains as part of your extract brewing and bringing the water to the 150 - 160F range for steeping, BIAB is no more complicated than that. That temperature range will be fine for the conversion of starch to sugar and take no more time than steeping does.
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Lon,
try BIAB
get a mash tun or get a false bottom.
Brew some all grain and keg some beer.
Check FB marketplace and Cragslist for used equipment.
Panderson1
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BIAB is pretty simple. A lot of the electric setups are basically BIAB style. Anyways, i would give kegging a try. All my beers started tasting better when I kegged -- prob cause I brew hoppy beers and bottling exposes a lot of O2.
Another vote for all grain here, via BIAB as described above. Low cost: insulate your kettle with old blankets, jackets or sleeping bags and you'll only lose a couple of degrees per hour. Paint bags are okay, but for an extra $25 or $30, a Wilser Bag is a great buy and will fit your kettle better.
A while after switching to all grain, I brewed extract again briefly to assess the difference, which seemed pretty big. Note: even the simplest (BIAB) all-grain brew day will be considerably longer than with extract.
A simple kegging setup can be pretty cheap, but variety is limited by the number of taps. Of course, you can still bottle some batches to expand your choices when it's time to drink what you've made.
A simple kegging setup can be pretty cheap, but variety is limited by the number of taps. Of course, you can still bottle some batches to expand your choices when it's time to drink what you've made.
There are always going to be outliers but I think the moral of the story is that both of those things are worthy of making the beers better if you pay attention to details. Both of them will require some cash outlay and dealing with the inherent learning curve. I've run a homebrew shop for 8 years so I have a pretty good understanding of the experience people have with both of those process changes and both can be a big pain in the butt.
It is possible to brew all grain with very little equipment. A pot, a bag and a thermometer is all you really need. Hell, you can even skip the bag and strain through a colander if you wanted. The biggest pitfall that may make the beer taste like a step backwards is the water but if you pick an amber recipe for the first one, the odds of it being undrinkable is reduced.
Kegging has probably two major soul crushing pitfalls. First is a leak on the gas side that can empty your CO2 overnight. Second is a leak on the liquid side that dumps 5 gallons into the the kegerator/on the floor overnight. I think everyone that has been kegging for a few years has had at least one of these happen, if not both, if not multiple times. Hence the learning curve.
Knowing what they have brought to the table in my own brewing, I wouldn't give up either no matter what. All grain brewing and kegging are a fixture for me.
It is possible to brew all grain with very little equipment. A pot, a bag and a thermometer is all you really need. Hell, you can even skip the bag and strain through a colander if you wanted. The biggest pitfall that may make the beer taste like a step backwards is the water but if you pick an amber recipe for the first one, the odds of it being undrinkable is reduced.
Kegging has probably two major soul crushing pitfalls. First is a leak on the gas side that can empty your CO2 overnight. Second is a leak on the liquid side that dumps 5 gallons into the the kegerator/on the floor overnight. I think everyone that has been kegging for a few years has had at least one of these happen, if not both, if not multiple times. Hence the learning curve.
Knowing what they have brought to the table in my own brewing, I wouldn't give up either no matter what. All grain brewing and kegging are a fixture for me.
That's why I said most. I'm not dissing on picnic taps. For me, it's a no brainer between them and bottling. I used them for a little bit until I got my taps.
I second Wilser Bags. He'll custom make one to your kettle dimensions. I went with BIAB also, but back to extract during the heat of the summer. I wanted to brew indoors. My gas range in the house can hardly boil 2 gallons, so it's partial boils for me. You'll need a grain mill, a bigger kettle and a BIAB. 10 gallon kettle minimum, 15 for bigger beers. I had a keg set up with picnic taps, but that freezer died on me. Now I'm looking for another one. I'll likely get a Keezer built first. Then save my pennies for a Clawhammer Supply system.
One does not necessarily need a kettle 2-3x their batch size. I regularly fill my fermenter with 4 gallons of wort up to ~1.065. I use a 5 gallon kettle. Single dunk sparge, gentle boil, filter through a 200 micron paint strainer. Except for a Carona mill and a Wilserbag, I use the exact same equipment for my extract batches as I do for BIAB.
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You brew an all-grain 1.065 OG with 4 gallons to the fermenter in a 5-gallon pot? No extract at all? If so, you da man.
I'm da man.
It’s not difficult or terribly expensive to go AG; I’m cheap, too. How cheap? Well my brew day starts with a pot of water on top of a wood stove out at the shop where I brew. One neighbor actually asked me if I were a moonshiner! 
I built a decent brewing stand out of bed rails salvaged from the recycle center. (Put a couple of old lawnmower wheels on it to move it around.) AG is a little more involved, but I don’t regard it as a job, but therapy! When I am brewing, I ain’t thinking about Ukraine or Brandon. Also, I bulk buy my grain and have my favorite recipe down around $15. Initially, my cost was just for the 10 gallon water cooler, a homemade bazooka screen, and a valve. I have done a extract since, and was disappointed.
I moved on to kegging. I was really tired of the bottle thing. I was tired of cleaning them, storing them, recleaning, cleaning up broken bottles, filling, capping, moving here & there, etc. Kegging is worth every penny of it to me.
Look for used equipment; there’s plenty out there to be had at great prices. Once mamma bear tells papa bear to get that old junk out of the corner of the basement, or garage, there’s going to be a sale!
Good luck!
I built a decent brewing stand out of bed rails salvaged from the recycle center. (Put a couple of old lawnmower wheels on it to move it around.) AG is a little more involved, but I don’t regard it as a job, but therapy! When I am brewing, I ain’t thinking about Ukraine or Brandon. Also, I bulk buy my grain and have my favorite recipe down around $15. Initially, my cost was just for the 10 gallon water cooler, a homemade bazooka screen, and a valve. I have done a extract since, and was disappointed. I moved on to kegging. I was really tired of the bottle thing. I was tired of cleaning them, storing them, recleaning, cleaning up broken bottles, filling, capping, moving here & there, etc. Kegging is worth every penny of it to me.
Look for used equipment; there’s plenty out there to be had at great prices. Once mamma bear tells papa bear to get that old junk out of the corner of the basement, or garage, there’s going to be a sale!
Good luck!
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I don’t necessarily agree that all grain or biab is a “step up”. If you’re making beer you are happy with using extract then there is nothing wrong with that.
The upside of all grain is you do have more control over your final product. When you start with extract you are using concentrated sugars that somebody else extracted from whatever grain bill they used. When you start with all grain you have total control. Pound for pound, grain is cheaper than extract.
The downsides of all grain are first a longer brew day. Add at least 2.5 hours to your current extract brew day when you go to all grain. You have to measure and grind grain, heat mash water, mash usually for an hour, rinse your grain (sparge), runoff your wort, then clean out your mash tun and dispose of the grain. Second, you need more equipment. You need a grain mill to grind grain. You need a mash tun with the false bottom to mash and drain your grain, or a good bag and a large enough pot to do biab. You need a hydrometer to check your gravity pre-boil and post boil. Some other stuff. There is also a learning curve to all grain.
You stated you didn’t want it to turn into a job. All grain will definitely extend your brew day and give you more to do than extract.
It depends on what you want to do. If you are happy with the beer you are making with extract there is no reason to switch “just because”. If you are not happy with the beer you are making with extract and feel your beers are lacking then maybe you want to try grain.
There’s much to be said for kegging. I keg and I still bottle some, but not as much. I also feel my kegged beers are for the most part better than my bottled beers. I could be biased. More to go wrong with bottling.
The upside of all grain is you do have more control over your final product. When you start with extract you are using concentrated sugars that somebody else extracted from whatever grain bill they used. When you start with all grain you have total control. Pound for pound, grain is cheaper than extract.
The downsides of all grain are first a longer brew day. Add at least 2.5 hours to your current extract brew day when you go to all grain. You have to measure and grind grain, heat mash water, mash usually for an hour, rinse your grain (sparge), runoff your wort, then clean out your mash tun and dispose of the grain. Second, you need more equipment. You need a grain mill to grind grain. You need a mash tun with the false bottom to mash and drain your grain, or a good bag and a large enough pot to do biab. You need a hydrometer to check your gravity pre-boil and post boil. Some other stuff. There is also a learning curve to all grain.
You stated you didn’t want it to turn into a job. All grain will definitely extend your brew day and give you more to do than extract.
It depends on what you want to do. If you are happy with the beer you are making with extract there is no reason to switch “just because”. If you are not happy with the beer you are making with extract and feel your beers are lacking then maybe you want to try grain.
There’s much to be said for kegging. I keg and I still bottle some, but not as much. I also feel my kegged beers are for the most part better than my bottled beers. I could be biased. More to go wrong with bottling.
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LJvermonster
Well-Known Member
You don't want this to be a job but are okay with bottling?? That's an oxymoron right there!! Out of either of those two options, first start with kegging! Bottling is the worst chore ever. Period. It's harder than raising children. Yes, there is an investment, so your cheap @$$ will struggle there
BUT, it's so worth it! And when you pour your first draught from your homemade kegerator, there's just such a fulfillment you get! Cheers!
I pretty much agree with all you’ve said here. But with respect to bottling vs. kegging, you have nailed it! I really like that when I close my fermenter, my beer won’t see air again until I fill my mug!
I agree its best to package beer just once to reduce oxygen, contamination issues etc but if someone is like me and cant have beer on tap due to personal reasons, bottling from keg with beergun air is not a big issue, the conventional bottling bucket is a different story but most people have self control and dont need to do what my dumb ass does if you set me loose im the real life landfill from beerfest and its not something im proud of
JoeSpartaNJ
Well-Known Member
I kegged first, then went all grain, albeit not far apart.
I figured if I bought a kegerator, and gave up brewing, I could still have taps of whatever beer I wanted....Win Win.
I started all grain brewing later that year. The most daunting thing was getting the process and timing down, leave water chemistry and other stuff later.
I like that now I can brew an all grain beer in under 5 hours (including clean up) and keg a beer and be cleaned up in 30 minutes.
Burst carb and be drinking the following evening (if I had to.)
I figured if I bought a kegerator, and gave up brewing, I could still have taps of whatever beer I wanted....Win Win.
I started all grain brewing later that year. The most daunting thing was getting the process and timing down, leave water chemistry and other stuff later.
I like that now I can brew an all grain beer in under 5 hours (including clean up) and keg a beer and be cleaned up in 30 minutes.
Burst carb and be drinking the following evening (if I had to.)
BrewnWKopperKat
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Water chemistry can be daunting. Water adjustments to make better beer doesn't have to be. Check out Brewing Water Chemistry Primer (link) and Water Chemistry - How to Build Your Water (link)
Amen to that
Hey, thanks for this! I have been doing all grain for awhile with decent results. However, beginning to suspect my water chemistry may be a little off. Mostly, I will get an astringency now & then, or some other minor after taste. Nothing to make me pour it out, or abandon brewing, but I think it could be a little better.
Looking forward to diving in on these links; thanks again!
BrewnWKopperKat
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Hopefully the links will help. They offer a good starting point for brewers with RO/distilled (and perhaps very low mineral) water.
If
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I was in your exact shoes about 1.5 years ago, switched from extract to MIAB while continuing to bottle, and have no intention of changing because:
- MIAB is a cheap, simple way to do all-grain. And as others have mentioned, AG gives you much more flexibility in what you brew compared to extract.
- With MIAB in a 10 gallon cooler and batch sparging, I can do 3-pot full or partial boils on my kitchen stove for batches up to 5.5 gallons.
- I enjoy bottling because it's simple and relaxing, and I have neither the space nor inclination to deal with kegging.
- With bottling, I can (and do) have 10+ styles of beer available at any given time. I like the variety and rarely drink the same style two days or even two bottles in a row. Without massive space and massive expense, I could not do this with kegging.
ITV
Well-Known Member
I ended up doing both around the same time and would do it again if I had to do it over.
Regarding your "cheap SOB" comment, I look at my brewing hobby as a "life is too short" attitude.
If I was in your shoes I would look at what your ideal brew system would consist of and work toward that goal.
ITV
Well-Known Member
I would have never thought that way in my younger days.
