All grain canned wort, so far so good!

[501irishred]

Made up a small batch, and canned it a while back. Finally got around to using some to step up a 1056, and WOW, I’m in love! Compared to my typical DME starters, this was a breeze! Since I did a partial boil and canned under 15psi, I felt good about using it straight from the jar after a quick dunk in starsan (plus one). Krausen hit peak in half the expected time (plus two). When finished and taken off the stir plate, the yeast started dropping within minutes! I’ve never seen such clear wort/beer and compact yeast after less than an hour in the fridge (plus three).

I’m curious if this was a perfect storm of sorts that may never happen again, or if this is going to be the norm. Anyone else using starter wort, other than DME, have similar results? If so, why doesn’t this seem to be a staple for more people? It seems I’ve read about people doing this, but it certainly didn’t “jump to the top” on a search. most references to canning wort were referring to canning bulk batches made with DME. The only downside (more of an observation really) is a second hot break seemed to have occurred while canning. I assume bringing the temp up to around 250 had to account for that. Ditching a couple TBS in the bottom of the quart solved any problem there, so still no harm no foul.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]If so, why doesn’t this seem to be a staple for more people?[...]

Canning wort - safely - takes equipment most folks don't have or even know how to use (pressure cookers) and significantly more effort than simply slicing open a bag of dme.

I think it's a fine idea for those equipped with the necessities - and time, but I doubt the yeast care, and tbh I can use the time elsewhere...

Cheers!

 

[AzOr]

I like the idea of just popping open a jar w/o boiling and cooling.

Seems convenient to me.

 

[501irishred]

I think it's a fine idea for those equipped with the necessities - and time, but I doubt the yeast care, and tbh I can use the time elsewhere...

Cheers!

Lol, yeah I gotcha. To bad there’s not many people on this forum willing to make something themselves at excessive time and expense since they can just open a pre made bag, bottle, or can.

 

[day_trippr]

hahaha! Point noted, but there's mainstream methodology that gets the job done, and then there's the stuff that can be fun and personally rewarding...

Cheers! (and Vaya con Dios )

 

[ba-brewer]

I slant yeast so I can wort to have sterile wort for the first few step. I have done all grain batches and also DME batches, all grain is cheaper but DME is easier and faster. The amount of break is about the same for both approaches and all grain makes a lighter wort. I don't think I notice much difference in clarity of starter beer at the end of a crash with can starter vs starters made fresh with DME.

It takes a few hours of watching a jiggling pot to can a batch but it sure is nice later to grab a jar and make a starter.

 

[hottpeper13]

I use to can wort but switched to letting my trub settle in a one gallon pitcher in the lagering chamber overnite, then in an old LME jug and in the freezer. I know that opening that jar and pitching the pouch is awesome,but I hate tossing stuff down the drain if I don't have to. Still have 2 qts on the shelf that are around 2 years old. It's like making bread,you have to think about it a day ahead of when you want it. Unless it's pizza dough ,then 3 days ahead.

 

[501irishred]

I use to can wort but switched to letting my trub settle in a one gallon pitcher in the lagering chamber overnite, then in an old LME jug and in the freezer. I know that opening that jar and pitching the pouch is awesome,but I hate tossing stuff down the drain if I don't have to. Still have 2 qts on the shelf that are around 2 years old. It's like making bread,you have to think about it a day ahead of when you want it. Unless it's pizza dough ,then 3 days ahead.

I’m not sure I’m following your new process. Are you still make all grain starters, but freezing them instead of pressure canning? Also are you referring to throwing away the hot break solids as the waste?

 

[AzOr]

This got me thinking (not a good thing).
Next time I brew I’ll throw in a couple extra lbs of grain and shoot for 7.5 gallons of wort. Usually I shoot for 6.5.
Then I’ll freeze that extra gallon of wort and save it for when my wife cans something else like jam or whatever.
It’s a win win. She’ll do the extra work and I’ll have starter worts ready at a moments notice!

 

[mongoose33]

The one time I tried to pressure can my own starter wort the result was this:

If you don't pressure-can you run the risk of botulinum toxin. Pressure-canning at 240 degrees kills the spores but less than that can allow them to develop and thrive in an anaerobic environment.

The only other way to can food that isn't pressure-canned is if you're doing highly-acidic foods.

Yeah, you can read about people who didn't pressure-can and they survived, but remember this: we're not reading posts from the ones who died.

 

[ba-brewer]

@mongoose33, swirl the jars once cooled and the break will come off the sides of the jars and fall to the bottom.

I seen that for food pressure canning that people were recommending longer times for larger jars, so I do my quarts for 30min at 15psi and my smaller jars for 20min at 15psi. Those time are in addition to the 10min steam venting.

 

[501irishred]

The one time I tried to pressure can my own starter wort the result was this:

If you don't pressure-can you run the risk of botulinum toxin. Pressure-canning at 240 degrees kills the spores but less than that can allow them to develop and thrive in an anaerobic environment.

The only other way to can food that isn't pressure-canned is if you're doing highly-acidic foods.

Yeah, you can read about people who didn't pressure-can and they survived, but remember this: we're not reading posts from the ones who died.

Yep, ph of 4.0 or less is the rule of thumb when you can get by with a hot water bath. Any higher needs to be canned under pressure to get that temp up.
Mine looked pretty gnarly (perhaps not to the extent of the ones you have pictured), but mine all settled within a day or so. I was able to use all but the bottom with little to no solids. Was this this same with your?

 

[hottpeper13]

Irishred, the starters are all grain, just made out of the trub from making a 6 gal batch and racking 5 clear gal into the fermenter. It gives me enough for a starter for the next brew.

 

[Nate R]

This is the joy of using Propper Starter or Fast Pitch.
Canned perfect clear wort. 1.080. You add distilled water, it is 1.040 and ready to go. Store in the closet, does not need refridgeration.
Super duper fast, easy, and safe.
The only downside? Cost!!
These cans are about $3-$5 each. ($3.20 each if you buy a case from propperstarter.com ).
So... if we all start buying them, maybe we can get more made and the price lowered!!!

 

[501irishred]

I use to can wort but switched to letting my trub settle in a one gallon pitcher in the lagering chamber overnite, then in an old LME jug and in the freezer. I know that opening that jar and pitching the pouch is awesome,but I hate tossing stuff down the drain if I don't have to. Still have 2 qts on the shelf that are around 2 years old. It's like making bread,you have to think about it a day ahead of when you want it. Unless it's pizza dough ,then 3 days ahead.

I get it now, and yeah that makes a ton of sense. Why not utilize the leftovers if you can!

This got me thinking (not a good thing).
Next time I brew I’ll throw in a couple extra lbs of grain and shoot for 7.5 gallons of wort. Usually I shoot for 6.5.
Then I’ll freeze that extra gallon of wort and save it for when my wife cans something else like jam or whatever.
It’s a win win. She’ll do the extra work and I’ll have starter worts ready at a moments notice!

This sounds perfect!

now that’s taking it to the next level! Next on my agenda: convince my wife that she wants to do things like “make jam or whatever”. Unless she starts buying the gallon size of Welches jelly at Sams club and re canning them in smaller jars, I think this plan has already failed me.

 

[Bassman2003]

I just do a mash and drain the wort straight into mason jars. I do enough for 14 jars (two rounds through the pressure cooker) at ~1.070. When it comes time to make a starter I pour the mason jar through a strainer with a coffee filter over it. Perfectly clear wort. Then it gets mixed with a bottle of water, oxygenated and the yeast is pitched.

I make the wort probably once a year and it only costs a small amount for grain and bottled water. To me it is worth it to always have plenty of active yeast to pitch.

 

[Zemillard90]

This is the joy of using Propper Starter or Fast Pitch.
Canned perfect clear wort. 1.080. You add distilled water, it is 1.040 and ready to go. Store in the closet, does not need refridgeration.
Super duper fast, easy, and safe.
The only downside? Cost!!
These cans are about $3-$5 each. ($3.20 each if you buy a case from propperstarter.com ).
So... if we all start buying them, maybe we can get more made and the price lowered!!!

Definitely a fan of these. I do however wait until they are on sale, otherwise DME.

 

[RocketBrewer]

I've been canning starter wort for several years now and love it. It used to take me a couple hours every time I made a starter, boiling DME and cooling to pitching temp. Now everything gets a dip in starsan and I'm good to go. I also use all grain (It's a great way to use up older grain), it's way cheaper than DME but does take a little longer. You don't even need to do a pre-boil (it doesn't make much difference), I do a BIAB mash and fill jars. I make up about 5 gallons at a time and that makes 14 quarts and 14 pints, that's usually enough to last me 6 to 8 months. I can squeeze 7 quarts and 7 pints (Must be wide mouth jars as the others are too tall) in my canner stacked in two layers, so that's 2 runs with the canner. It takes most of the day because of the time it takes to heat and cool the canner, but I have lots of time to do other things during the day. In the long run, canning saves me a ton of time and I can throw together a starter in minutes instead of hours. I use a Presto 23 Qt Pressure Canner (Part # 01781), it was recommended in the thread that I learned from. I bring to temp slowly and do 20 minutes at 15 PSI, but you MUST let it cool naturally and depressurize before unloading it

 

[day_trippr]

canning saves me a ton of time and I can throw together a starter in minutes instead of hours.

I don't get it. "Hours"?
Unless you're literally not boiling the canned wort and then cooling same prior to pitching, all you're saving is the time to weigh DME...and you spent that during that entire day of canning wort for starters.

Sorry. Does not compute...

Cheers!

 

[501irishred]

The time is front loaded to the the day you make and can the wort. On starter buildup day, after sanitizing everything, simply dump yeast and wort- done.
Certainly not a time saver overall, but I for one am typically making starters during the middle of the week when things are hectic, getting ready for a brew day on the weekend. Spending time on the weekend on a project is sometimes more affordable.

 

[Bassman2003]

I see it as less of a bother in my life throughout the year. With canned wort I can make the starter whenever I can fit it in because it only takes a short amount of time and effort. Doing a mash and running the pressure cooker is pretty much background activity. You can be doing something else along the way. So it is horse trading of time.

Plus it is way easy to step up the starter but pouring in another mason jar & bottled water for lagers

 

[Dave Sarber]

I also make canned starters in quarts and pints, but have always used DME. Is there much difference between DME and all grain?
I could see an advantage to using trub, or when your calculations are a little wonky and you end up with more wort than planned.
As mentioned above, for me canning is a background activity. You can get lots of other things accomplished while waiting for the cool down.
I also like the suggestion of filtering the canned wort with a coffee filter.

 

[FswBG]

I don't get it. "Hours"?
Unless you're literally not boiling the canned wort and then cooling same prior to pitching, all you're saving is the time to weigh DME...and you spent that during that entire day of canning wort for starters.

Sorry. Does not compute...

Cheers!

Wait maybe I'm missing it. I would think there's a huge time savings from canning.
I can by weighing out 4 oz DME to 8 oz water and load the wife's instant pot to the brim with jars.
Add some water to the pot, set and forget overnight, and viola canned wort. I don't have to wait for a boil, time to chill, clean my kettle, pumps, hoses, etc.

I don't exclusively use cans and will throw the flask on the stovetop in a pinch, but there's a significant time saving in my process at least.

 

[Dave Sarber]

Wait maybe I'm missing it. I would think there's a huge time savings from canning.
I can by weighing out 4 oz DME to 8 oz water and load the wife's instant pot to the brim with jars.
Add some water to the pot, set and forget overnight, and viola canned wort. I don't have to wait for a boil, time to chill, clean my kettle, pumps, hoses, etc.

I don't exclusively use cans and will throw the flask on the stovetop in a pinch, but there's a significant time saving in my process at least.

Well. Pressure canning gives you sterile wort. Simple boiling does not.

 

[FswBG]

Well. Pressure canning gives you sterile wort. Simple boiling does not.

Maybe that's what I missed. What disadvantage is there to having sterilized wort over boiled? I add a yeast nutrient and oxygenate right before pitching the starter.

 

[Bassman2003]

The danger is wort is a low acid food, so the canning guidelines say to bring it up to 240f for safety reasons.

 

[Dave Sarber]

Maybe that's what I missed. What disadvantage is there to having sterilized wort over boiled? I add a yeast nutrient and oxygenate right before pitching the starter.

Botulism is an anaerobic bacteria ( no oxygen required) and can withstand boiling temperatures, (212° F), but can not withstand pressure canning temperatures (240°F). If you plan on saving your wort for any length of time (more than a day or two), pressure can it.

 

[mongoose33]

Technically, I believe it's the spores that we're trying to kill at 240 degrees. In low-acid canning at 212 degrees, the spores are not killed. Set the jars aside, they cool down, the spores "hatch" and now you have the anaerobic bacterial producing botulinum toxin, which is deadly.

 

[RocketBrewer]

I don't get it. "Hours"?
Unless you're literally not boiling the canned wort and then cooling same prior to pitching, all you're saving is the time to weigh DME...and you spent that during that entire day of canning wort for starters.

Sorry. Does not compute...

Cheers!

The canned wort is sterile, no need to reboil, just dip everything in Starsan before opening and adding together. Literally takes minutes, so yes, it saves me a ton of time in the long run.

 

[marc1]

Wait maybe I'm missing it. I would think there's a huge time savings from canning.
I can by weighing out 4 oz DME to 8 oz water and load the wife's instant pot to the brim with jars.
Add some water to the pot, set and forget overnight, and viola canned wort. I don't have to wait for a boil, time to chill, clean my kettle, pumps, hoses, etc.

I don't exclusively use cans and will throw the flask on the stovetop in a pinch, but there's a significant time saving in my process at least.

Instant pots are not recommended for pressure canning, which is what you need for wort:

https://instantpot.com/portfolio-item/foodfaqs/#toggle-id-17

 

[501irishred]

Instant pots are not recommended for pressure canning, which is what you need for wort:

https://instantpot.com/portfolio-item/foodfaqs/#toggle-id-17

I know absolutely nothing about instant pots except they repeated crank out mediocre unimaginative meals at my house, but .......... they are saying you can’t use it to can because it regulates pressure, not temperature. That’s what every (at least all of them I know of) pressure canner does. Typically 10, 12, and 15psi......

 

[ba-brewer]

It looks like the MAX unit can do 15psi and says it is safe for pressure canning.

A couple of the other unit I looked at seems to have a high and low pressure setting with the high setting being a range from 10.2 to 11.6psi.

 

[Nate R]

I know absolutely nothing about instant pots except they repeated crank out mediocre unimaginative meals at my house, but .......... they are saying you can’t use it to can because it regulates pressure, not temperature. That’s what every (at least all of them I know of) pressure canner does. Typically 10, 12, and 15psi......

Hey hey hey now...
This is a fine forum to debate the uses and practicalities of canning wort... you all having it out gloves off is fine...

...But let's not slander the fine folks at InstaPot... geniuses who took an everyday, regular cooking tool that had been around for decades (the electeic pressure cooker), added a timer, and branded it and created a cult following amoung soccerr moms and dads across the country!

 

[AzOr]

Hey hey hey now...
This is a fine forum to debate the uses and practicalities of canning wort... you all having it out gloves off is fine...

...But let's not slander the fine folks at InstaPot... geniuses who took an everyday, regular cooking tool that had been around for decades (the electeic pressure cooker), added a timer, and branded it and created a cult following amoung soccerr moms and dads across the country!

Count my wife as falling victim to the cult.
For weeks, all she talked about was finding just the right one. We purchased it and..........crickets.....

She’s made a few dishes but I don’t see all the hype either.

 

[501irishred]

Hey hey hey now...
This is a fine forum to debate the uses and practicalities of canning wort... you all having it out gloves off is fine...

...But let's not slander the fine folks at InstaPot... geniuses who took an everyday, regular cooking tool that had been around for decades (the electeic pressure cooker), added a timer, and branded it and created a cult following amoung soccerr moms and dads across the country!

Lol, let the record show that my wife LOVES hers, and my great grandmother probably loved her analog analog instant pot version.
Also it should be noted that it’s not the only meals round here that I think is meh. Obviously it’s a me problem....

 

[501irishred]

Count my wife as falling victim to the cult.
For weeks, all she talked about was finding just the right one. We purchased it and..........crickets.....

She’s made a few dishes but I don’t see all the hype either.

It could be worse. In fact I’ll trade you a treadmill straight up for your instant pot!

 

[Bassman2003]

I like the way is cooks pork and carrots. Great flavor.

 

[AzOr]

It could be worse. In fact I’ll trade you a treadmill straight up for your instant pot!

Not interested. We already have a 500 lb clothing rack in our basement!

Any interest in a bread maker or a stand up popcorn maker?

 

[marc1]

I know absolutely nothing about instant pots except they repeated crank out mediocre unimaginative meals at my house, but .......... they are saying you can’t use it to can because it regulates pressure, not temperature. That’s what every (at least all of them I know of) pressure canner does. Typically 10, 12, and 15psi......

Yes, but they needed to make sure that everything inside actually gets to temperature and stays there for enough time to sterilize. I don't know enough about how they work to say whether the theory holds up to real world use for all of the models.

Although, it looks like they did validate the temperatures/performance for the MAX and show that as being good for pressure canning.
It can hold four 16oz jars, so you're trading capacity for ease of use.

This review has an update at the bottom that talked about the validation process for pressure canning that they were doing - they had started 3rd party validation for the MAX in 2018, so it looks like they finished.

https://foodinjars.com/blog/canning-in-an-instant-pot-max/

 

[Dave Sarber]

A Presto 23 qt pressure canner is a lot cheaper, and holds more!