All grain brewing cheaper than extract

[TheMan]

 

[Randar]

Well I laugh at pain, so this makes a lot of sense!

 

[Ben_Persitz]

My Simcoe SMaSH APA I'm brewing this weekend is going to cost me about $9-$10 for 3 gallon batch. It would cost about $13-$14 for a 5 gallon batch.

If I were to do extract it'd be around $22-$26 for that same 3 gallon batch.

 

[chemist308]

Wow, who dug up the 2 year old thread and why?

Oh well. Yes AG is cheaper once you start hitting your efficiency, and get pay yourself back on the added equipment.

At my LHBS, they make up extract kits to include LME, any specialty grains, hops and yeast. They range from just under $40 to about $53. I like stouts--they're on the higher in price. DME substitute increases price a little. So how many batches until I pay back the 9 gallon pot, the burner, silicone tubing, and the 40qt cooler/mlt? Oh and I also bought a barley crusher for about the price of 2 or 3 extract kits, and buy marris otter in bulk, which is really only about 6 to 7 batches per 55#...

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

........................................ What does all the arguing about hops and yeast washing have to do with anything????? The question was whether all grain is cheaper than extract. Hop and yeast use are identical whether you are doing extract are all grain. The only relavent comparisons here are Grain prices vs. Malt Extract and equipment costs, and time if you choose to go there or include that (I wouldn't)................................

The good answer is that it depends on a number of variables and how you look at it.

Looking strictly at it from an ingredients standpoint..... all-grain IS cheaper .... FACT

Looking strictly at equipment needed ..... Extract IS cheaper, FACT (you need a few extra pieces of equipment no matter how cheap you can make them) ..... (yes there's BIAB ..... but whatever).

Now depending on how long you have been brewing you may make up your equipment cost in ingredients saving ..... case by case (variable)

All-grain takes a little longer ..... How much depends on your process. Up to 2 hours and only as much as 30 minutes for some. Depending on how much you value your time and how much you enjoy the hobby this could make all-grain "cheaper" or "more expensive" depending on how you look at it if your factor time in, HA.

 

[DeathBrewer]

While the argument is silly, growing your own hops can be cheap. Set it up to water itself or put water on once a day isn't a huge "chore". throwing some fertilizer on it twice a year isn't a big deal, either. The only time-consuming part is harvesting, and that takes an evening with a couple of friends for POUNDS of hops, if you plant enough.

You will get a much better yield if they are put directly in the ground. The roots will grow many feet deep and sustain a very large plant.

 

[stevedasleeve]

My dry stout cost $15 for 5 gallons, my fanfockingtastic IPA $25, my Imperial light brown hop bomb ale $30. My efficiency is 65-68% which is on the low side.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

I did the math and it is waaaaaaay cheaper to brew extract then AG.
In my LHBS, 2-row is $1.30/lb., LME is $2.50/lb.
9 lbs 2-row will cost you $11.70.
6 lbs LME (same as 9 lbs 2-row) cost you $15.
Propane cost me about $7/batch, so extract is already cheaper then AG. When you add hundreds or thousands of $ for AG equipment, the choice becomes a no-brainer.

I sill like to brew AG, but let's be real - AG is MUCH more expensive then Extract.

 

[elproducto]

I did the math and it is waaaaaaay cheaper to brew extract then AG.
In my LHBS, 2-row is $1.30/lb., LME is $2.50/lb.
9 lbs 2-row will cost you $11.70.
6 lbs LME (same as 9 lbs 2-row) cost you $15.
Propane cost me about $7/batch, so extract is already cheaper then AG. When you add hundreds or thousands of $ for AG equipment, the choice becomes a no-brainer.

I sill like to brew AG, but let's be real - AG is MUCH more expensive then Extract.

7$ worth of propane? Are you doing a 3 hour boil?

 

[Scooby_Brew]

oh yeah. $20 for propane exchange, I get 3 AG batches on one tank.

 

[elproducto]

Also, the only other equipment I got when going from Extract - AG was a MLT that I built myself for $50.
My extract batches were costing me 25-30 dollars a batch.
Once I went AG, and got bulk grains/hops and reused yeast, I'm at $12 for 5 gallons of a hoppy IPA.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

Here is a list of the most basic AG equipment:
30 qt turkey fryier: $80
propane tank: $20
most basic cooler converted to MLT: ~ $60
25' AC built: ~ $60

That's already over $200, and I bet you there is a bunch of little stuff I can't even think about right now. And we are talking the most basic brewing setup. If you want to see thousands of $ spent on this stuff just check out the photo section of this forum (I myself have dropped a pretty penny on this stuff over the years).

As I said before, if you use a basic generic brand LME instead of DME or the expensive LME (my LHBS sells cheap LME by the #) it's cheaper to go Extract before you even start adding all this equipment cost.

 

[elproducto]

As long as you are happy with the beer you are making.
My quality of my AG beers are light years above any of the extract stuff I made.
I have so much more control over my beers now.


Like I said, I had the turkey fryer and everything for extract, so it wasn't a huge jump. The jump in quality however was.

 

[Mysticmead]

Here is a list of the most basic AG equipment:
30 qt turkey fryier: $80
propane tank: $20
most basic cooler converted to MLT: ~ $60
25' AC built: ~ $60

That's already over $200, and I bet you there is a bunch of little stuff I can't even think about right now. And we are talking the most basic brewing setup, you whant to see thousands of $ spent on this stuff just check out the photo secyion of this forum (I myself have droped a pretty penny on this stuff over the years).

As I said before, if you use a basic generic brand LME instead of DME or the expensive LME (my LHBS sells cheap LME by the #) it's cheaper to go Extract before you even start adding all this equipment cost.

Or... 30qt Turkey Fryer $45 (but I already had it for extract brewing)
$7 for material to make 2 grain bags (no MLT needed if you BIAB)
$0 for no-chill brewing
so that was an increase of $7 for me to switch to AG..

the point is, it can cost a small fortune, or it can cost very little, the equipment costs are not an every batch cost. the ingredients be it grain or extract is where the cost savings is.

 

[Randar]

Here is a list of the most basic AG equipment:
30 qt turkey fryier: $80
propane tank: $20
most basic cooler converted to MLT: ~ $60
25' AC built: ~ $60

That's already over $200, and I bet you there is a bunch of little stuff I can't even think about right now. And we are talking the most basic brewing setup. If you want to see thousands of $ spent on this stuff just check out the photo section of this forum (I myself have dropped a pretty penny on this stuff over the years).

As I said before, if you use a basic generic brand LME instead of DME or the expensive LME (my LHBS sells cheap LME by the #) it's cheaper to go Extract before you even start adding all this equipment cost.

Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.
2) If you are boiling on your stove now, there is no reason you can't do the same and skip the turkey fryer and propane tank. (you can do single kettle AG without complication)

So, the only cost difference in setup is your MT and fittings. Now, go back to your ridiculous price assumptions of $1.30/pound and substitute base grain per pound prices with $0.80/pound by using domestic malt by the sack.

Now, equipment costs are a valid argument once you start getting into buying larger volume capable equipment, mills, etc, but those are not necessary to brew All Grain in equivalent batch sizes to whatever your current extract batch sizes are.

 

[elproducto]

Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.
2) If you are boiling on your stove now, there is no reason you can't do the same and skip the turkey fryer and propane tank. (you can do single kettle AG without complication)

So, the only cost difference in setup is your MT and fittings. Now, go back to your ridiculous price assumptions of $1.30/pound and substitute base grain per pound prices with $0.80/pound by using domestic malt by the sack.

Now, equipment costs are a valid argument once you start getting into buying larger volume capable equipment, mills, etc, but those are not necessary to brew All Grain in equivalent batch sizes to whatever your current extract batch sizes are.

 

[Randar]

While the argument is silly, growing your own hops can be cheap. Set it up to water itself or put water on once a day isn't a huge "chore". throwing some fertilizer on it twice a year isn't a big deal, either. The only time-consuming part is harvesting, and that takes an evening with a couple of friends for POUNDS of hops, if you plant enough.

You will get a much better yield if they are put directly in the ground. The roots will grow many feet deep and sustain a very large plant.

So your irrigation system is free, timers are free, water is free, sisal or other twine is free, rhizomes are free, cable/pulley/hangers are free, posts are free, your drying racks/system is free, and your fertilizer is free.

I have that all correct then? Did I miss anything else? Domestic pellet hops are around 75-85 cents per ounce. You think you spend less than $10 per pound including time and opportunity cost to do it?

That would be quite the feat. As I previously noted, though, if you enjoy it and you do it as a hobby and discount all of your time and opportunity cost, then you might be about "even" to produce hops you don't even know what the alpha acid content is and get minimal harvest until at least year 3.

Unless you are going to itemize the costs for your set-up and prove it, let's just say I have my doubts (because I have done the analysis for my setup which is not terrible expensive on its own).

 

[IffyG]

Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.
2) If you are boiling on your stove now, there is no reason you can't do the same and skip the turkey fryer and propane tank. (you can do single kettle AG without complication)

Not quite fuzzy math. I don't need an immersion chiller with my partial boil extract batches (so I'd need to buy or make something to jump to AG) and my electric stove can barely handle boiling 3 gallons of wort. There is ZERO chance I could jump to all grain without a turkey fryer and propane tank to go with it.

 

[Randar]

Not quite fuzzy math. I don't need an immersion chiller with my partial boil extract batches (so I'd need to buy or make something to jump to AG) and my electric stove can barely handle boiling 3 gallons of wort. There is ZERO chance I could jump to all grain without a turkey fryer and propane tank to go with it.

And why couldn't you do partial boil or split boil all grain again? If you're going to compare apples to apples, stop throwing in oranges. Even then, if you throw in a cheap turkey fryer and IC and propane tanks you will be able to recover those equipment costs in just a handful of batches.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.

BTW, I just helped a buddy of mine w/ his first brew (Extract), and the best part of it was that instead of chilling the wort we simply dumped it on ~6 lbs of ice from the fridge and we got pitching temps in about 15 sec!!! The whole "brewday" took under 2 hours and that included cleaning and getting waisted

 

[Randar]

BTW, I just helped a buddy of mine w/ his first brew (Extract), and the best part of it was that instead of chilling the wort we simply dumped it on ~6 lbs of ice from the fridge and we got pitching temps in about 15 sec!!! The whole "brewday" took under 2 hours and that included cleaning and getting waisted

Oh sweet baby jeeeebus. I can see I am wasting my time here.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

Oh sweet baby jeeeebus. I can see I am wasting my time here.

that would be the best thing you said so far today.

I don't think there is a better or worst way to brew, RDWHAHB. But at least at my LHBS, and only when you use their LME, Extract brew is going to be cheaper then AG per batch (that's the subject of this thread). Now when you add all the equipment costs and time on top of it, there is NO COMPARISING: Extract is way cheaper then AG.
But then again, brewing is a hobby, and I enjoy it for past 11 years, and all the money I dumped into it over the years (AG) where money well spent

 

[Randar]

Your math is still invalid, but as long as it makes you happy, 3+3 = 7.

 

[elproducto]

The OP was asking about ingredients, not equipment.
I've never heard of anyplace where extracts are cheaper than grains.

Congrats if you have such a LHBS.

My LHBS charges $4.99 for a pound of Briess Pale DME. I pay .65 cents/pound for bulk 2 row.

 

[TheMan]

Scooby Brew...Seriously??? You stated this two pages ago:

I did the math and it is waaaaaaay cheaper to brew extract then AG.
In my LHBS, 2-row is $1.30/lb., LME is $2.50/lb.
9 lbs 2-row will cost you $11.70.
6 lbs LME (same as 9 lbs 2-row) cost you $15.

By your math and your prices at YOUR LHBS, that is $3.30 cheaper to do AG (the subject of this thread).

Yet you are saying extract is cheaper??? You need to get your head checked dude...

 

[Scooby_Brew]

I can't brew AG w/out propane... I brew extract in the kitchen on a stove. I guess it depends if you want to call propane an ingredient, but if I can't brew a batch without it, that's an ingredient to me. So you need to add $7 to the cost of AG... So FOR ME Extract is cheaper then AG

 

[TheMan]

Why can't you brew AG on the same stove you use for your extract? I don't understand this. In winter I brew indoors on my stove with the same exact equipment I used when doing extract.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

Why can't you brew AG on the same stove you use for your extract?.

Only if I wanted my SWMBO to kill me.

 

[Randar]

So she lets you brew with Sticky LME in the kitchen but not benign grains?

Bass Ackwards if ya ask me (you didn't)!

Back to the topic at hand. If you want your taxes done by a real accountant, don't go to H&R Block. If you want math done on the cost of all grain versus extract, don't ask Scooby Brew!

 

[coypoo]

There is no way one batch of brew uses $7 worth or propane. I just filled my tank up and it cost me $17 and I got at least +10 brew sessions out of it.