All grain brewing cheaper than extract
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simple answer....Yes it is.
Check online retailers, and figure you are going to get around 70% usage....so you will need 10 pounds of grain for every 7 pounds of extract...then compair price. It will make you smile.
Check online retailers, and figure you are going to get around 70% usage....so you will need 10 pounds of grain for every 7 pounds of extract...then compair price. It will make you smile.
ingredients, yes.
Ed's Haus Pale Ale:
8# of Pale 2 Row: $13
2# Vienna : $4
1/2# Crystal: $1
Total for the grain: $18.
Extract:
7# DME: $21
2# Vienna: $4
1/2# Crystal : $1
Total for extract: $26
But, for AG, you'll need a bigger brew pot, MLT of some kind (igloo cooler and parts)
So in the long run, AG isn't cheaper at the start. But after a few years it will be cheaper.
Until you build a sculpture.
B
Ed's Haus Pale Ale:
8# of Pale 2 Row: $13
2# Vienna : $4
1/2# Crystal: $1
Total for the grain: $18.
Extract:
7# DME: $21
2# Vienna: $4
1/2# Crystal : $1
Total for extract: $26
But, for AG, you'll need a bigger brew pot, MLT of some kind (igloo cooler and parts)
So in the long run, AG isn't cheaper at the start. But after a few years it will be cheaper.
Until you build a sculpture.
B
chemist308
Well-Known Member
YES. And much better tasting. Consider this. You need two cans of LME or two 3# bags of DME per batch. You already know what that costs.
The average batch of beer uses 9# of 2-row and 1 to 2# of specialty grain. The 2 row can be had for between $55 and $65 for 50 to 55#, and the specialty grain can be had for $1.50 to $2 per pound. So, lets figure you guy a bag of marris otter - $65 for 55#. That's 6 batches at a cost of $11 plus the specialty grain at between $1.50 and $4. So on the grains alone you're paying $12.50 to $15 per 5 gallon batch. Two cans of Muntons LME are just under $30 and you may still have to buy the specialty grain...
So the short answer is you can make it for half the price with twice the good flavor...
The average batch of beer uses 9# of 2-row and 1 to 2# of specialty grain. The 2 row can be had for between $55 and $65 for 50 to 55#, and the specialty grain can be had for $1.50 to $2 per pound. So, lets figure you guy a bag of marris otter - $65 for 55#. That's 6 batches at a cost of $11 plus the specialty grain at between $1.50 and $4. So on the grains alone you're paying $12.50 to $15 per 5 gallon batch. Two cans of Muntons LME are just under $30 and you may still have to buy the specialty grain...
So the short answer is you can make it for half the price with twice the good flavor...
Ingredients only? Yes, AG is much cheaper if you get average to great efficiency.
TwoHeadsBrewing
Well-Known Member
Simple answer: Yes.
Complicated Answer: Depends on your equipment. You can start doing all-grain for under $100 if you buy a turkey fryer, use an old cooler for a mash tun, and use your boil kettle as your HLT (heating the sparge water). However, you have to figure in the savings per batch...then how long it will take you to break even given the new equipment purchase. The more you spend on equipment, the longer it will take to start "saving" money with going all grain. Here's how I started: I already had a turkey fryer kit and a 5 gallon cooler. I modified this cooler to be my Mash Lauter Tun (MLT) with a stainless steel brain and some fittings from Lowe's. I followed this guide here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/
So, I only spent about $30 for my first all grain batch...I was just limited due to the size of my mash tun. So, for a normal 5 gallon "pale ale" recipe from the LHBS with liquid yeast I would spend $32. For the same recipe for all grain it only cost $24 which was a savings of $8 per batch. At that rate it took me 4 batches to break even with my equipment costs. Not bad, but here's the catch...I didn't EVER stop buying new equipment
! I first graduated to a round 10 gallon cooler($50). Then I purchased a keg and modified it to be my boil kettle($60). Then I got ANOTHER keg and turned it into a Hot Liquor Tank($90), and bought a grain mill($160) so I could buy grains in bulk. From what I read and hear from other brewers...this is how the all grain thing goes for most people. With all those purchases it's going to take me all this year to break even...although the more I brew the more I save (right?).
But all of that stuff is not really important to me...it's about the quality of the beer and the love of the hobby/obsession. Going all grain gives you total control over your brew, and if you do it right will yield some fantastic and truly unique home brewed beer. Go all grain for the love of brewing it like the professionals do, the complexity of the process, and the love of learning the traditional method. Oh, and don't forget the love of shiny new toys for your brewing setup!
But to be fair, the last 11 gallon batch I brewed up cost me $24! :rockin:
Complicated Answer: Depends on your equipment. You can start doing all-grain for under $100 if you buy a turkey fryer, use an old cooler for a mash tun, and use your boil kettle as your HLT (heating the sparge water). However, you have to figure in the savings per batch...then how long it will take you to break even given the new equipment purchase. The more you spend on equipment, the longer it will take to start "saving" money with going all grain. Here's how I started: I already had a turkey fryer kit and a 5 gallon cooler. I modified this cooler to be my Mash Lauter Tun (MLT) with a stainless steel brain and some fittings from Lowe's. I followed this guide here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/
So, I only spent about $30 for my first all grain batch...I was just limited due to the size of my mash tun. So, for a normal 5 gallon "pale ale" recipe from the LHBS with liquid yeast I would spend $32. For the same recipe for all grain it only cost $24 which was a savings of $8 per batch. At that rate it took me 4 batches to break even with my equipment costs. Not bad, but here's the catch...I didn't EVER stop buying new equipment
! I first graduated to a round 10 gallon cooler($50). Then I purchased a keg and modified it to be my boil kettle($60). Then I got ANOTHER keg and turned it into a Hot Liquor Tank($90), and bought a grain mill($160) so I could buy grains in bulk. From what I read and hear from other brewers...this is how the all grain thing goes for most people. With all those purchases it's going to take me all this year to break even...although the more I brew the more I save (right?).But all of that stuff is not really important to me...it's about the quality of the beer and the love of the hobby/obsession. Going all grain gives you total control over your brew, and if you do it right will yield some fantastic and truly unique home brewed beer. Go all grain for the love of brewing it like the professionals do, the complexity of the process, and the love of learning the traditional method. Oh, and don't forget the love of shiny new toys for your brewing setup!
But to be fair, the last 11 gallon batch I brewed up cost me $24! :rockin:
Does anybody have a good link descrbibing efficency? I have seen it everywhere and havent really comer across a good brewing definition of it is.
It's in the wiki, in palmer's How to Brew - By John Palmer and in my all grain primer article found in my sig below.
RayInUT
Well-Known Member
Yes it is. The other thing that makes it cheaper is by the time you are ready to do AG you will also be doing other things like washing yeast and saving it in the fridge, etc. Just that alone will save you $8.00 in liquid yeast. Also, the control you have over what you make is MUCH better. Not to bag on extract but it is like making top ramen compared to using the bone from your New Year's ham to make soup from scratch. You can't beat it!
steelerguy
Well-Known Member
Okay, I am going to differ with everyone here and say no.
Most people did qualify their answers and say if just talking about ingredients then yes. I don't talk just in ingredients, I also talk in time and you will spend a significantly larger amount of time doing AG. I would say the time increase is at least as significant as the increase in cost. I guess this is kind of a personal matter also though, as I actually enjoy brewing, although my wife may get a bit irritated when I spend the entire day with grains, water, and wort.
When it comes right down to it, I think it is a wash as far as cost. It costs more to buy the extracts, but you spend more time preparing an AG beer. Plus, making 5-10 gallons of beer really doesn't cost that much anyway. BUT, when it comes down to taste and satisfaction, there is no contest. When you make an AG beer it is yours, when you do an extract it just feels like you are making "boxed cake" beer. At least that is how I feel.
Most people did qualify their answers and say if just talking about ingredients then yes. I don't talk just in ingredients, I also talk in time and you will spend a significantly larger amount of time doing AG. I would say the time increase is at least as significant as the increase in cost. I guess this is kind of a personal matter also though, as I actually enjoy brewing, although my wife may get a bit irritated when I spend the entire day with grains, water, and wort.
When it comes right down to it, I think it is a wash as far as cost. It costs more to buy the extracts, but you spend more time preparing an AG beer. Plus, making 5-10 gallons of beer really doesn't cost that much anyway. BUT, when it comes down to taste and satisfaction, there is no contest. When you make an AG beer it is yours, when you do an extract it just feels like you are making "boxed cake" beer. At least that is how I feel.
BrianTheBrewer
Well-Known Member
I will go with what everyone else has said...yes All Grain is cheaper (in my experience).
It also taste better, a lot better.
It also taste better, a lot better.
BeerPressure
Well-Known Member
It's not about the cost, its about the fun of brewing.
Uhhh that depends... Do you have an addictive personality?
brown_dog_us
Well-Known Member
It depends...
If you buy on the internet it is pretty close. You can buy 7 lbs of LME at Morebeer for $16 or 10 lbs of 2 row for $12.50. That's not a big difference. If you are buying from your LHBS malt extract tends to be significantly more, but the grains are about the same. If you get into a good group buy or find some grains at a great price it can get really lopsided.
If you buy on the internet it is pretty close. You can buy 7 lbs of LME at Morebeer for $16 or 10 lbs of 2 row for $12.50. That's not a big difference. If you are buying from your LHBS malt extract tends to be significantly more, but the grains are about the same. If you get into a good group buy or find some grains at a great price it can get really lopsided.
Yes it is.
If it isn't you are doing something wrong.
Price is only part of the reason for going AG though.
The pleasure of realy making your own beer from base ingredients.
Making you own brewery equipment
Having complete control over the the all the properies of the beer.
I'm sure there are other as well.
If it isn't you are doing something wrong.
Price is only part of the reason for going AG though.
The pleasure of realy making your own beer from base ingredients.
Making you own brewery equipment
Having complete control over the the all the properies of the beer.
I'm sure there are other as well.
I paid $.86/pound for crisp maris otter malt at a LHBS. So, for a beer I made yesterday, I paid $8.60 for the base grains and a few dollars for the specialty grains. So, maybe $10 in malt for my Dead Guy Clone. Same recipe in extract (4 pounds LME, 4 pounds DME) is $27 for the extract and a couple of dollars for the grains, so say $30 for the malt. That's three times more!
But, as others have said, it's not that much about the money. It's about the control you have over the final product, the taste advantage, and the sheer satisifaction of making it well.
But, as others have said, it's not that much about the money. It's about the control you have over the final product, the taste advantage, and the sheer satisifaction of making it well.
flyangler18
Well-Known Member
This is the perpetual argument/discussion that comes up at least weekly without fail.
Price is but one consideration when evaluating the prospect of moving to AG. The less the manufacturer gets involved, the lower the cost of ingredients to you as the brewer. On purely an ingredient level, the cost savings is significant compared to extract or extract + steeping recipe kits. I won't bore you with the cost-analysis for any of my recipes or those that I've brewed previously, but it almost immediately apparent when doing online comparisons. Equipment costs are another matter, but even this can be mitigated with a DIY attitude and a little common sense. Charlie Papazian has a pretty austere system compared to some of us here, and he's still making good beer. There are some here that are equipment junkies, building systems and engineering solutions as much if not more than actually brewing.
To take a more philosophical angle, brewing AG is more satisfying to me because I am more intimately involved in the process of brewing, from the milling of the grain to conducting the mash to sparging, etc. It feels more 'real' to me, if that makes any sense. The process is just as rewarding and enjoyable as drinking the fruits of my labor. I certainly don't malign anyone's decision to brew using different methods- after all, we're all making beer!
Price is but one consideration when evaluating the prospect of moving to AG. The less the manufacturer gets involved, the lower the cost of ingredients to you as the brewer. On purely an ingredient level, the cost savings is significant compared to extract or extract + steeping recipe kits. I won't bore you with the cost-analysis for any of my recipes or those that I've brewed previously, but it almost immediately apparent when doing online comparisons. Equipment costs are another matter, but even this can be mitigated with a DIY attitude and a little common sense. Charlie Papazian has a pretty austere system compared to some of us here, and he's still making good beer. There are some here that are equipment junkies, building systems and engineering solutions as much if not more than actually brewing.
To take a more philosophical angle, brewing AG is more satisfying to me because I am more intimately involved in the process of brewing, from the milling of the grain to conducting the mash to sparging, etc. It feels more 'real' to me, if that makes any sense. The process is just as rewarding and enjoyable as drinking the fruits of my labor. I certainly don't malign anyone's decision to brew using different methods- after all, we're all making beer!
gxm
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I'll have to brew AG for awhile to realize the cost savings in grain vs extract.
However, I love the control and the possibilities of AG. I love being able to pick out exactly what grains I'm using, and change my mash temp to control fermentability. I love being able to use "old school" techniques, like partigyle & decoction mashing. The only reason I'd go back to extract would be for time savings, but I like being able to spend 4-9 hours making a beer on a Saturday.
However, I love the control and the possibilities of AG. I love being able to pick out exactly what grains I'm using, and change my mash temp to control fermentability. I love being able to use "old school" techniques, like partigyle & decoction mashing. The only reason I'd go back to extract would be for time savings, but I like being able to spend 4-9 hours making a beer on a Saturday.
chase
Well-Known Member
Well that depends... It costs enough that I have to pay attention to what I'm spending. Enough that saving $5-10 per batch is a significant savings. And if xxdcmast is asking, then I'm assuming he's in a similar situation.
brrman
Well-Known Member
I have found AG is definitely cheaper.
But I have also now gotten to the point where I brew two AG batches at a time to save on time. Where a single batch takes about 4 hours, I can do 2 batches in 7 hours. Its the set up and clean up that takes time and I don't clean the mash tun or kettle between batches. And I only have to brew half as often.
But I have also now gotten to the point where I brew two AG batches at a time to save on time. Where a single batch takes about 4 hours, I can do 2 batches in 7 hours. Its the set up and clean up that takes time and I don't clean the mash tun or kettle between batches. And I only have to brew half as often.
jds
Well-Known Member
Wow!
My LHBS charges $1.80 for Maris Otter. Is that regular price, or do you get a deal of some kind?
TwoHeadsBrewing
Well-Known Member
yes, and you can get started with little initial cost:
Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics) - Home Brew Forums
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/
Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics) - Home Brew Forums
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/
craigd
Well-Known Member
The answer is yes - especially if SWMBO is asking. 
If you want it to be less expensive it can be significantly so - especially if you brew large batches. If that doesn't concern you greatly then it won't be because you will keeping buying stuff...
As an IT manager I write Return on Investment cases all the time. If I had to write one to buy a mash tun it would be cake. Like all ROIs the real world may not work out exactly like the paper one though so I would be hoping nobody goes back to do an analysis...
If you want it to be less expensive it can be significantly so - especially if you brew large batches. If that doesn't concern you greatly then it won't be because you will keeping buying stuff...As an IT manager I write Return on Investment cases all the time. If I had to write one to buy a mash tun it would be cake. Like all ROIs the real world may not work out exactly like the paper one though so I would be hoping nobody goes back to do an analysis...
kappclark
Well-Known Member
It is less expensive, but you pay for the additional time...
Is the extra time worth it ? Probably ..
I did an extract Red Ale this weekend, and it couldn't have been easier...
I do know the AG will be smoother, and I will probably get back to AG once I can afford bigger equipment. Right now, I am getting back to keeping life simpler ..
Go for it .. and start with EdWort's Haus Ale..
Is the extra time worth it ? Probably ..
I did an extract Red Ale this weekend, and it couldn't have been easier...
I do know the AG will be smoother, and I will probably get back to AG once I can afford bigger equipment. Right now, I am getting back to keeping life simpler ..
Go for it .. and start with EdWort's Haus Ale..
once you get your system down, the time isn't really that different.
i can brew an extract batch in about 3 hours, a PM batch in about 3.5 hours, and an all-grain in about 4 hours, as long as i'm not being lazy. not a huge difference.
i can brew an extract batch in about 3 hours, a PM batch in about 3.5 hours, and an all-grain in about 4 hours, as long as i'm not being lazy. not a huge difference.
I just did my first AG batch and it took 4 hours, including a 75 min. mash and 120 min. boil. I'm one of those process freaks though. I can't help but analyze everything to make it go faster and easier.
11 Gallons of my Cream Ale will cost me about $14.00.
That's about 13 cents a bottle.
As for my time?
And
Oh...and yes...your beer will be better.
That's about 13 cents a bottle.
As for my time?
- It's 68 degrees in my brewshop.
- The SWMBO leaves me alone down there.
- 25" TV with cable.
- Comfortable reclining office chair.
- 5 taps within arms reach.
- Always lots of miscellaneous beer chores that I enjoy.
And
- With all grain you get to play with cool **** like a barley crusher:
Oh...and yes...your beer will be better.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
Ingredients for my HCL partial mash I have on deck, cost $10 less than if I was to do a all extract recipe. If I keep saving these $10 I'll buy a turkey fryer and go to all grain!
Cybershadow
Well-Known Member
why does no one factor in the cost of hops or yeast?
Ace_Club
Well-Known Member
Because hops and yeast are the same whether you are doing all-grain or extract.
AnchorBock
Well-Known Member
Another thing to factor in is the cost of propane. I agree, save money on ingredients, but spend more on equipment and definitely more time. It's more rewarding to me to brew all grain, have my second AG batch in the fermenter now - it's pretty fun brewing in the garage with a buddy or two drinking for 4-6 hours and ending up with some good beer several weeks later.
jds
Well-Known Member
True. However, the budget-conscious brewer can save 50% or more on hops by buying in bulk. The $40 I spent on hops from freshops last fall will keep me brewing throughout the year with my favorite hops varieties. The same amount of hops would have run me around $120 from the LHBS.
Ace_Club
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily agree with this. Between cleaning and Mash/sparge times (which is 2 hrs by itself), AG batches are easily 2 hours longer than Extract batches. Boil and chill times are the same, but nearly everything else is additive.
oceanselv
Well-Known Member
Yes ingredients in an all grain batch can be cheaper. Yes the time it takes to brew an all grain batch is longer than an extract batch. Yes many of us have purchased additional equipment to brew all grain beer. However, the real reason many of us have made the transition from extract to all grain is not the cost, nor is it for an improved taste, it is because of the process. The lower cost of the raw materials for all grain is often offset by the cost of a new larger kettle, a grain mill and various other equipment purchases. Award winning beers have been made from extract and they have also been made from all grain. However, the big advantage of all grain is controlling the process. With an all grain batch we can control the mash temps, length of mash, water chemistry etc. This is simply not something you can do in brewing an extract batch.
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