All grain brewing cheaper than extract

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
However, the real reason many of us have made the transition from extract to all grain is not the cost, nor is it for an improved taste, it is because of the process.

Partially disagree. While award winning brews have been made with extract, I would argue that you have so much less creative control that it does limit you and this impacts on taste if you try to vary styles. Extract quality, color, and flavor can change unannounced.
 
why does no one factor in the cost of hops or yeast?

I'm starting to not include yeast cost in my brewing budget. Simple answer is I'm starting to wash my yeast. So, once I can harvest one yeast cake of a strain, I won't need to purchase that yeast for a good amount of time (and many batches of brew)... I have three 1 quart jars chilling in the fridge from the first harvest. Once it's all settled (already pulled the yeast off the trub yesterday) I might put those into smaller jars. With how many generations you can get from each harvest (gen 1) I think that the three jars (might go to four) will last a long time. Figuring if I take the initial three harvested jars of yeast and only harvest two from each of them, then two from each of those, etc. I'll get about 45 batches out of the harvest. That's a savings of about $360 (at today's prices) in yeast from just one (originally) yeast cake. I have a second brew that I'll be harvesting the cake from, and am thinking of harvesting another when it's ready. I might go for one more strain, to cover all the styles I'm brewing right now. I might need to give some of the washed yeast away to brew buddies.

So, as you can see, yeast becomes almost a $0 item if you harvest/wash it. Start growing your own hops, and there's another place to save on cost. Both can be done for either extract, PM or AG brewing too.

BTW, if you buy from the right source, you can get really good prices on hop pellets. Prices under $1.25/ounce (the LHBS I visit is getting $3/ounce on pellet hops right now). Even less when you buy more (that's for one 4 ounce package, discounts get better the more you buy of a kind)...
 
I'm starting to not include yeast cost in my brewing budget. Simple answer is I'm starting to wash my yeast. So, once I can harvest one yeast cake of a strain, I won't need to purchase that yeast for a good amount of time (and many batches of brew)... I have three 1 quart jars chilling in the fridge from the first harvest. Once it's all settled (already pulled the yeast off the trub yesterday) I might put those into smaller jars. With how many generations you can get from each harvest (gen 1) I think that the three jars (might go to four) will last a long time. Figuring if I take the initial three harvested jars of yeast and only harvest two from each of them, then two from each of those, etc. I'll get about 45 batches out of the harvest. That's a savings of about $360 (at today's prices) in yeast from just one (originally) yeast cake. I have a second brew that I'll be harvesting the cake from, and am thinking of harvesting another when it's ready. I might go for one more strain, to cover all the styles I'm brewing right now. I might need to give some of the washed yeast away to brew buddies.

So, as you can see, yeast becomes almost a $0 item if you harvest/wash it. Start growing your own hops, and there's another place to save on cost. Both can be done for either extract, PM or AG brewing too.

BTW, if you buy from the right source, you can get really good prices on hop pellets. Prices under $1.25/ounce (the LHBS I visit is getting $3/ounce on pellet hops right now). Even less when you buy more (that's for one 4 ounce package, discounts get better the more you buy of a kind)...

Well I store my yeast and grow my own hops and it takes at least a couple of years to recover the start-up cost and that is if you consider your personal time to be "free"...
 
ingredients, yes.
Ed's Haus Pale Ale:
8# of Pale 2 Row: $13
2# Vienna : $4
1/2# Crystal: $1

Total for the grain: $18.

Extract:
7# DME: $21
2# Vienna: $4
1/2# Crystal : $1

Total for extract: $26

But, for AG, you'll need a bigger brew pot, MLT of some kind (igloo cooler and parts)

So in the long run, AG isn't cheaper at the start. But after a few years it will be cheaper.

Until you build a sculpture.

B

haha! I figure once I've saved equal to half of my equipment cost, I upgrade something! Kegerator, larger kettle for full boil partial-mash, and now a basic all-grain setup.
 
Ingredients may be cheaper per batch, but since I went all-grain I got bit by the bug much harder and ended up building a keezer (don't even want to think about how much $$$ I've put into that at this point), Barley Crusher grain mill (well worth the money to enable bulk grain buys, thus saving a little $$$... not to mention it's fun to use), plus the larger brew kettle (~$110), propane burner (~$50), and MLT build (~$50). You can probably find/build things cheaper than I did, but I get excited and jump the gun sometimes.

At the end of the day going all-grain is the best decision I've ever made for my brewing hobby. No doubt you can make incredible extract beers, but all I know is MY all-grain beers have been coming out far better than my extract beers ever did and I have more fun doing it.

Leave the bean counting to the accountants and just brew it.
 
Well I store my yeast and grow my own hops and it takes at least a couple of years to recover the start-up cost and that is if you consider your personal time to be "free"...

Cost to wash yeast is virtually nil... I got several jars from family, plus I've been saving quart jars as I empty them (of food)... Picking up some small mason jars, to add to what I already have, won't be that much.

Initial setup costs for the trellis for hop growing is a flexible item. I'm still thinking about growing one, or two, hops this year. Planters (since I'm renting) are under $30 each. Then the support for the bines should run under $20 more (per plant). If I was planting in the ground, it would just be the cost to make the support setup... Considering how expensive hops are where I am (especially for cones) I could recoup my costs in under two years of brewing (if I do the max I can, which I probably will) with them.
 
I don't necessarily agree with this. Between cleaning and Mash/sparge times (which is 2 hrs by itself), AG batches are easily 2 hours longer than Extract batches. Boil and chill times are the same, but nearly everything else is additive.

I clean while I brew. My mash tun is cleaned while I boil. My boil pot has to be cleaned regardless of the method.

It literally adds only 30-60 minutes to my brew day if I mash. You do not need to mash for an hour. Recirculation helps with faster conversion...you can heat your sparge water just as you start your mash (or have it ready)...there are lots of tricks to a quick brew day.

I actually save time doing all-grain in my basement with my high output burners vs. doing extract on the stovetop. Also, regardless of whether or not you mash, you still want your grains to steep for a time to extract all the color and flavor.

The quickest possible brew day would be to do an all-extract (no steeping grains) batch with a short boil (30 minutes or so) and counter-flow or plate chilling. I'd imagine you could get a batch done in an hour with this method, cleaning and all.
 
I clean while I brew...

It literally adds only 30-60 minutes to my brew day if I mash. You do not need to mash for an hour. Recirculation helps with faster conversion...you can heat your sparge water just as you start your mash (or have it ready)...there are lots of tricks to a quick brew day.
QUOTE]
+1
Since nobody has mentioned it I will. Single Vessel no Sparge Brewing (Brew in a Bag) isn't really more expensive from an equipment point of view. A kettle that is roughly twice the size of your target batch size is the biggest expense. No MLT or HLT. I use a keggle and a march pump with my set up, but I don't have to. Getting to the point with my setup that I'm at now did take an investment of DIY time, experimentation, and wasted dollars. It was better I spent it when I did as I recently took 3 nieces into my home to raise. I had 3 boys already. Six kids can get expensive, and attorney's that deal in family law are expensive also.

I have only one vessel to clean and a bucket I had my grain in that I put my spent grain bag in. So my mash time is the only "extra" time I have invested. I plan to be busy the whole day regardless. I hate rushing around on a brew day, which is another reason I like Single Vessel no Sparge Brewing.
 
I clean while I brew...

It literally adds only 30-60 minutes to my brew day if I mash. You do not need to mash for an hour. Recirculation helps with faster conversion...you can heat your sparge water just as you start your mash (or have it ready)...there are lots of tricks to a quick brew day.
+1
Since nobody has mentioned it I will. Single Vessel no Sparge Brewing (Brew in a Bag) isn't really more expensive from an equipment point of view. A kettle that is roughly twice the size of your target batch size is the biggest expense. No MLT or HLT. I use a keggle and a march pump with my set up, but I don't have to. Getting to the point with my setup that I'm at now did take an investment of DIY time, experimentation, and wasted dollars. It was better I spent it when I did as I recently took 3 nieces into my home to raise. I had 3 boys already. Six kids can get expensive, and attorney's that deal in family law are expensive also.

I have only one vessel to clean and a bucket I had my grain in that I put my spent grain bag in. So my mash time is the only "extra" time I have invested. I plan to be busy the whole day regardless. I hate rushing around on a brew day, which is another reason I like Single Vessel no Sparge Brewing.

+1 BIAB is an easy relaxing way to go all grain
 
Since I've been buying bulk grains and hops, and reusing yeast.. it's gotten REALLY cheap for me going AG.

I can brew 5 gallons of a hoppy IPA for about 12$. Not to mention my beer is out of this world better than any extract brew I made.
 
Did no one else notice this thread was two years old until someone resurrected it three days ago? lol

Anyway, Deathbrewer is entirely correct. The whole "AG takes tons more time" argument is completely false. I can brew an AG recipe in 4 hours easily. Everything but the chiller and boil pot can be cleaned while you boil. So at the end you spend 10 minutes cleaning after all is done.

If you steep for 20-30 minutes that is only half hour shorter than a traditional mash. The rest of the process is nearly the same.

Lastly, if people are going to calculate their time into a hobby as a cost, then it's not a hobby to them. It's a chore. I don't know about you all, but I don't really care how long any of my hobbies take. I do them because I enjoy them.
 
I just look at it as "Brew Day" and know that I'll be doing that, and things related, for the majority of the day. I don't plan on doing anything after brewing, since I'm never quite sure how much time it will take (still dialing in the process, and my gear)...

You are correct, of course, that boil times are the same no matter what process you use. Typically, you get your mash/sparge water up to temp faster than when you steep specialty grains (in my experience at least). You can easily heat up the mash and sparge water at the same time, so there's no difference there. Plus, you can maintain the sparge water while mashing (temp wise) so that it's ready when you are. Combine worts and boil away... :D

For home brewing, it shouldn't be a chore, or task you "have to do". If it's gotten to that point for you, it's time to stop (at least for a while)... It should be fun. If nothing else, 'sample' some of the previous batches that you still have some left of. If you don't have any left, then you waited too long before having another brew day. :mug:
 
Cost to wash yeast is virtually nil... I got several jars from family, plus I've been saving quart jars as I empty them (of food)... Picking up some small mason jars, to add to what I already have, won't be that much.

Initial setup costs for the trellis for hop growing is a flexible item. I'm still thinking about growing one, or two, hops this year. Planters (since I'm renting) are under $30 each. Then the support for the bines should run under $20 more (per plant). If I was planting in the ground, it would just be the cost to make the support setup... Considering how expensive hops are where I am (especially for cones) I could recoup my costs in under two years of brewing (if I do the max I can, which I probably will) with them.

And how long do you plan to store this "washed yeast". I won't get into the debate here, but I simply do not support the usage of "distilled water" or similar storage techniques for any considerable length of time. If you only have one house year, you can make it work... anywho... it's a discussion for a different thread...

As for the hops:

Yet you won't get any really usable quantity of hops for 2-3 years in all likelihood, especially in pots or on short trellises. The cost of rhizomes, fertilizer, water, soil, posts, wire, oast/drier, etc etc are almost certainly non-zero even under "best case" scenarios. And at today's hop prices, it makes little sense to attempt to grow them as a way of "saving yourself some money". Actually, if that's your goal, I would label it "total folly".
 
And how long do you plan to store this "washed yeast". I won't get into the debate here, but I simply do not support the usage of "distilled water" or similar storage techniques for any considerable length of time. If you only have one house year, you can make it work... anywho... it's a discussion for a different thread...

I figure that I'll plan to make sure to brew a batch with a generation within 6-9 months. Right now, I have three jars of washed yeast (one strain)... Not liking how one of the jars is separating out, since it has most of the trub in the bottom. I might sacrifice that one and just use the other two. So, I'll use one of those harvests in the next brew, harvesting/washing that yeast cake when done, saving two jars. I'll use those for the batches with that yeast for the next ~6 months, before going back to the second gen 2 jar. Brewing a batch from that, to reset it's clock. I'll plan to make sure to not let any single generation jar go more than 6 months between harvest/wash time and when it's used.

Compound that by the three strains I either have harvested, or will shortly, and that's going to be many, many, batches of beer. I very well could go more than a year before needing to purchase yeast again.

As for the hops:

Yet you won't get any really usable quantity of hops for 2-3 years in all likelihood, especially in pots or on short trellises. The cost of rhizomes, fertilizer, water, soil, posts, wire, oast/drier, etc etc are almost certainly non-zero even under "best case" scenarios. And at today's hop prices, it makes little sense to attempt to grow them as a way of "saving yourself some money". Actually, if that's your goal, I would label it "total folly".

I was looking to grow hops more for flavor/aroma hops so that I could reduce how much I need to purchase. Plus, I like the thought of using more either local, self sustained ingredients. I probably won't start growing hops for another year or more, so it's not really an issue. For the support system for the hops, I can build that up pretty cheap, with it being height adjustable. I have time to plan that out too. Once the support setup is built, I expect it to last for many, many years. So you can actually space the cost over those multiple years.

For drying, you can do that without spending all that much money. Simple as using AB's setup for making jerky can be adapted to drying hops.

Before I started buying hops, the cost of growing my own could easily be recovered when compared with buying them (LHBS is selling hops at $3/ounce when you don't buy a pound at a time, pound bags range from the low $30's on up). Figuring that I use, right now, about 2 ounces of hops per batch, my cost to setup for growing hops would be offset within 8-10 batches (if growing in the ground).

I will be planning on growing hops once I have a place of my own, and a garden. I'll simply allocate a section for hops, so it won't be an issue. Fertilizer cost won't really matter, since it can be factored into the entire cost of the garden.

BTW, most people that like to grow their own veggies don't do it to save money. Rather you get a much superior product to what you get in most stores (unless the farm is right there, and the produce for sale was harvested that day, or within a few days). I'm even considering putting in a hot house for growing veggies and hops when I get a place (provided I have enough land)...
 
I was looking to grow hops more for flavor/aroma hops so that I could reduce how much I need to purchase. Plus, I like the thought of using more either local, self sustained ingredients. I probably won't start growing hops for another year or more, so it's not really an issue. For the support system for the hops, I can build that up pretty cheap, with it being height adjustable. I have time to plan that out too. Once the support setup is built, I expect it to last for many, many years. So you can actually space the cost over those multiple years.

For drying, you can do that without spending all that much money. Simple as using AB's setup for making jerky can be adapted to drying hops.

Before I started buying hops, the cost of growing my own could easily be recovered when compared with buying them (LHBS is selling hops at $3/ounce when you don't buy a pound at a time, pound bags range from the low $30's on up). Figuring that I use, right now, about 2 ounces of hops per batch, my cost to setup for growing hops would be offset within 8-10 batches (if growing in the ground).

I will be planning on growing hops once I have a place of my own, and a garden. I'll simply allocate a section for hops, so it won't be an issue. Fertilizer cost won't really matter, since it can be factored into the entire cost of the garden.

BTW, most people that like to grow their own veggies don't do it to save money. Rather you get a much superior product to what you get in most stores (unless the farm is right there, and the produce for sale was harvested that day, or within a few days). I'm even considering putting in a hot house for growing veggies and hops when I get a place (provided I have enough land)...

You keep waving your hand at each and every item and saying "figure it into some other cost", or "pretty cheap", or yadda yadda.

Costs are real and you will never produce the hops in your garden for less than what you buy them in pelletized form at today's current prices.

I am just warning you. It is time consuming and all of those other costs are real, not just hand-waving. Do not grow your own hops if what you are planning to achieve is a cheaper source of hops. Do it because you're curious or have the interest, but cost savings are really not there to be had all things considered. I am really not trying to be condescending, it just seems you have not looked into the hop growing process in any real detail.
 
Randar, as I mentioned, not really looking at growing hops as being a cheaper item. Looking at it as being a way to add something that I made/grew to my mix. Looking to get better quality hops without spending a small fortune every trip to the LHBS, or worrying IF they will have what I want.

It will be at least a couple of years before I'm in a position to grow any, probably. So who knows what the price of hops will be like by that time.

I look at this the same way as I look at growing tomatoes... Sure, you can get them for decent prices (sometimes) but unless you're buying them close to the actual harvest time (and they are local) they almost always taste like poor shadows of what they could be. Growing your own will always give you a better fruit. Plus, you have the option of selecting which varieties you wish to grow. Not being limited to what the grocery store wants to carry, or can make more money on.

BTW, it really does sound like you're trying to piss on the idea of growing your own hops.

I don't know what YOU spend on hops, from the LHBS, but they are NOT cheap where I am. If I need any that I don't have already (from my last bulk purchase) then they are $3/ounce (more if you count fuel costs to get to the LHBS and back again)... If I can grow one hop strain that I use for flavor/aroma across a wide enough section of my brews, who's to say that's not a good idea? Who's to say that in two, or three, years the cost of buying hops won't triple? Who's to say that using natural fertilizers won't produce a superior hop compared with the commercially produced product? If I can handle dedicating the square footage to growing hops, in my yard/garden (when I have one) why not do it? If I can [eventually] grow enough hops for most of my flavor/aroma adds each season/year, why not do it? Maybe I'll be able to grow enough to handle the bittering hops too.

If someone posted that they wanted to grow their own grains, and process it themselves, and had enough land to produce enough for what they wanted to do, why try to tell them not to since it will cost more than buying it (or where/how you buy it)? We're NOT doing this as a business here, so WE don't need to over analyze ever little expense...
 
Holy **** GoldDiggie, you spend $30 a pound on hops??? That is a ridiculous price! Have you not heard of www.hopsdirect.com ? You can get 3 pounds of hops for that $30. And if you don't want that much, try any of the other online retailers... Brewmasterswarehouse.com and Farmhousesupply.com have great deals on hops. You're getting majorly hosed with those prices at your LHBS.

And to Randar, he did say he was not entirely planning on growing them to save money. His argument on gardening makes perfect sense. To some people it's about freshness, not just saving.
 
Randar, as I mentioned, not really looking at growing hops as being a cheaper item. Looking at it as being a way to add something that I made/grew to my mix. Looking to get better quality hops without spending a small fortune every trip to the LHBS, or worrying IF they will have what I want.

It will be at least a couple of years before I'm in a position to grow any, probably. So who knows what the price of hops will be like by that time.

I look at this the same way as I look at growing tomatoes... Sure, you can get them for decent prices (sometimes) but unless you're buying them close to the actual harvest time (and they are local) they almost always taste like poor shadows of what they could be. Growing your own will always give you a better fruit. Plus, you have the option of selecting which varieties you wish to grow. Not being limited to what the grocery store wants to carry, or can make more money on.

BTW, it really does sound like you're trying to piss on the idea of growing your own hops.

I don't know what YOU spend on hops, from the LHBS, but they are NOT cheap where I am. If I need any that I don't have already (from my last bulk purchase) then they are $3/ounce (more if you count fuel costs to get to the LHBS and back again)... If I can grow one hop strain that I use for flavor/aroma across a wide enough section of my brews, who's to say that's not a good idea? Who's to say that in two, or three, years the cost of buying hops won't triple? Who's to say that using natural fertilizers won't produce a superior hop compared with the commercially produced product? If I can handle dedicating the square footage to growing hops, in my yard/garden (when I have one) why not do it? If I can [eventually] grow enough hops for most of my flavor/aroma adds each season/year, why not do it? Maybe I'll be able to grow enough to handle the bittering hops too.

If someone posted that they wanted to grow their own grains, and process it themselves, and had enough land to produce enough for what they wanted to do, why try to tell them not to since it will cost more than buying it (or where/how you buy it)? We're NOT doing this as a business here, so WE don't need to over analyze ever little expense...


The whole thread was about saving money by going all grain and the yeast and hops questions about saving money there as well. So yes, it is about the cost differential IN THIS CONTEXT. If you're into the hop growing idea because it interests you, then go for it. That's the reason to do it. I have 14 hop plants and have been growing for 4 years, so I know a little something about it. It ain't gonna save you any money and it's gonna take a crapload of time. As a hobby, it's great. As a money saver, it's pointless.

I am not pissing on the idea. I am simply pointing out that you keep choosing to ignore the actual costs that will be involved and imply that it will be essentially "free". All I am saying is that it is not free, and it is almost certain to be more expensive than buying hops by the pound, as others have noted. That argument that it will save you from running to the LHBS to buy hops you don't have on hand is a non sequitur. If you use a variety the quantity you will use from a home grown hop, it would have been in your bulk purchase order, so stop comparing apples to oranges (again).
 
Just to highlight my point, just 3 days ago:

Start growing your own hops, and there's another place to save on cost. Both can be done for either extract, PM or AG brewing too.

BTW, if you buy from the right source, you can get really good prices on hop pellets. Prices under $1.25/ounce (the LHBS I visit is getting $3/ounce on pellet hops right now). Even less when you buy more (that's for one 4 ounce package, discounts get better the more you buy of a kind)...


and then just minutes ago:

Randar, as I mentioned, not really looking at growing hops as being a cheaper item.

and

If I need any that I don't have already (from my last bulk purchase) then they are $3/ounce (more if you count fuel costs to get to the LHBS and back again)...

You're going in circles.
 
arguing.jpg
 
My Simcoe SMaSH APA I'm brewing this weekend is going to cost me about $9-$10 for 3 gallon batch. It would cost about $13-$14 for a 5 gallon batch.

If I were to do extract it'd be around $22-$26 for that same 3 gallon batch.
 
Wow, who dug up the 2 year old thread and why?

Oh well. Yes AG is cheaper once you start hitting your efficiency, and get pay yourself back on the added equipment.

At my LHBS, they make up extract kits to include LME, any specialty grains, hops and yeast. They range from just under $40 to about $53. I like stouts--they're on the higher in price. DME substitute increases price a little. So how many batches until I pay back the 9 gallon pot, the burner, silicone tubing, and the 40qt cooler/mlt? Oh and I also bought a barley crusher for about the price of 2 or 3 extract kits, and buy marris otter in bulk, which is really only about 6 to 7 batches per 55#...
 
........................................ What does all the arguing about hops and yeast washing have to do with anything????? The question was whether all grain is cheaper than extract. Hop and yeast use are identical whether you are doing extract are all grain. The only relavent comparisons here are Grain prices vs. Malt Extract and equipment costs, and time if you choose to go there or include that (I wouldn't)................................

The good answer is that it depends on a number of variables and how you look at it.

Looking strictly at it from an ingredients standpoint..... all-grain IS cheaper .... FACT

Looking strictly at equipment needed ..... Extract IS cheaper, FACT (you need a few extra pieces of equipment no matter how cheap you can make them) ..... (yes there's BIAB ..... but whatever).

Now depending on how long you have been brewing you may make up your equipment cost in ingredients saving ..... case by case (variable)

All-grain takes a little longer ..... How much depends on your process. Up to 2 hours and only as much as 30 minutes for some. Depending on how much you value your time and how much you enjoy the hobby this could make all-grain "cheaper" or "more expensive" depending on how you look at it if your factor time in, HA.
 
While the argument is silly, growing your own hops can be cheap. Set it up to water itself or put water on once a day isn't a huge "chore". throwing some fertilizer on it twice a year isn't a big deal, either. The only time-consuming part is harvesting, and that takes an evening with a couple of friends for POUNDS of hops, if you plant enough.

You will get a much better yield if they are put directly in the ground. The roots will grow many feet deep and sustain a very large plant.
 
My dry stout cost $15 for 5 gallons, my fanfockingtastic IPA $25, my Imperial light brown hop bomb ale $30. My efficiency is 65-68% which is on the low side.
 
I did the math and it is waaaaaaay cheaper to brew extract then AG.
In my LHBS, 2-row is $1.30/lb., LME is $2.50/lb.
9 lbs 2-row will cost you $11.70.
6 lbs LME (same as 9 lbs 2-row) cost you $15.
Propane cost me about $7/batch, so extract is already cheaper then AG. When you add hundreds or thousands of $ for AG equipment, the choice becomes a no-brainer.

I sill like to brew AG, but let's be real - AG is MUCH more expensive then Extract.
 
I did the math and it is waaaaaaay cheaper to brew extract then AG.
In my LHBS, 2-row is $1.30/lb., LME is $2.50/lb.
9 lbs 2-row will cost you $11.70.
6 lbs LME (same as 9 lbs 2-row) cost you $15.
Propane cost me about $7/batch, so extract is already cheaper then AG. When you add hundreds or thousands of $ for AG equipment, the choice becomes a no-brainer.

I sill like to brew AG, but let's be real - AG is MUCH more expensive then Extract.


7$ worth of propane? Are you doing a 3 hour boil?
 
Also, the only other equipment I got when going from Extract - AG was a MLT that I built myself for $50.
My extract batches were costing me 25-30 dollars a batch.
Once I went AG, and got bulk grains/hops and reused yeast, I'm at $12 for 5 gallons of a hoppy IPA.
 
Here is a list of the most basic AG equipment:
30 qt turkey fryier: $80
propane tank: $20
most basic cooler converted to MLT: ~ $60
25' AC built: ~ $60

That's already over $200, and I bet you there is a bunch of little stuff I can't even think about right now. And we are talking the most basic brewing setup. If you want to see thousands of $ spent on this stuff just check out the photo section of this forum (I myself have dropped a pretty penny on this stuff over the years). :D

As I said before, if you use a basic generic brand LME instead of DME or the expensive LME (my LHBS sells cheap LME by the #) it's cheaper to go Extract before you even start adding all this equipment cost.
 
As long as you are happy with the beer you are making.
My quality of my AG beers are light years above any of the extract stuff I made.
I have so much more control over my beers now.


Like I said, I had the turkey fryer and everything for extract, so it wasn't a huge jump. The jump in quality however was.
 
Here is a list of the most basic AG equipment:
30 qt turkey fryier: $80
propane tank: $20
most basic cooler converted to MLT: ~ $60
25' AC built: ~ $60

That's already over $200, and I bet you there is a bunch of little stuff I can't even think about right now. And we are talking the most basic brewing setup, you whant to see thousands of $ spent on this stuff just check out the photo secyion of this forum (I myself have droped a pretty penny on this stuff over the years). :D

As I said before, if you use a basic generic brand LME instead of DME or the expensive LME (my LHBS sells cheap LME by the #) it's cheaper to go Extract before you even start adding all this equipment cost.

Or... 30qt Turkey Fryer $45 (but I already had it for extract brewing)
$7 for material to make 2 grain bags (no MLT needed if you BIAB)
$0 for no-chill brewing
so that was an increase of $7 for me to switch to AG..

the point is, it can cost a small fortune, or it can cost very little, the equipment costs are not an every batch cost. the ingredients be it grain or extract is where the cost savings is.
 
Here is a list of the most basic AG equipment:
30 qt turkey fryier: $80
propane tank: $20
most basic cooler converted to MLT: ~ $60
25' AC built: ~ $60

That's already over $200, and I bet you there is a bunch of little stuff I can't even think about right now. And we are talking the most basic brewing setup. If you want to see thousands of $ spent on this stuff just check out the photo section of this forum (I myself have dropped a pretty penny on this stuff over the years). :D

As I said before, if you use a basic generic brand LME instead of DME or the expensive LME (my LHBS sells cheap LME by the #) it's cheaper to go Extract before you even start adding all this equipment cost.

Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.
2) If you are boiling on your stove now, there is no reason you can't do the same and skip the turkey fryer and propane tank. (you can do single kettle AG without complication)

So, the only cost difference in setup is your MT and fittings. Now, go back to your ridiculous price assumptions of $1.30/pound and substitute base grain per pound prices with $0.80/pound by using domestic malt by the sack.

Now, equipment costs are a valid argument once you start getting into buying larger volume capable equipment, mills, etc, but those are not necessary to brew All Grain in equivalent batch sizes to whatever your current extract batch sizes are.
 
:mug:
Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.
2) If you are boiling on your stove now, there is no reason you can't do the same and skip the turkey fryer and propane tank. (you can do single kettle AG without complication)

So, the only cost difference in setup is your MT and fittings. Now, go back to your ridiculous price assumptions of $1.30/pound and substitute base grain per pound prices with $0.80/pound by using domestic malt by the sack.

Now, equipment costs are a valid argument once you start getting into buying larger volume capable equipment, mills, etc, but those are not necessary to brew All Grain in equivalent batch sizes to whatever your current extract batch sizes are.
 
While the argument is silly, growing your own hops can be cheap. Set it up to water itself or put water on once a day isn't a huge "chore". throwing some fertilizer on it twice a year isn't a big deal, either. The only time-consuming part is harvesting, and that takes an evening with a couple of friends for POUNDS of hops, if you plant enough.

You will get a much better yield if they are put directly in the ground. The roots will grow many feet deep and sustain a very large plant.

So your irrigation system is free, timers are free, water is free, sisal or other twine is free, rhizomes are free, cable/pulley/hangers are free, posts are free, your drying racks/system is free, and your fertilizer is free.

I have that all correct then? Did I miss anything else? Domestic pellet hops are around 75-85 cents per ounce. You think you spend less than $10 per pound including time and opportunity cost to do it?

That would be quite the feat. As I previously noted, though, if you enjoy it and you do it as a hobby and discount all of your time and opportunity cost, then you might be about "even" to produce hops you don't even know what the alpha acid content is and get minimal harvest until at least year 3.

Unless you are going to itemize the costs for your set-up and prove it, let's just say I have my doubts (because I have done the analysis for my setup which is not terrible expensive on its own).
 
Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.
2) If you are boiling on your stove now, there is no reason you can't do the same and skip the turkey fryer and propane tank. (you can do single kettle AG without complication)

Not quite fuzzy math. I don't need an immersion chiller with my partial boil extract batches (so I'd need to buy or make something to jump to AG) and my electric stove can barely handle boiling 3 gallons of wort. There is ZERO chance I could jump to all grain without a turkey fryer and propane tank to go with it.
 
Not quite fuzzy math. I don't need an immersion chiller with my partial boil extract batches (so I'd need to buy or make something to jump to AG) and my electric stove can barely handle boiling 3 gallons of wort. There is ZERO chance I could jump to all grain without a turkey fryer and propane tank to go with it.

And why couldn't you do partial boil or split boil all grain again? If you're going to compare apples to apples, stop throwing in oranges. Even then, if you throw in a cheap turkey fryer and IC and propane tanks you will be able to recover those equipment costs in just a handful of batches.
 
Wow, you have got some seriously fuzzy math going there...

1) Having a 25' IC or other chiller is irrespective of going AG or doing Extract.

BTW, I just helped a buddy of mine w/ his first brew (Extract), and the best part of it was that instead of chilling the wort we simply dumped it on ~6 lbs of ice from the fridge and we got pitching temps in about 15 sec!!! :D The whole "brewday" took under 2 hours and that included cleaning and getting waisted :D
 
Back
Top