All grain boil loss

[littled630]

So im just getting into all grain batches, i have done i think two batches. Now unlike extract i cant start with extra water to compensate for boil off. So after i mash, sparge, and boil am i able to just boil plain water in the amount i need to get the right volume and add it? If i can do that without changing the flavor, do i add the water during boil or do i boil it seperately for 10-15 minutes and add it once both are down to 70°?

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[littled630]

I think i put this in the wrong thread lol

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[littled630]

So im just getting into all grain batches, i have done i think two batches. Now unlike extract i cant start with extra water to compensate for boil off. So after i mash, sparge, and boil am i able to just boil plain water in the amount i need to get the right volume and add it? If i can do that without changing the flavor, do i add the water during boil or do i boil it seperately for 10-15 minutes and add it once both are down to 70°?



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[Yooper]

So im just getting into all grain batches, i have done i think two batches. Now unlike extract i cant start with extra water to compensate for boil off. So after i mash, sparge, and boil am i able to just boil plain water in the amount i need to get the right volume and add it? If i can do that without changing the flavor, do i add the water during boil or do i boil it seperately for 10-15 minutes and add it once both are down to 70°?

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You generally sparge up to your boil volume. Say you want 5.25 gallons at the end of the boil, and you boil off 1.5 gallons per hour. You simply start with 6.75 gallons of wort.

 

[brewkinger]

So im just getting into all grain batches, i have done i think two batches. Now unlike extract i cant start with extra water to compensate for boil off. So after i mash, sparge, and boil am i able to just boil plain water in the amount i need to get the right volume and add it? If i can do that without changing the flavor, do i add the water during boil or do i boil it seperately for 10-15 minutes and add it once both are down to 70°?

Why not?

I will wait for more information to make sure that i am understanding you correctly.
AG is no different from extract in that regard.

Your pre boil volume takes into account that you will lose some to evaporation, some to trub loss in the kettle and even loss that remains in the lines and pump if you have one.

 

[littled630]

Well during mash there are certain water volumes to use. And by the time i am done mashing and sparging on a 1 gal batch i have a smidge under a gallon pre boil. What im understanding from what your saying is i could add to a gallon and a half preboil(gallon and a half is what i started with when doing 1 gal extract)? So basically i could do it pre boil or boil the extra i need seperately and add after cooling, either way would work?

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[littled630]

So sparging i dont need to have the water volumes that are called for? Generally mash 1.25 quarts per pound and i dont remember what i did for sparge but just re read my sheet and it does say sparge till you have 1-2 gallons over desired batch size

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[brewkinger]

If you have a smidge UNDER a gallon pre boil then you are not using the correct volumes for an AG batch.

Lets assume:
2 pounds of grain
Mashed with 1.25 qts of water PER pound of grain ===> 2.5 qts of water for the MASH

Grain absorbs 0.5 qts per pound of grain =====> 1 qt of that 2.5 from above leaving you with 1.5 qts of FIRST RUNNINGS.

Sparge with 4.5 qts of water to (the grain has absorbed all it can and now whatever you put in, YOU get out) to bring you up to 6 qts (1.5 gallon) preboil.

Make sense?

 

[littled630]

Yes thank you. Not sure what i was doing cause i just re read my sheet and it even says sparge to 1-2 gallons over batch volume(directions are for 5 gallons) so somewhere i miss read or understood my directions lol but it all makes sense now thank you very much!!!!!

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[plankbr]

If you have a smidge UNDER a gallon pre boil then you are not using the correct volumes for an AG batch.

Lets assume:
2 pounds of grain
Mashed with 1.25 qts of water PER pound of grain ===> 2.5 qts of water for the MASH

Grain absorbs 0.5 qts per pound of grain =====> 1 qt of that 2.5 from above leaving you with 1.5 qts of FIRST RUNNINGS.

Sparge with 4.5 qts of water to (the grain has absorbed all it can and now whatever you put in, YOU get out) to bring you up to 6 qts (1.5 gallon) preboil.

Make sense?

+1
For AG, you need to do a full boil. Finding out what is lost in the process will be different for everyone.

My mash (1.5 qt/pound) yields me anywhere from 2.5-3 gallons of 1st runnings. My setup needs 7 gallons pre-boil, so I sparge with 4-4.5 gallons of water. This will yield me 5.75 post boil (I boil off ~1.25 gallons in an hour). Then after i filter out the 'waste' when transferring to the primary fermenter, there is ~5.25 gallons of actual wort. After fermentation, there is roughly 5 gallons after it is racked off the trub.

Adding water, outside of sparging, at any point after the boil starts will simply dilute your wort and your numbers will come in lower than expected.

 

[DogStar]

You can certainly add water to the boiler to take the boil off volume into account. However, I think most people account for it in the sparge volume. If you need 1.5 gallons to get 1 gallon in the fermentor then collect 1.5 gallons from the sparge.

It took me about 5 batches to work out the volumes I needed. You have to take the grain absorption and deadspaces etc into account. Using software such as beersmith helps but you still have to tweak it for your equipment. It's all part of the fun.

 

[littled630]

Thanks guys all very helpful. With my one gallon extract brews i have about a half gallon an hour boil off. I would think it would be the same with AG, but that brings up a question, if its .5 gal/hr boil off on one gallon does that stay the same to a 5 gal batch or will my boil off increase due to the increased volume and kettle size? Typically i do 1 gal batches to get the recipe were i want it then go to 5 gal with it. My extract batches have gone to 5 gallons and i have a spotted cow clone(AG) that should be going 5 gal after a few adjustments on the next 1 gal of it

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[littled630]

It's all part of the fun.

Agreed for sure i love every bit of homebrewing and am working towards doing a micro brewery when i get a good recipe and knowledge base built up!!!!!

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[plankbr]

Thanks guys all very helpful. With my one gallon extract brews i have about a half gallon an hour boil off. I would think it would be the same with AG, but that brings up a question, if its .5 gal/hr boil off on one gallon does that stay the same to a 5 gal batch or will my boil off increase due to the increased volume and kettle size? Typically i do 1 gal batches to get the recipe were i want it then go to 5 gal with it. My extract batches have gone to 5 gallons and i have a spotted cow clone(AG) that should be going 5 gal after a few adjustments on the next 1 gal of it

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The boil off rate should still be the same whether it's 1 gallon or 5 gallons. You will still lose 1/2 gallon/hr.

 

[littled630]

The boil off rate should still be the same whether it's 1 gallon or 5 gallons. You will still lose 1/2 gallon/hr.

Cool thats what i figured but wasnt sure, thanks.

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