All around english yeast

[ESBrewer]

So it's no surprise std Munich won't make proper Hefeweizen because it is a neutral strain unable to produce the key compounds, esters and phenols...

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If Lallemand get is yeasts from Doemens, then why does the Deputy Laboratory Manager and Director of the Yeast Bank and Micro-Organism Collection of Doemens Academy GmbH, state the following:

We offer eight different dry yeasts from the Lallemand company (Canada) ...

https://blog.krones.com/craftbeer/the-phantom-of-the-beer-yeast/

 

[z-bob]

I was going to say S-33, but Silver beat me to it. I have no idea why Fermantis calls it "Belgian"

K1V-1116 wine yeast might be worth a try. It's dirt-cheap, and I've used it a couple of times as an ale yeast and it works well. But I'm not sure if the ester profile is "English" enough. (try it and report back

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Lallemand isn't small potatoes. They own the Siebel Institute of Technology, and it would not surprise me to learn that they also own Doemens.

 

[ESBrewer]

If Lallemand get is yeasts from Doemens, then why does the Deputy Laboratory Manager and Director of the Yeast Bank and Micro-Organism Collection of Doemens Academy GmbH, state the following:
https://blog.krones.com/craftbeer/the-phantom-of-the-beer-yeast/

Well this is what Lallemand catalogue says: "Munich Classic is a Bavarian wheat beer strain selected from the Doemens Culture Collection." So it seems they co-operate closely, Doemens banks yeasts and Lallemand produces the dry yeast for breweries.

 

[mediant]

If Lallemand get is yeasts from Doemens, then why does the Deputy Laboratory Manager and Director of the Yeast Bank and Micro-Organism Collection of Doemens Academy GmbH, state the following:
https://blog.krones.com/craftbeer/the-phantom-of-the-beer-yeast/

That's cheating
We offer eight different dry yeasts from the Lallemand company (Canada), which are dried and sold all over the world in a cooperative arrangement with Doemens.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Well this is what Lallemand catalogue says: "Munich Classic is a Bavarian wheat beer strain selected from the Doemens Culture Collection."

But if Lallemand owns Doemans, all of this would be quite logical.

 

[ESBrewer]

I don't think they own Doemans (who knows) but they co-operate to produce dried versions of banked yeast to the markets.

 

[mediant]

So it's no surprise std Munich won't make proper Hefeweizen because it is a neutral strain unable to produce the key compounds, esters and phenols...

Never tried plain Munich, but Lallemand believes it still may - https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/Datasheets/Yeast - Lallemand Yeast Product Catalogue.pdf
They suggest longer boil for thermal 4VG decarboxylation and underpitch and/or variation of Hermann mash. If I'm not mistaken, that mash regimen is from Doemens too (Michael Eder).

 

[thehaze]

Munich Classic is Weihenstephaner, or at least is what I could find out and it works very well. One of the most expressive and estery DRY yeast ou there.

 

[mediant]

Munich Classic is Weihenstephaner, or at least is what I could find out and it works very well. One of the most expressive and estery DRY yeast ou there.

I agree, its flavor profile is very close to Weihenstephaner. Here's what Doemens say about it:
This is a breed of strain 476. It has similar fermentation properties with a higher ester production which pronounces the fruity flavour of the beer (banana flavour).

Strain 476 supposedly is Weihenstephaner:
The strain 476 produces a balanced flavour profile with notes of clove and banana. The produced beers show the balanced and typical aromatic taste of Bavarian wheat beers. Due to it’s good fermentation properties (high yeast growth and fermentation) these strain is the most frequently used bavarian wheat beer strain. Other yeast collections provide it under a different name.

 

[thehaze]

I've used Munich Classic 3 times and every time it is a HEFE. I did notice that fermentation temps. do change the ester profile, but not by much. I like warmer temperatures and more banana, fruity esters. It's quite good for a dry yeast. I mean, it makes great beer, without any struggles. Annd for how limited and few dry yeast strains we have available, this one is one of the better ones. Certainly worth taking into consideration when brewing Hefes...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That's the first time I've seen strain numbers for Munich and Classic, thanks. Genome sequencing tells us that Munich Classic is pretty close to (but not identical to) Wyeast 3068, which is traditionally linked to Weihenstephan 68, whereas Munich ordinary is related to but a definite outlier of the hefe group that includes 3068 but also WLP300/380/351(Weihenstephan 66?).

Doemens is a non-profit organisation that set up the World Brewing Academy in conjunction with Siebel in 2000, the same year that Lallemand bought Siebel. So they have a close link with that bit of the Lallemand empire , and it's not surprising that they chose Lallemand as a route to market, effectively outsourcing the industrial production of their strains as dry yeast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

"Munich yeast can produce phenolic flavours" rather contradicts the statement that Munich is POF-.....

 

[dmtaylor]

"Munich yeast can produce phenolic flavours" rather contradicts the statement that Munich is POF-.....

Agreed. And setting genetics aside, with respect to flavor, the standard Munich yeast seems to have more in common with the Munich helles style than to a Bavarian hefeweizen, in my experience. It's clean and boring.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Lallemand has been in business since the late 19th century, and has been developing and marketing yeasts since 1923. Per their website they operate companies in 40 countries on 5 continents. But it was not until the early 90's that they became involved in brewing yeast, so perhaps that is where Doemens enters the picture.

Lallemand is present in 40 countries on 5 continents. With a global network of yeast and bacteria production plants, research laboratories, distribution centers and commercial offices across the world, Lallemand is able to serve its customers worldwide and bring innovative products and solutions with the highest standards of quality, reliability and flexibility.

Yeast plants

• In Canada
• In the U.S.A.
• In Europe: Austria, Germany, Estonia, Denmark, Finland, Portugal, Slovakia, Poland, UK
• In Africa: South Africa and Mozambique (50% JV)

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

In this Lallemand global distributor list Doemens is listed as a distributor of Lallemand yeasts. If it was the other way around, wouldn't Lallemand be listing themselves as a distributor of Doemens yeasts?

http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/info/GLOBAL_DISTRIBUTOR_LIST_DIGITAL.pdf

 

[Northern_Brewer]

In this Lallemand global distributor list Doemens is listed as a distributor of Lallemand yeasts. If it was the other way around, wouldn't Lallemand be listing themselves as a distributor of Doemens yeasts?

http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/info/GLOBAL_DISTRIBUTOR_LIST_DIGITAL.pdf

No, you're way overthinking this. The thing that's being distributed is packets of dry yeast. That dry yeast is made in a Lallemand factory. Hence, that dry yeast is "Lallemand yeast". The original source of the strains can be all sorts - a lot of their wine yeasts originate in the collection of the ICV at Montpellier for instance, but you wouldn't say that Lallemand was a distributor of ICV strains like K1V-1116.