Alfatoxin in grains

[bracconiere]

BTW.. Michigan is home to some wonderful Morel spots. I am patiently awaiting a handmade mushroom knife from my pal in Illinois.

hey man i always wanted a fresh morel to plant in my front yard, because passers by always left my tobacco alone. (only place i got enough sun to grow them)


you could next day me a fresh one, and i'll grow it out and send, some colonized wood/compost, forget what they like, back to you and you'll never have to 'go hunting' again! just burrie them in your yard!


other then that, not many people malt there're own here....so i'd imagine the malt they get is pretty safe. but people should remember it's not like beer and not just ask "how does it taste?"

 

[MaxStout]

The few people I've met who do home-malting tend to make specialty grains, like toasted or smoked grain. The heat from that will usually kill any molds or other nasties. But low-temps in making base malts could leave it open to infection if not done right. YMMV

@bracconiere is kind of our in-house DIY malt guy.

 

[bracconiere]

The heat from that will usually kill any molds or other nasties. But low-temps in making base malts could leave it open to infection if not done right. YMMV

actually the toxin is allready made...so killing the messanger doesn't get rid of the toxin....

but if a person is just getting base malt wet to stew for making crystal malt, i doubt it'd be wet and at a temp for the mold to grow long enough....

 

[MaxStout]

Not home-malting, but I've always wanted to smoke malt. I loves me some Rauchbiers, especially Schlenkerla Eiche. Would do an oak smoke of some Pilsner.
@Schlenkerla has some good info on that.

 

[bracconiere]

Not home-malting, but I've always wanted to smoke malt. I loves me some Rauchbiers, especially Schlenkerla Eiche. Would do an oak smoke of some Pilsner.
@Schlenkerla has some good info on that.

i've done smoked malt...but to me it takes serious aging to be good....otherwise it tastes like a rash, smoked rash...but with like 4-5 months forgetting about it, it turned to beautiful, mild sweet smoke flavor....

 

[Sammy86]

fusarium is another real threat. happened to me, i think. i was warned not to drink gushers, but i keg, and though my keg was just over carbed. 2 days later, my liver hurt so bad, i could barely get out of bed...now when i'm malting everything gets a bleach soak, and scrub before the barley goes in.

(i manged to clear it up in a month though, with meticulous eating habits )

Was this before or after you sent me grain that I've brewed two beers with? LoL...My family and I are still kicking so I'm going with after...

 

[oakbarn]

OMG CNN reports 1000s of home brewers getting ill from Alfatoxins !!!!!

 

[bracconiere]

Was this before or after you sent me grain that I've brewed two beers with? LoL...My family and I are still kicking so I'm going with after...

i assure you, your malt was soaked in a bleach soaked tub, scrubed. and the malt had plenty of free air while sprouting....


it's really not more dangerous then sprouting any grain....but something to keep in mind....

edit: and your naturaly carbed beers wern't gushers!


i consider it safer then eating chicken!

 

[DuncB]

Relax it appears that boiling and a low pH will reduce aflatoxin to some extent.
Further fermenting with S.Cerevisae could reduce from a toxic level 20 ppB to a safe level after 3 days.

I think you'd need to drink a lot of beer to get poisoned by the aflatoxin and might get poisoned by the ethanol first.

Seems to be more lethal for children than adults.
Chronic exposure can cause liver cirrhosis where have I heard that before.

 

[bracconiere]

For the record, my statements are what i consider the equivalent of a package of meat saying "be sure to cook thoroughly".....

 

[DuncB]

If it's a packet of tunafish steak "be sure to cook thoroughly" won't help if it's contaminated with Scromboid.

Heat stable toxin.

Been there, done it and survived but was a bit flushed for a while. Antihistamines help.

 

[bracconiere]

If it's a packet of tunafish steak "be sure to cook thoroughly" won't help if it's contaminated with Scromboid.

Heat stable toxin.

Been there, done it and survived but was a bit flushed for a while. Antihistamines help.

agreed, which is why proper practice is needed before whatever that is grows in the first place....


i don't want to scare people out of malting, just want to make sure they don't get food poisoning from it. who knows might HAVE to malt your own if InBev had their way.

i hear people can eat medium rare pork now? because it's not infested with trich too....

 

[Stormcrow]

Perhaps OP can come up with something more reliable than "boots on the ground," some trucker dude, or somesuch? Perhaps some empirical data from someone qualified to make a scientific determination? Give us some facts. Where is this prevalent? What varieties are being susceptible? Etc. You know, some real science. Preferably from primary sources, not some screed from an internet rando.

I'll wait.

Many of us are aware of aflatoxins (not "alfatoxins") and what they can do, and I'm not doubting that the contamination can crop up (pun intentional). But posting some chicken little scare piece does us no good. Show us the data.

Certified grain testers run these tests at the elevator before receiving delivery. I'm sure that is what the trucker is referring to, and I don't doubt his story at all. Wheat was hit hard with this stuff a few years ago in indiana. Numerous loads were rejected outright. If I were sourcing unmodified grain direct from the source, I would take any truckers report on these things very seriously. Again, that's if you're malting your own. Any commercial product should've been screened and declared safe long before it gets on the shelf.

 

[DuncB]

Or at least test it on the chickens, dogs and children first.

 

[MaxStout]

Any commercial product should've been screened and declared safe long before it gets on the shelf.

Which brings us full circle to OP's initial claim. This "scare" is essentially a non-issue, and OP is unwilling/unable to offer up any evidence to the contrary. If you're going to drop into a discussion board with, "ZOMG, it's toxins in our grain!," you'd better have some data to support it.

Tempest in a teapot.

 

[bracconiere]

and children first.

see if they ferment?

 

[Stormcrow]

I

Which brings us full circle to OP's initial claim. This "scare" is essentially a non-issue, and OP is unwilling/unable to offer up any evidence to the contrary. If you're going to drop into a discussion board with, "ZOMG, it's toxins in our grain!," you'd better have some data to support it.

Tempest in a teapot.

I think the OP was pretty clear that his concern was for people who grow their own grains or source them direct from a farmer, in which case they probably wouldn't be tested for aflatoxin unless the buyer ran a sample by the elevator. I've wondered about that myself.

 

[DuncB]

see if they ferment?

yes one less job for the yeast.

 

[Kickass]

Maybe I’m the minority, judging by the reception, but I didn’t take the OP as starting an unnecessary scare. They were pretty clear who their intended audience was and didn’t seem to be attempting to create fear. Just your average PSA if you ask me. I also don’t think it was wrong to ask for data but cringed a little at how forceful the request it came off.

 

[rancocas]

What is the origin of this toxin? Is it related to pesticides or some other source (runoff issue)? Thanks!

Aflatoxin, vomitoxin and other mycotoxins are naturally occurring and toxic. Commercial farming is on top of the situation.