Ale Gone BAD

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

Hey guys,
I brewed the Heiniestella European Delight recipe from p 183 of Papazian's book. The beer looked quite dark for one with light syrup. A forum member suggested a late addition of 1/2 the extract; advice that came after the brewing was done. It's been in bottles since July 17th and it still sucks. It tastes poor and it's quite dark despite having no grains. I'm tempted to dump the whole batch.
Any guesses as to what went wrong? Perhaps I burned the syrup? This seems odd because most recipes ask for an hour of cooking. I'm concerned because I just brewed the American Real Ale from the same book and it looks quite dark too (but it's amber DME).
thanks in advance
S-HOL

 

[HeadyKilowatt]

Any chance you got some old LME? It will deteriorate over time, even in the can.

 

[bknifefight]

Your concern of burning the LME could be right since you added half later. I assume the flame was on when it was added. LME sinks to the bottom and without adding it very slowly and stirring like a bastard, I see this as a real possibility.

 

[progmac]

Sounds like old LME to me

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

I think the old LME is a strong possibility. The HBS was offering a clear out price. In response to one of the replies, I didn't use the late extra addition (1/2 at the end) b/c I got the advice after the brewing.
I was just reading Revvy's thread about not dumping batches. I'm wondering if this ale will improve over time.

 

[billl]

In your prior posts, I thought you subbed out all of the hops and were having some confusion about which yeast to use and what temp to ferment at. What did you finally end up with?

Some flaws improve with time. Some you are just stuck with. If you can describe your process a little better and describe the off flavors more, you'll get some more help pinning down what went wrong and whether there is a way to fix it at this point.

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

You have a good memory, Bill.
I decided not to sub out the hops, bought the Perle and Liberty, and saved the sub hops for my Honey Ale leftovers recipe (which tastes incredible).
I used Nottingham Ale Yeast. The HBS uses Notty for both Ales and Lagers and they turn out well (and it's inexpensive).
I brewed the Heiniestella on the main floor of the house so at about 22 Celsius (x 1.8 + 32 = 72).
I think the LME may have been old. It had a red sticker with a date from a month earlier. I should have asked about it at the time. I guess I could call them up and ask if it's a packed or expired date. I think I'm skip using that HBS because they are sloppy. They don't even refrigerate their hops.
thanks
SHAL

 

[ludomonster]

The color isn't going to improve with time. As for brewing with extract, I think it's a good idea to use light, extra-light, or gold extracts, and to then use grains for coloring. Unless the extract has a Lovibond rating, it's difficult to predict the color of extract. This also gives you more control over the flavor of the beer. Liquid extract will get darker over time because the coloring reactions will continue to occur at a slow rate. Dry extract won't do this, but many people believe that liquid extract tastes better. You have to decide which is more important. Irish moss will make your beer lighter.

Your boil volume can affect color. If you're doing a partial boil, the concentrated wort can darken more quickly. Also, the vigor of the boil can promote darkening. Use just enough heat to get a rolling boil.

Evaluating color is also a tricky task. The glass, ambient light, reference colors, and beer volume all play a role in how you percieve the color. Since you're complaining about flavor as well, this is probably less of an issue than what I mentioned above.

I make beer by mashing 5-6 pounds of grain and increasing the gravity with light or extra-light DME near the end of the boil. I control the color by choosing specialty grains to mash along with base malts.

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

oh and the taste.... it's hard to taste the hops (they were fresh from another HBS). Hard to pinpoint the taste. It's not that it's totally nasty. It just isn't enjoyable. There is an aftertaste on my tongue that is unpleasant. It builds up on your tongue until you don't want to finish the glass.

 

[ludomonster]

Is the taste like any of these? As for not tasting hops, there shouldn't be a lot of hop flavor in this beer.

 

[DPBISME]

Hey guys,
I brewed the Heiniestella European Delight recipe from p 183 of Papazian's book. The beer looked quite dark for one with light syrup. A forum member suggested a late addition of 1/2 the extract; advice that came after the brewing was done. It's been in bottles since July 17th and it still sucks. It tastes poor and it's quite dark despite having no grains. I'm tempted to dump the whole batch.
Any guesses as to what went wrong? Perhaps I burned the syrup? This seems odd because most recipes ask for an hour of cooking. I'm concerned because I just brewed the American Real Ale from the same book and it looks quite dark too (but it's amber DME).
thanks in advance
S-HOL

Sorry I may have missed it but... tastes poor?

Could you be more descriptive?

Without more information; I like the "old extract" idea and agree with the scorched wort possiblity but could it be you just don't like the outcome?

Has anyone else tasted it?

I have brewed beer I cannot drink and others love it...

DPB

 

[billl]

The nottingham is a high floc yeast and many people think it dulls the hops down a bit. It also has a rep for kicking off some esters and diacetyl at higher temps. If your ambient temp was 72, the brew temp was probably 75+. Even 72 is above the recommended range, so 75+ is pushing it. Those tend to tone down with aging, but may still be permanently noticable depending on their initial levels.

But certainly, if you had some old LME, that can ruin an otherwise solid brew even if nothing else was wrong. Unfortunately, unless you have a time machine, old LME isn't something you can fix.

At this point, unless you are completely pressed for space, i'd just stick these on a shelf and forget about them for a month or 2.

 

[YulebeHoppin]

Hop utilization may be a bit down because of the concentrated boil. That's one of the main reasons I used to do late additions of my extract (never was worried about color.)

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

I brew all my beers in the same spot and the same temp with Notty yeast and they all turn out well so it's not a yeast problem. The recipes lists the beer at 40 IBUs so I should taste the hops. I guess the old syrup is the culprit. I will let it sit for another couple of months before dumping.