Aging in Kegs - Is it sealed well?

[ImNewToBrew]

Hey Guys,
I've been aging some of my ales in a keg putting a light amount of pressure and then disconnecting the gas line and storing in a room. I noticed that the pressure is well kept for the first day (meaning I could not pop the lid off). After that the lid could be popped with a light amount of pressure, but not overly easy.

I've always attributed this to the pressure in the headspace has been absorbed into the beer, and the headspace is now at less pressure, but still filled with CO2 and not letting oxygen in.

I figured I would ask this to make sure what I experience is normal

Note, that I did due the usual pressure checks with soapy water to make sure there is no obvious leaks, and the post/lid are holding pressure.

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Gavin C]

Yes that's what's happening. The beer absorbs the CO2, headspace pressure drops till there is no longer any positive sealing pressure.

I always carb my beers immediately when they go in the keg. This can be as done in as little as 24 hours with no shaking being needed.

Take the keg to where you want it to condition and it will remain sealed assuming there are no leaks. The beer contains plenty of CO2 so the headspace will equalize at a high pressure maintaining a solid seal indefinitely.

 

[chickypad]

As Gavin mentioned a more foolproof way is to just carb it fully first. I have aged uncarbed kegs a number of times, though I take extra care ensuring a seal. First I pick a keg that I know from experience seals easily, use a good amount of keg lube on the lid, and hit it with a fairly high burst of pressure. I've aged kegs this way for months and they have stayed sealed, i.e. when I go to put them in the keezer they still have a small burst of pressure from the relief valve.

 

[pvpeacock]

I aged an uncarbonated coffee stout for a year in a keg without any problem. However, I think the safer bet is to age a carbonated beer in the keg. In lieu of carbonating it with a CO2 tank before storing, consider naturally carbonating it in the keg with priming sugar.

 

[ImNewToBrew]

Thanks. I appreciate all the feedback. I hadn't thought of carbing before I age, a few questions that come to mind:

1) Is oxygen influence less critical after carbing? Not sure I understand why it's better for aging if it's carbonated versus uncarbed.
2) Does carbing affect the aging at all? I've always aged uncarbed
3) Slightly off topic, but... for my current brew (Saison) I was thinking of re-pitching when I transfer into the keg. Something I haven't done before. I'm using dregs that I had built up from a bottle of St. Bernardus. Would this effectively serve the purpose of carbonation?

Thanks in advance!

 

[chickypad]

As far as I know and IME carbonating doesn't affect the aging process either way, though temp will so if you are carbing it cold that will slow down the aging. As far as why to carb first I'm pretty sure we were all talking about keeping the keg sealed, at least I was. If the keg is fully carbed it will not absorb any more CO2 in the headspace and will have plenty of pressure to stay sealed. Not quite sure I understand your last question, you still need to add priming sugar if you are naturally carbing. Why are you adding more yeast, did you age it a really long time or something?

 

[JuanMoore]

Thanks. I appreciate all the feedback. I hadn't thought of carbing before I age, a few questions that come to mind:

1) Is oxygen influence less critical after carbing? Not sure I understand why it's better for aging if it's carbonated versus uncarbed.
2) Does carbing affect the aging at all? I've always aged uncarbed
3) Slightly off topic, but... for my current brew (Saison) I was thinking of re-pitching when I transfer into the keg. Something I haven't done before. I'm using dregs that I had built up from a bottle of St. Bernardus. Would this effectively serve the purpose of carbonation?

Thanks in advance!

1) Not that I know of
2) Not that I know of
3) No. You need to add sugar for the yeast to eat in order to naturally carbonate. Repitching is rarely required to carbonate, as there should still be plenty of yeast in suspension to get the job done (unless you've aged the beer for many months). If you decide to naturally carbonate in the keg, you'll need to do so at temps warm enough for the yeast to be active, just like when bottle conditioning.

IMO it's better to carbonate prior to aging simply to reduce the risk of losing your seal on the keg due to temperature fluctuations. If the temp drops significantly and there's no carbonation to create positive pressure in the keg, it could actually create a vacuum and any loss in seal would pull in ambient air (along with potential nasty bacteria or wild yeast).

 

[ImNewToBrew]

As far as I know and IME carbonating doesn't affect the aging process either way, though temp will so if you are carbing it cold that will slow down the aging. As far as why to carb first I'm pretty sure we were all talking about keeping the keg sealed, at least I was. If the keg is fully carbed it will not absorb any more CO2 in the headspace and will have plenty of pressure to stay sealed. Not quite sure I understand your last question, you still need to add priming sugar if you are naturally carbing. Why are you adding more yeast, did you age it a really long time or something?

I really just wanted to add some yeast from dregs I built up, similar to bottle conditioning I thought. I was going to pull it out of primary 3-5 points early and then add some sugar and yeast. It's a different strain than I used for primary. I haven't done this before but wanted to try. Thoughts?

 

[chickypad]

You shouldn't need to add additional yeast, there should be plenty in the beer. I don't know about kegging it before it's finished. You don't need much priming sugar for a full keg due to the relatively decreased headspace, it comes out to like 2.5 oz for the whole batch. That's less than 2 gravity pts I think, not sure how you would time that or know exactly where the beer will finish. I would honestly just let it ferment out then add your known amount of sugar to the keg.

 

[ImNewToBrew]

You shouldn't need to add additional yeast, there should be plenty in the beer. I don't know about kegging it before it's finished. You don't need much priming sugar for a full keg due to the relatively decreased headspace, it comes out to like 2.5 oz for the whole batch. That's less than 2 gravity pts I think, not sure how you would time that or know exactly where the beer will finish. I would honestly just let it ferment out then add your known amount of sugar to the keg.

The intention of adding the second yeast is impart more subtle flavors by utilizing a different strain of yeast than used in primary. I got the idea from reading Phil Markowski's book entitled 'Farmhouse Ales'. I wasn't originally going to use this secondary addition as kegging stage. I was originally going to transfer to secondary with a few points left, pitch the other yeast and let it finish to FG then transfer to the Keg to age. My understanding that this practice is not uncommon for traditional farmhouse ales in Belgium. Then the carbing in the keg came idea came along and I thought I could kill 2 birds with one stone. But I might just go back to my original idea and add the second yeast strain in the secondary and age it for a few weeks there, then transfer to the keg to finish off aging at which point I will carb before aging based on this discussion.

 

[philosofool]

If you add a new strain to the beer at packaging, be aware that it may ferment sugars that the original strain was unable to ferment. In that condition, I would be cautious about priming sugar amounts to avoid over carbing.

 

[ImNewToBrew]

If you add a new strain to the beer at packaging, be aware that it may ferment sugars that the original strain was unable to ferment. In that condition, I would be cautious about priming sugar amounts to avoid over carbing.

Great point. Thanks!

 

[henchman24]

I've done some brett beers in the past where I transferred the 'finished' beer to a corny, pitched the brett in the keg, and put some CO2 on it to seal the lid. I built a spunding valve that will release pressure over a certain amount. I started at 7psi and after a while (depending on the strain) would go up to 15.

It does seem to mute the brett flavors a bit when under pressure compared to them aging in a carboy.

If you were going to pitch another yeast, I'd build a spunding valve to make sure it doesn't go too far.

 

[Firewalker11]

I've done some brett beers in the past where I transferred the 'finished' beer to a corny, pitched the brett in the keg, and put some CO2 on it to seal the lid. I built a spunding valve that will release pressure over a certain amount. I started at 7psi and after a while (depending on the strain) would go up to 15.

It does seem to mute the brett flavors a bit when under pressure compared to them aging in a carboy.

If you were going to pitch another yeast, I'd build a spunding valve to make sure it doesn't go too far.

This is how I store all of my kegs, the spunding valve tells me at a glance what the pressure in the keg is and automatically releases excess pressure. I have a Porter and Imperial Irish Red aging with spunding valves on them right now.

 

[ImNewToBrew]

Question for those who carb in keg with priming sugar. I gelatin most of my beers since I've been kegging. Does this effect the ability to prime with sugar in the keg? I didn't use gelatin when I was bottling so I can't compare.

 

[Gavin C]

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