Aging beer: Facts, myths, and discussion

[Onkel_Udo]

I'm sure someone has hit on this but gelatin as a fining agent is absolutely amazing, however the recommended tsp per 5 gallon is not helpful to hard yeasts like US-04 (my IPA did clear but took 5 days).

The more you use the harder it will be to clean but it's worth it. I use a pure sanke system and I can manage

I hope you meant US-05 and not S-04. S-04 drop like a rock and stays there...US-05 not so much.

 

[RevKev]

I hope you meant US-05 and not S-04. S-04 drop like a rock and stays there...US-05 not so much.

Thank you.. I'm not always the most sober and these numbers are so close together
😉

 

[mwesson88]

One reason Budweiser is able to get beer out so fast is they ferment at 120°f under 7 atmospheres.

 

[torilen]

I just got around to reading the first page of this thread...when I posted last time, I had skimmed through some of the later comments.

I find it quite hilarious that anyone would compare homebrewing to Budweiser. If Bud - any version of Bud - is the goal you're pitting yourself against...that's just sad. Sorry if that hurts feelings...but that is some horrible beer to compare yourself to.

That said - Since my last post...I've learned some things. Ginger beer - technically I still stand by what I said before. My ginger beer can go from ferment to drinkable, no problem. Can it use some aging? We'll see. I actually have about a 1/2 gallon put away. It fermented for a good 7-10 days, then sat in the secondary for about five or six days, then continued to sit with some toasted oak chips for about 7 or 10 days. Then I bottled it. It's been bottled for about a week. It was quite strong, so I'm thinking aging will do it some good...allow that alcohol to cool off some. I have some wines from back in March or April that I gave a taste of about three weeks ago. They were amazing. Of course, wine is quite different than beer. I'm just now getting around to making my first batch of beer today. From what I've learned...what Yuri said on the first page is absolutely right.

Taste your brew. If it is good, it is ready. It seems to be that simple.

 

[jwalker1140]

I find it quite hilarious that anyone would compare homebrewing to Budweiser. If Bud - any version of Bud - is the goal you're pitting yourself against...that's just sad. Sorry if that hurts feelings...but that is some horrible beer to compare yourself to.

I think you're confusing style of beer with mastery of craft. You indicate you haven't even brewed a batch of beer yet. I'd suggest you hold back on your criticism until you try to brew a lager that's as perfectly clean as a Bud, and then try to do it exactly the same over and over again. Then maybe you'll understand why even the very best homebrewers veiw Bud as a top benchmark against which to measure their skill.

 

[8rnw8]

I've always heard bud is one of the hardest things to brew. There is so little going on in the beer that even tiny off flavors stand out.

 

[mwesson88]

The comparison to Bud is not because I want my beer to taste like that crap. I was merely explaining that mass commercial beer manufacturers cheat in the process. Budweiser does not age their beers. I know this because, well, you can contact Bill Ross at Yellow House Canyon Brew Works in Lubbock, Texas.
At any rate................ I ferment all my beers in primary for 4 weeks. I find it a good thing for gravity, especially with the Belgian yeasts. I usually age in secondary for about........... well just til I get motivated to bottle it. No rhyme or reason behind it. I get lazy at times. I brew every week. I do no not drink store bought anymore. I mash from grains only with exception to making candy syrup for some of the Belgians. Mostly I use M27 from Mangrove Jack and save my yeast until abot 3rd, no more than 4th generation. I have gotten it down to a pretty good science.
So for aging? As long as you want.

 

[torilen]

jwalker - again...sorry it I am hurting feelings...and yes, I know I really have no business criticizing when I am just now brewing my first actual beer. But honestly...Bud taste like crap. Anyone who has tasted real beer will say that. Clean tasting/looking? I don't know if I would agree with that...it has nothing in it to taste, as far as I can tell. If people want to compare to something - look to Blue Moon, Sam Adams, Yuengling, Sierra Nevada, Dogfish Head...anything like that. I understand most of these might be considered closer to the microbrewery level - but I think they are available across the entire U.S., yes?

And honestly - just because I haven't brew a beer fully yet, that does not necessarily mean I cannot comment and/or criticize a poor tasting beer. People who haven't written or directed a movie can tell when a movie sucks. People who haven't written a novel can tell when a book sucks. Just because someone doesn't have a painting in a museum doesn't mean they don't get to criticize art. Right?

 

[jwalker1140]

Torilen, you're not hurting my feelings at all because I think we're still talking about two different things: your personal hatred for Bud (and maybe the style in general) vs. the reason why some brewers nonetheless try to brew the style.

We get it, you don't like Bud. And that's fine. But it is just a subjective opinion (and one that I don't necessarily disagree with).

But like it or not, Bud is probably the most recognizable example of the American Lager style category, which is one of the hardest styles to brew well. That's not subjective.

And I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be able to criticize a beer because you don't have a bunch of batches under your belt. I'm simply suggesting that once you've been at it for a while and have more firsthand experience with how hard it is to brew a truly exceptional beer (especially a super clean lager), you might be less apt to start spouting criticisms at the notion of someone trying to brew something like a Bud. Because like it or not, trying to brew an American Lager takes some cojones. Otherwise, you just come off sounding like a noob, or worse. Sorry if I am hurting feelings.

 

[November]

One reason Budweiser is able to get beer out so fast is they ferment at 120°f under 7 atmospheres.

Do you have a source for those numbers? I had heard that some of the BMC's ferment warm but both of those seem especially high. If my math is right, 7 atm is up around 100 psi.

 

[PaulSh]

I really appreciate this post. I surprisingly learned a lot that I didn't know already .

 

[BremBeer]

This is great. Thanks

 

[anotherbeerplease]

I've been drinking my IPA's within a week of brewing. That includes brewing, fermenting, dry hopping, cold crashing, and force carbonating. There's not much to it, just move on to the next step asap as soon as the previous step is done.

I've also been drinking IPAs, lagers, stouts, etc 6+ months after brewing and they definitely taste more watery, less bitter, more mellow, less aromatic, easier drinking, smoother, etc etc. Whether or not that is a good thing depends on the style. IPAs probably not so much, imperial stouts yes.

So when it comes to aging beer my vote falls along the lines of many, age beers that historically "should" be aged, and enjoy fresh the IPAs.

To throw a wrench in the works I plan to soon brew an 18+% crazy high abv IPA, with nearly a full pound of hops throughout the process. I expect to be able to enjoy it fresh as well as enjoy it as it ages, we will see how the year affect this brew.

 

[ChemistBrewer]

I agree with all that you said.

Pitching more than enough yeast and paying attention to fermentation temp has helped my beers tremendously. I also started using gelatin to clear my beer. It seems to cut the conditioning time way down.

 

[corkybstewart]

My brewing partner and I brewed 10 gallons of 12.5% imperial stout, he bottled his half and I kegged mine. We started drinking his bottles within 2 weeks and finished them before we started on my keg. There was no flavor advantage in having waited 6 months for my beer to age, it tasted just like his bottles had.

 

[seatazzz]

I'm going to drop my two cents here as well. I'm drinking an American strong that was in primary for 8 days, cold crashed in the keg, and force carbed for 2 days. It's beautiful. And when I say Strong, I mean STRONG....OG was at 1.089 and it came down to 1.012 for an ABV of 10.1%. No off flavors, mild fusels that are fading, huge malt flavor with just enough hops and just about perfect to me. If your process is good, and you pitch plenty of healthy yeast, in my opinion there's no reason to go beyond 10 days in primary as long as it tastes good. I still ferment in plastic buckets with spigots, and take a taste after the krausen drops to make sure it's going where I want it to. When it's done, it's done. I have to admit, I'm afraid to let my beer go beyond 11 days for fear of nasty stuff happening. Once it's crashed and carbed, if it tastes good I'm going to drink it. I've only ever aged one beer and that was for a month until I took it to my daughter's wedding...during which time I annihilated its brother keg because it tasted too good.

 

[divrack]

What? Blasphemy and sacrilege! We all know that a good bet takes a minimum of three months of gentle whispered incantations with the burning of candles and incense, the performing of magical rites and the weaving of strange symbols and esoterical gestures in the air above the fermenting chamber.
And that's just for an average beer. Most of the prize winning home Brewers will perform a daily sacrifice of at least one virgin child three goats and a chicken whilst whispering the sacred screed of the holy venerated father, John Palmer, and the sacred text how to brew.
And yay, we pray, let the dreaded autolysis not visit us in this hour of darkness, rack often and constantly least this evil visit us in our pure and righteous home

 

[RevKev]

I brewed a IS about 13%+ ended up about 1.05, was great fresh but that was October '16, just kegged 2gal rye soaked oak aged last week.

Age helps. So. Much.

 

[seatazzz]

What? Blasphemy and sacrilege! We all know that a good bet takes a minimum of three months of gentle whispered incantations with the burning of candles and incense, the performing of magical rites and the weaving of strange symbols and esoterical gestures in the air above the fermenting chamber.
And that's just for an average beer. Most of the prize winning home Brewers will perform a daily sacrifice of at least one virgin child three goats and a chicken whilst whispering the sacred screed of the holy venerated father, John Palmer, and the sacred text how to brew.
And yay, we pray, let the dreaded autolysis not visit us in this hour of darkness, rack often and constantly least this evil visit us in our pure and righteous home

OMG !!! PRICELESS!!!

 

[C-Rider]

I am a citizen of Earth.

?

 

[C-Rider]

My brewing partner and I brewed 10 gallons of 12.5% imperial stout, he bottled his half and I kegged mine. We started drinking his bottles within 2 weeks and finished them before we started on my keg. There was no flavor advantage in having waited 6 months for my beer to age, it tasted just like his bottles had.

In late 2015 I brewed an 11% Imperial Stout..In 2016 it took a 2nd place in a local contest and the alcohol taste was strong. A year later in 2017 it took a first place the alcohol bite was gone. I'm aging another batch now for 1 year maybe 2.

 

[corkybstewart]

In late 2015 I brewed an 11% Imperial Stout..In 2016 it took a 2nd place in a local contest and the alcohol taste was strong. A year later in 2017 it took a first place the alcohol bite was gone. I'm aging another batch now for 1 year maybe 2.

I brewed one once that had a strong fusel alcohol bite when it reached FG. I left in primary another 2 weeks and the bite was gone. I would never say that aging can't be beneficial, I just don't think it's a necessity.

 

[cmac62]

Good thread! I often have two or three kegs waiting for tap space, so I keep those waiting in the lager fidge. Everything gets to lager for a few weeks at least. I don't drink fast enough to go through the beer I make. Also, If I make anything over 8% I will put that in bottles and let it sit for awhile to carb and age. It works for me.

 

[BrewKnob]

I don't want to brew beer like Budweiser.

Recently I had 2 houseguests suffering the divorce blues...2 years they drank me dry. I had 2 gallons of Kolsch I squirreled away...after 7 months hidden cold conditioning on low CO2 I tapped it.

It was fantastic.

Take your time. Do it right...most of these shortcuts make faster beer...not better beer.

 

[corkybstewart]

The problem with declaring our homebrew to be better once it's aged is that there is no objective way to know how the flavors have changed. Our own taste bud react differently over time. My wife went from thinking Yuengling was great to drinking Green Flash Double IPA in a matter of weeks After that Yuengling tasted awful to her-she changed, not the beer.
We may think we remember what it tasted like a year ago but we really can't. If we could somehow preserve the unaged beer to compare it with the aged version all our questions would be answered, but without some sort of time machine that's not gonna happen.
Aging is probably good for a few very strong beers, or maybe beers that are harsh due to over hopping, but, just like wine, I would bet 95% of our beers do not improve with age.

 

[corkybstewart]

I don't want to brew beer like Budweiser.

Recently I had 2 houseguests suffering the divorce blues...2 years they drank me dry. I had 2 gallons of Kolsch I squirreled away...after 7 months hidden cold conditioning on low CO2 I tapped it.

It was fantastic.

Take your time. Do it right...most of these shortcuts make faster beer...not better beer.

Was it not good before? That's the real question, not was it fantastic after months of lagering. I brewed a pale ale that was awful, I put it in the carbonating fridge and forgot about it for over a year, by then it was fantastic. But that was only because the yeast had finally settled out, it still tasted like the beer I planned to drink, not something altered by time. I bet if I had tasted it a month after I put it in the fridge it would have tasted just as good. That's lagering, not aging.

 

[BrewKnob]

It was fine before. But it was fantastic after 7 months. Clarity perfect. Head retention very good. Flavor was excellent. Remember, I had helped consume 17 gallons 4 months before.

This was not an unfamiliar beer to me.

Also I've been brewing since 1995 so its not my first rodeo.

Enclosed is a pic.

Was it not good before? That's the real question, not was it fantastic after months of lagering. I brewed a pale ale that was awful, I put it in the carbonating fridge and forgot about it for over a year, by then it was fantastic. But that was only because the yeast had finally settled out, it still tasted like the beer I planned to drink, not something altered by time. I bet if I had tasted it a month after I put it in the fridge it would have tasted just as good. That's lagering, not aging.

 

[corkybstewart]

Also I've been brewing since 1995 so its not my first rodeo.

Enclosed is a pic.

So you're new to the hobby? just kidding, I started in 92 and have had some notable successes, and spectacular failures. I distinguish between cold conditioning/lagering and aging. I'm aging 10 gallons of vinegar(5 red wine, 5 apple cider) at ambient temp in my beer room, but I have 10 gallons of maibock lagering in the fridge. The vinegar is 3 years old, the maibock is 3 weeks old, and the process they are going through are very different. Neither is ready to be consumed at their peak, but both certainly could be. Cold conditioning brings most(not all) biochemical processes to a near halt whereas aging at room temp allows a lot more reaction between critters and chemicals.

 

[C-Rider]

The problem with declaring our homebrew to be better once it's aged is that there is no objective way to know how the flavors have changed. Our own taste bud react differently over time. My wife went from thinking Yuengling was great to drinking Green Flash Double IPA in a matter of weeks After that Yuengling tasted awful to her-she changed, not the beer.
We may think we remember what it tasted like a year ago but we really can't. If we could somehow preserve the unaged beer to compare it with the aged version all our questions would be answered, but without some sort of time machine that's not gonna happen.
Aging is probably good for a few very strong beers, or maybe beers that are harsh due to over hopping, but, just like wine, I would bet 95% of our beers do not improve with age.

I sent the same beer an Imperial Stout to a contest two years in a row. The first year it took 2nd Place. The same beer aged a year in bottles took first place the next year. So you are correct that our taste buds change but the written memory of the judges is there in black and white. Ok I agree it wasn't the same judges and their taste buds are different. LOL

BTW I once tried a Yuengling draft and couldn't get past the first sip.

 

[danielthemaniel]

A few points from my experience which isn't as much as many (brewing since 2012).

1. If you pitch the correct amount of yeast, which includes not overpitching, you will be rewarded by your beer. Always use a calculator!

2. Different styles and different yeast strains peak at different points. Dont make a blanket time frame for all your beers. Do your research and then test your results. Take notes for the next time you make that recipe again!

3. Fermentation control will help the flavor of your beer both by increasing the pleasant flavors from your yeast and limiting the unpleasant flavors. Happy yeast work harder and in return you get a beer ready to drink sooner.

Hope this helps!