advice on designing all grain recipes

[apshaffer]

I've been all grain brewing for a few years. Started out using recipes found here and there, but for the past several batches I've been using Beersmith to create my own recipes. I've been messing around with APA's...tweaking the grain bill or hops (not both) a little each time and keeping detailed notes. My basic grain bill is...8-9# 2 row, 1-2# Vienna, .5-1# crystal, plus .5# assorted specialty grains. I've tried victory, flaked barley, swapped the Vienna for Munich, etc. I've also changed up the hops/hop timing. Only cascade, cascade + centennial, cascade + northern brewer. I've been keeping with Nottingham yeast for a control.

I was curious as to how other folks go about designing their all grain recipes. Is it trail and error? Is ~5% specialty grain enough to taste specialty grain? I've been focusing on the grain bill lately...should I put more focus on the hops?

Each recipe I've designed has come out pretty good, different, but quite drinkable. I'm starting to understand what beersmith's bitterness ratio equates to in taste. It seems like the trail and error method is a shot in the dark though. I'm not knowledgeable enough foresee how changes to a recipe will affect the taste. I guess my goal is to make a unique, tasty, well balanced APA, and then move on to a different style.

Is there any good information out there on designing recipes? I've thought about Ray Daniels' book. Is this the type on info covered in it? I have a pretty good grasp on how a pale ale recipe differs from an amber. I'm more interested in how small changes within a recipe will change the final product.

Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Clonefarmer]

Getting a feel for the individual ingredients helped me a great deal. Eating a few grains of the malts used in the recipe. Smelling each of the hops. The more you know what the ingredients add the better you can judge how they will effect the beer.

Recipe formulation does tend to be trial and error, but you can cut down the error part by knowing more about what your adding.

 

[JonK331]

Designing Great Beers by Daniels will take you from trial and error to deliberate precision. The book give basic guidelines while still leaving room for improvisation. It is a bit textbook like but will make designing recipes from scratch like second nature for you. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!

 

[weirdboy]

What, you haven't messed with mash temperatures yet?

Designing Great Beers is a good book, but it's not going to answer this question. It will give you guidelines and sort of a "system" for doing this, but unless you understand the physical qualitative properties of all the ingredients they are just words on a page IMO.

I think a lot of it is trial and error, but also what you are doing is a good start. Making something like a SMASH or DMASH. I made that last one up, but what I mean is just varying one grain (usually a specialty malt, but doesn't have to be at all--e.g. try rye in a pale ale) in both type and quantity to get an understanding of how it affects the beer. And more importantly IMO is if you can do several side-by-side comparisons it will really help you pick out those qualities and understand how they interact. Also as stated above, you can go to an LHBS and try out the different malts. Like literally put a few in your mouth and smell/taste them. It really helps.

To me it's the same as creating a recipe for food. You have to understand the ingredients, how different preparation methods affect the flavor and texture, and how varying the quantity of one ingredient affects the overall flavor. Once I have a grasp of those factors then it sorta coalesces in my brain.

Then once I have a general understanding of that, I write out a recipe with a particular goal in mind and try it out. It's not always going to taste like what I intend, but I can make adjustments and fine-tune the recipe until it fits my goals.

 

[apshaffer]

I never thought about eating a few grains.

I only change one ingredient at a time and keep everything else the same...other ingredients, yeast, mash temp/time, water, etc (try to at least). I have a science background, and tend to go about brewing in the same way as any experiment. Variable, controls and lots of notes.

I guess I am looking for some good info about ingredients. How many different hops are described as "citrusy" or "spicy"? Lots. That doesn't tell me much.

 

[Clonefarmer]

I never thought about eating a few grains.

I only change one ingredient at a time and keep everything else the same...other ingredients, yeast, mash temp/time, water, etc (try to at least). I have a science background, and tend to go about brewing in the same way as any experiment. Variable, controls and lots of notes.

I guess I am looking for some good info about ingredients. How many different hops are described as "citrusy" or "spicy"? Lots. That doesn't tell me much.

Try some of the single hop beers that are avaiable. Mikkellar has a great line of single hop IPA's.

 

[weirdboy]

Yeah hops if you can smell them individually it helps a lot. A bit harder to do at the LHBS though since they tend to be packaged in sealed containers and refrigerated.

I agree that the descriptions you see for most hops are pretty much useless for determining how it will work in a recipe.

 

[rjwhite41]

I never thought about eating a few grains.

I only change one ingredient at a time and keep everything else the same...other ingredients, yeast, mash temp/time, water, etc (try to at least). I have a science background, and tend to go about brewing in the same way as any experiment. Variable, controls and lots of notes.

I guess I am looking for some good info about ingredients. How many different hops are described as "citrusy" or "spicy"? Lots. That doesn't tell me much.

There is a section in Ray Daniels book about hops and the chemical compounds they are comprised of and some basic parameters for creating recipes for many beer styles. For a science mind, I think you would enjoy it and gain more insight into various ingredients quicker than you currently are. Another thing I always do is research the history of each particular style that I brew. I'm a brew history dork but it helps me out.

 

[apshaffer]

I think my LHBS has Daniels book. I think I'll pick it up.

Single hop beers...that's a great idea. I've made a few myself, but didn't know anyone was doing that type of thing commercially. Anyone know of any others besides Mikkellar? I've never seen those around. I'm fortunate enough to have a great global beer store here in Olympia, WA. I'll ask them if they can get Mikkellar or any others. I know Laurelwood Brewery in Portland, OR was doing some single hop red ales, but I'm not sure if they do that anymore.

Does anyone have an opinion on the amount of specialty grain to use to get a good idea of their qualities? I've been shooting for 5%. Some of them say use up to 20%. But, that seems like overkill.

Thanks for all the responses.

 

[Clonefarmer]

Single hop beers...that's a great idea. I've made a few myself, but didn't know anyone was doing that type of thing commercially. Anyone know of any others besides Mikkellar? I've never seen those around. I'm fortunate enough to have a great global beer store here in Olympia, WA. I'll ask them if they can get Mikkellar or any others. I know Laurelwood Brewery in Portland, OR was doing some single hop red ales, but I'm not sure if they do that anymore.

Weyerbacher has a Double Simcoe IPA
That's the only other one I can think of right off hand.

 

[RosewaterFoundation]

Does anyone have an opinion on the amount of specialty grain to use to get a good idea of their qualities? I've been shooting for 5%. Some of them say use up to 20%. But, that seems like overkill.

Thanks for all the responses.

I've been getting good results keeping specialty grain at 10% and under. I've used a lot more to varying degrees of success (one of the best brews I have is around 20% specialty...all depends on the style). I'm also finding, big surprise, that simplicity and patience (i.e. letting it sit longer to let the real malt characteristic come out) tend to pay off.

 

[Boy]

According to the website Blonde Bombshell from Cascade Lakes Brewery in is a SMaSH. 2-row and Liberty. Really good session beer