Advice on connectors/connections

[passedpawn]

I knew I wasn't crazy. Not that this proves that ... You're sane, right?

I have no idea. History will judge, and presently it's too polite to comment.

 

[Bobby_M]

@bobby_m i couldn't make my order until today, I had the pump kit and $237 worth of items in the cart but now your tubing is out of stock. Will you have it again very soon? I don't want to make 2 orders on top of missing your 10% off.

it was just an online inventory error, I have a few hundred more feet of tubing in stock and more on the way. Fixed.

 

[Hello]

it was just an online inventory error, I have a few hundred more feet of tubing in stock and more on the way. Fixed.

Thanks. Do you know if you're going to have a sale soon? It'd be nice to save a few bucks off my large order.

 

[brick_haus]

Ha- that ball valve has been there since about 2007. It's fine. I never close it, of course- but it has never caused a problem. I was going to leave it in place, because I'm more worried about cracking something when trying to get it off! But I'll remove it, or at least try to, when I put the new parts on.

It's my "water" pump. I have one pump for the HLT/water side only. The bottom draining HLT feeds right into it- it's never once cavitated on me. The other pump, the wort pump, always has issues with priming and stuff. A couple of times it's even squealed when it suddenly had a cavitation issue. But never the pump with the ball valve on the "in" side!

OK, that's two that say that thy have no problems with their pumps after many uses with valve on upstream side. I guess I'm a little sensitive about this issue, I work in the oil business, and one leaking seal (usually caused from cavitation) can cause heads to roll...

I will withdraw my advice.

 

[dmcman73]

OK, that's two that say that thy have no problems with their pumps after many uses with valve on upstream side. I guess I'm a little sensitive about this issue, I work in the oil business, and one leaking seal (usually caused from cavitation) can cause heads to roll...

I will withdraw my advice.

As long as there is fluid in the pump head while it turning, it should be fine. If the valve is closed or no fluid is left to pump and you leave it running, it will cause premature wear on the head or even cause the impeller to over heat.

 

[Yooper]

As long as there is fluid in the pump head while it turning, it should be fine. If the valve is closed or no fluid is left to pump and you leave it running, it will cause premature wear on the head or even cause the impeller to over heat.

Absolutely! But that is true whether there is an open ball valve there or not. It serves no purpose at all- as I've never once closed it- but it hasn't been an issue at all either. Cavitation occurs when the flow is impeded or stopped, or when the pump loses prime or isn't primed. My open ball valve hasn't created a flow restriction.

 

[passedpawn]

Absolutely! But that is true whether there is an open ball valve there or not. It serves no purpose at all- as I've never once closed it- but it hasn't been an issue at all either. Cavitation occurs when the flow is impeded or stopped, or when the pump loses prime or isn't primed. My open ball valve hasn't created a flow restriction.

Don't sweat using that valve. I regulate the flow with that valve, and occasionally stop flow altogether. My pump may hate me, but it keeps working nonetheless.

 

[Yooper]

Don't sweat using that valve. I regulate the flow with that valve, and occasionally stop flow altogether. My pump may hate me, but it keeps working nonetheless.

I just don't have the need to use it. The funny thing is that pump is older than the one that gives me fits, and it's the one with the ball valve on the "in". I bought it used in 2007(?).

When I get my new stuff from Bobby, I will see if I want to take it off or not. I suspect that it's going to be easier to just put the new camlock fittings on it, and I may just do that. I could take it off, if that's not too much of a pain, and save the ball valve for a future use. I'll see when I start taking it apart, maybe tomorrow.

I'm probably one of the few women in my town with a supply of extra ball valves, clamps, barbs, copper tubing parts, and compression fittings.

 

[dmcman73]

I'm probably one of the few women in my town with a supply of extra ball valves, clamps, barbs, copper tubing parts, and compression fittings.

Ummmm......never mind.

Anyway, back on topic. Just remove the valve and put it on the output side, this is the proper way. The impellers are magnetic driven, they aren't attached directly to the motor so restricting it on the output side is what is recommended.

You're pulling it all apart anyway to install new connectors anyway, what's one more thing to unscrew.

 

[Yooper]

Ummmm......never mind.

Anyway, back on topic. Just remove the valve and put it on the output side, this is the proper way. The impellers are magnetic driven, they aren't attached directly to the motor so restricting it on the output side is what is recommended.

You're pulling it all apart anyway to install new connectors anyway, what's one more thing to unscrew.

Yes, I just took them off and it was fine. Now, for putting the whole thing back together- that's going to be the hard part.

 

[Yooper]

I use a ton of those camlocks. They become MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better if you remove the rings from the wings. OMG those rings drove me crazy.

I guess if you have a fixed system and you CIP you don't remove hoses much, you can use the rings to tie the connection down, but I remove them all the time. Did I mention I hated those rings?

Can you explain that again? Maybe, type more slowly so I can understand?

The rings also have pins on cotter pins on them- what are those for? So take off the rings completely? What are they there for, then?

Also, do they loosen up a bit after use? I just got the box, and already have an injured (skinless) thumb from earlier today (long story), and I found that I needed both hands and a flat surface to close those darn things on each other! Please tell me that I'm not crazy, and I'm missing the trick to it!

edit- the next couple were easier. The first one I tried was the tough one.

 

[passedpawn]

Can you explain that again? Maybe, type more slowly so I can understand?

The rings also have pins on cotter pins on them- what are those for? So take off the rings completely? What are they there for, then?

Also, do they loosen up a bit after use? I just got the box, and already have an injured (skinless) thumb from earlier today (long story), and I found that I needed both hands and a flat surface to close those darn things on each other! Please tell me that I'm not crazy, and I'm missing the trick to it!

edit- the next couple were easier. The first one I tried was the tough one.

They don't loosen up over time. If it's a PITA to close now, it will be the same a year from now. Seems I've seen guys around here sand them or do something else to loosen them up, but can't remember.

BUT, I rarely close both sides, and probably never close both sides fully. I think someone on this forum actually removed one wing from each camlock, just to get it out of the way. The silicone washer in there seals really well against the male nipple, and it will remain pliable forever it seems. Do some test runs with water to become comfortable with them and how well they seal.

QD's are easier to use, but they caused me many problems with blockages due to their small orifices. The brass QDs become unusable after a couple of years when the bearings and springs start to degrade. The SS ones might be better, but they were $$ compared to these camlocks, plus I'd have to get large ones to match the ID of these camlocks, which made them $$$.

The rings/cotter pins are not useful for me. I have an electric system (you do too), so I don't have to worry about flames licking up the sides of my keggle and heating my camlocks. They can get pretty hot, but not instant skin blisters like the propane brewers can get. To remove those pins, use a slotted screwdriver and work it through the ring.

I'm guessing the rings are there for industrial settings where you might want to run a nylon tie wrap through them and cinch those wings down onto the tubing, making sure it doesn't let go if an untucked shirt or cow or whoknowswhat brushes against them.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

A dab of keg lube, on the "cams" of camlocks, will help them close easier.

They get easier to cycle with use.


Edit: I see above, that they don't loosen up with use, but that's not been my experience.
They will always have a "positive" lock feel to them, but they will get easier if you cycle them.

Lube them, and do it before you install them, especially if you have a "dummy" piece of pipe you can screw the to, ( hand tight), and cycle away.

You can remove the rings, and slip a small piece of tubing over the "wings", to give you more leverage, less skinned knuckles!

 

[passedpawn]

A dab of keg lube, on the "cams" of camlocks, will help them close easier.

They get easier to cycle with use.

Thanks, I think I'll try that

 

[eko]

The rings also have pins on cotter pins on them- what are those for? So take off the rings completely? What are they there for, then?

The pins can be used to lock the arms/wings so they can't be closed (if open), or can't be opened (if closed). I've never come across a time when I would want to lock them in place. The rings - I'd sort of assumed they were there to hold the pins so you wouldn't lose them. But I've had pins slide off the rings so they don't always work very well for that purpose. However, some in this thread have said they like to use the rings to pull the cams open. Gives them more leverage. I find the rings tend to get in the way when I'm closing a cam and prefer to remove them, and the pins, and set them aside in my pile of junk I mean extra parts.

 

[PlexVector]

The rings help pull the cam levers, and the cotter pins slide into a hole at the closed cam end to keep it locked. I throw the pins in a box, and after reading this thread may do the same with those pesky rings.

I love my cams. Used big ones on the farm back as a kid. The local brew store carries clear silicone replacement gaskets that are a little softer than the black gaskets that come in the female camlocks. I replace all mine with the silicone ones right away. I had always used QDs on my yard hoses for the last 20 years and they are a PITA. Thinking about going all cam on those too.

 

[dmcman73]

Yes, I just took them off and it was fine. Now, for putting the whole thing back together- that's going to be the hard part.

Not that difficult. Make sure you wrap all male threads with 3 wraps of blue teflon (it's a thicker brand sold at home depot called blue monster) or 5 wraps of white teflon. Make sure you wrap in a clockwise rotation (if you were looking from above the thread) and take care not to allow the teflon to overlap the opening of the fitting in any way. Tighten the fittings together but be sure not to over tighten . Hand tighten and then use a wrench to tighten another half turn or so.

 

[Yooper]

The rings help pull the cam levers, and the cotter pins slide into a hole at the closed cam end to keep it locked. I throw the pins in a box, and after reading this thread may do the same with those pesky rings.

I love my cams. Used big ones on the farm back as a kid. The local brew store carries clear silicone replacement gaskets that are a little softer than the black gaskets that come in the female camlocks. I replace all mine with the silicone ones right away. I had always used QDs on my yard hoses for the last 20 years and they are a PITA. Thinking about going all cam on those too.

The ones from Bobby_M came with the silicone gaskets. Very nice!

Not that difficult. Make sure you wrap all male threads with 3 wraps of blue teflon (it's a thicker brand sold at home depot called blue monster) or 5 wraps of white teflon. Make sure you wrap in a clockwise rotation (if you were looking from above the thread) and take care not to allow the teflon to overlap the opening of the fitting in any way. Tighten the fittings together but be sure not to over tighten . Hand tighten and then use a wrench to tighten another half turn or so.

Great- thank you! I have a ton of white teflon tape, so I'll be using that.

I put new compression fittings on my CFC today, and will put the rest together tomorrow. I love the keg lube tip- I'll try that now while I'm messing around with them.

Of course, I didn't diagram what I was thinking, and I'm trying to remember where I was thinking of putting the three elbows.

 

[Ben58]

Remember Yoop, when putting your fittings on, you don't have to tighten them up like a fanatic. The pumps in our system are low pressure and you don't need to hurt them or yourself. ( Saying to the lady holding a whip...)

 

[dmcman73]

Remember Yoop, when putting your fittings on, you don't have to tighten them up like a fanatic. The pumps in our system are low pressure and you don't need to hurt them or yourself. ( Saying to the lady holding a whip...)

Low pressure, yes but high temps cause expansion. That's why when you leak test you should leak test with the same temp of the fluid you'll be working with.

 

[Yooper]

Low pressure, yes but high temps cause expansion. That's why when you leak test you should leak test with the same temp of the fluid you'll be working with.

Good point- it never even occurred to me! I was going to just test it with cold water, in case it leaks. I've been burned before. Literally, and figuratively!

But I'll start with cold to get the 'big leaks' and then heat the HLT or BK and check the chiller and other fittings at that time as well.

I really appreciate all the tips! You guys are awesome.

Oh, and you owe me another $385 for feeding my obsession. I'm keeping track. You guys are responsible for a tad over $5800 for my system. Without your goading, er, support - I would have a bucket and a pot and maybe a cooler.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Oh, and you owe me another $385 for feeding my obsession. I'm keeping track. You guys are responsible for a tad over $5800 for my system. Without your goading, er, support - I would have a bucket and a pot and maybe a cooler.

Can I get in one this payback? I was basically content with a pot, bucket and cooler! Now its a sublime monster that keeps growing...

 

[estricklin]

Good point- it never even occurred to me! I was going to just test it with cold water, in case it leaks. I've been burned before. Literally, and figuratively!

But I'll start with cold to get the 'big leaks' and then heat the HLT or BK and check the chiller and other fittings at that time as well.

I really appreciate all the tips! You guys are awesome.

Oh, and you owe me another $385 for feeding my obsession. I'm keeping track. You guys are responsible for a tad over $5800 for my system. Without your goading, er, support - I would have a bucket and a pot and maybe a cooler.

The roughneck would like to see pictures of BEER related camlocks once installed if possible.

 

[Yooper]

The roughneck would like to see pictures of BEER related camlocks once installed if possible.

I have about 75% of the males installed. Then, I ran out of teflon tape. I swear I had another roll- but that's for tomorrow.

The hard part is standing in front of the sculpture muttering, "Where did I want those elbows?" So any of YOU guys who have elbows in the systems are urged to tell me what the heck I'm doing here!

 

[passedpawn]

No elbows on mine. Can't imagine where I'd use them, but everybody likes their system a little different.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I don't use elbows on mine either... But then, I am all Thumbs!

 

[BeardedBrews]

I have seen folks using elbows on the end of the tubing that attaches to the vessel drain. This takes the strain off of the tubing which might otherwise want to kink. It also keeps the tubing from sticking out quite as far in the front... I occasionally bump mine walking by.

 

[eko]

Put those elbows any place you have long tubing, or can't guarantee a straight and supported run of tubing.

I tried going with minimal elbows. Just one on each end of tubing that connects to the pot's valve and the pump's intake. But the tubing I used on to connect out of the pump and into the CFC was constantly getting kinked at the connection points. It's sturdy enough, until hot liquid starts pumping through it. I'd been meaning to get a couple elbows for a while. Working through this thread, and with Bobby's offer as the final motivator, I pulled the trigger on a pair of high flow elbow barbs and some other misc. stuff. I should've just gotten the elbows to begin with. Now I've got a couple extra high flow barbs, since they had to be replaced with the elbow + type F combos.

 

[augiedoggy]

Another vote for the stainless camlock fittings... I like them better than tri clover for everything but the cold side after the boil. My setup is loaded with them for easy cleanup.

Something to keep in mind, It shouldnt be an issue if you order them all through Bobby but SOME of the cheaper SS camlocks come with the cheaper black rubber seals instead of the white silicone ones.
Also I have bought mine from many different sources including Duda, Bargain fittings and ebay and found some of the ones sold on ebay have terribly machined male ends with so much extra material that I had to grind them down just so I can use them and they are still difficult to lock down.

I have some older food grade plastic camlocks on a "V Vessel" I bought on craigslist and the stainless ones are compatible with them also so the aluminum ones will also likely work fine with stainless counterparts.

 

[Hello]

You can remove the rings, and slip a small piece of tubing over the "wings", to give you more leverage, less skinned knuckles!

This is damn brilliant! I'm going to do this to my system.

I have about 75% of the males installed. Then, I ran out of teflon tape. I swear I had another roll- but that's for tomorrow.

The hard part is standing in front of the sculpture muttering, "Where did I want those elbows?" So any of YOU guys who have elbows in the systems are urged to tell me what the heck I'm doing here!

I walked into ACE hardware once and bought 5 rolls of tape, an attachment for my hose so I can turn it on and off at the end, and two hoses for a new kitchen faucet. The guy looked at me and said the plastic attachment didn't need teflon tape nor did the kitchen faucet hoses. I laughed and said that my stainless fittings on my brew kettles needed the tape. That just confused him more, I paid and left.

Anyway, about the elbows. If you look at @Bobby_m 's pump kit, you can see where he has elbows installed. I buy the pump kits because it is just easier. I've bought one pump and two kits from him. The elbows are nice for the tubing coming from the valve into the pump. Since for me the valve is horizontal and the pump is vertical, it just works. Maybe that is why you got them. I ordered 4 street elbows, but those are intended for dip tubes and who knows what else I thought I needed. I'll see when my box arrives and likely be doing something similar to what you're doing about why I ordered something.

@augiedoggy That is why I go to Bobby. Although I couldn't get in on his deal, I tend to stick with one supplier because I trust what he has. I could have ordered 3 piece ball valves for $11 each at another site, but I went with the regular ball valves on Bobby's site because I know I'll get a good product. I have one ball valve from Amazon and it wouldn't open and close. The guy said it would wear and get easier, I returned it, had to pay shipping, it was a mess. No more. I just stick with Bobby and call it day.