Advanced extract brewing

[steveoc]

I'm doing full boils and it can take some time for my kettle to get to a boil... About 40 min maybe? I never really thought about steeping in less my full boil volume, but this makes sense to me... So to save time I figure I could steep my grains on the stovetop as I start bringing my kettle to a boil. Im assuming there are no negatives to doing this, but I thought I'd bring it up so, if there are any issues, someone could point them out before I try this out .

That is my procedure. As soon as I have the grains steeping, I start up my outdoor propane cooker to bring 3.5-4 gallons to boil. Once the steeping is done and the grains rinsed, I add the liquid to the brewpot. At that point I may add water to bring it up to a full boil capacity if needed.

 

[BxBrewer]

That is my procedure. As soon as I have the grains steeping, I start up my outdoor propane cooker to bring 3.5-4 gallons to boil. Once the steeping is done and the grains rinsed, I add the liquid to the brewpot. At that point I may add water to bring it up to a full boil capacity if needed.

Same with me, although I use a hot plate . You can see pics of my brew setup on page 2.

 

[neild5]

I have always steeped my specialty grains in 6 gallons, sparged with 1 gallon and then bring that to boil. What is the advantage to partial stepping?

 

[steveoc]

I think the main advantage is time. I can get smaller quantities of water to desired steeping temperatures more quickly and hold it in the desired temperature window. Meanwhile the outdoor cooker is going at full blast bringing it up to boil quickly without a worry of exceeding 170 degrees. That being said, I understand that temperatures are not too critical with steeping.

Other than that, it is a workflow that will lend itself nicely into partial mash when I begin experimenting with it.

 

[muddybrew]

Advanced Extract Brewing “AEB”


A different way of brewing extract beer.
One of the biggest improvements I've made to my brewing thats not really talked about a lot. Is using a ultra light extract as your base and use the steeping grains for the color and flavor. 90% of the beers i make today are done this way. Porters,stouts,ambers and pales.

Hey Bx thanks for starting this thread! Lots of great info for beginners like me already. I have about 7 extract batches under my belt and 1 partial mash.

I was wondering what the grain bill might look like for a darker beer using ultra light extract. Must of the recipes I've made from common sites only call for 1-1.5lbs of steeping grains. Are you able to get your color out of that?

Thanks again

 

[Brulosopher]

But I have a 2-year old and I've realised long brew days with them around, even when SWMBO is watching him, isn't a great idea.

You can easily switch to smaller batch AG using the BIAB method, and do it while watching your kid.

Hey, I'm all for bringing new brewers into the fold and folks doing whatever they think is easiest or most fun, but the idea of "advanced extract brewing" confuses me, and I absolutely mean no offense. It seems to me most folks sticking with extract/partial mash have, one, never actually brewed all grain and/or, two, don't know that they can go AG using the same exact equipment used for their extract batches. In my experience, AG is easier, much cheaper, more fun, and provides the brewer much more control over their final product. I'd say jumping into AG BIAB is advanced, while ensuring your extract is fresh is common sense.

Regardless, cheers to all and happy brewing!!

 

[steveoc]

Hey Bx thanks for starting this thread! Lots of great info for beginners like me already. I have about 7 extract batches under my belt and 1 partial mash.

I was wondering what the grain bill might look like for a darker beer using ultra light extract. Must of the recipes I've made from common sites only call for 1-1.5lbs of steeping grains. Are you able to get your color out of that?

Thanks again

It is not just the quantity of grains, but it is also the grain themselves. Darker grains yield darker colors.

Good examples of grain bills for darker (and many other types of beer) may be found in Zainasheff and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. They start with a limited palette of base extracts: light, pale ale, and pilsner with additions of munich and wheat extracts.

Their American Stout starts with 10.7 pounds of light LME with 1 pound of roasted barley, .75 pounds of chocolate malt, and .75 pounds of 40L crystal.

I tend to keep Light and Pale Ale LME around with small amounts of munich and wheat as adjuncts. I get my variety from a large selection of grains (which makes having a grain mill vital—especially since I live in the middle of nowhere).

 

[BxBrewer]

Originally Posted by meegs
Thanks Denny. It was probably 2 months after I won the kit that I brewed it, and there were 3 containers of "Northern Brewer Gold Malt Syrup." One thing I noticed right away because the extract is packaged in clear milk type jugs, is that one of the 3 was significantly darker than the other two, which made me think it might be getting oxidized. I found all three to be tightly sealed with a foil type material under the caps, but who know, perhaps some O2 was getting into that one container. Anyhow, you're right, it could be the extract was not in optimal condition and that impacted the ferment.

Nice to see homebrewing rock stars such as yourself out here trolling on the forums and replying to threads. Thanks again. Ken.
Thanks for the kind words, Ken, but I'm just a homebrewer like evrybody else here.

Extracts are frequently less fermentable than AG, especially something like "Gold", which likely has Munich malt and a pretty good % of crystal. When I was helping NB design kits from my recipes I had them add a lb. of sugar to the kits in order to increase the fermentability and finish at the same FG as rhe AG versions.
__________________

Nice slice of solid info from the forum here guys. Notice the part that talks about the flavored extract not having enough fermentable sugars. Then adding in fermentable to compensate ? Sound familiar? this is why I use ultra light LME and use my steeping grains for color. Also why I keep the extra light DME on hand to boost if needed.

Using a refractometer is key during the boil. You can check the gravity at any point. But but but ! A refractometer will also include un fermentable sugars as well ! This nails home the dreaded 1.020 FG we all have ran into and how to get around it.

All grain , want to give it a shot ? Give a 1 gal batch a try. It only costs about 8 bucks for Most recipes. No extra equipment needed other than a 1 gal jug to ferment in.

Brewing all grain doesn't automatically make better beer or make you a better brewer. 1,5,10 gal, BiAB all takes the same about of time. Just less setup,clean up time for smaller batches. I don't want this thread to go south on a debate between the different styles of brewing. All styles of brewing have there own section on HBT to discuss there processes.

 

[BxBrewer]

It is not just the quantity of grains, but it is also the grain themselves. Darker grains yield darker colors.

Good examples of grain bills for darker (and many other types of beer) may be found in Zainasheff and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. They start with a limited palette of base extracts: light, pale ale, and pilsner with additions of munich and wheat extracts.

Their American Stout starts with 10.7 pounds of light LME with 1 pound of roasted barley, .75 pounds of chocolate malt, and .75 pounds of 40L crystal.

I tend to keep Light and Pale Ale LME around with small amounts of munich and wheat as adjuncts. I get my variety from a large selection of grains (which makes having a grain mill vital—especially since I live in the middle of nowhere).

How about Morebeers famed B3 stout ? Nice roasty and dark. Here is the ingredient sheet. It also uses ultra light LME in the bill.

http://morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=1428

 

[KepowOb]

You can easily switch to smaller batch AG using the BIAB method, and do it while watching your kid.

Hey, I'm all for bringing new brewers into the fold and folks doing whatever they think is easiest or most fun, but the idea of "advanced extract brewing" confuses me, and I absolutely mean no offense. It seems to me most folks sticking with extract/partial mash have, one, never actually brewed all grain and/or, two, don't know that they can go AG using the same exact equipment used for their extract batches. In my experience, AG is easier, much cheaper, more fun, and provides the brewer much more control over their final product. I'd say jumping into AG BIAB is advanced, while ensuring your extract is fresh is common sense.

Regardless, cheers to all and happy brewing!!

I don't think BIAB would be any better than what I'm currently doing, as far as having my little man around. I don't see it as being any worse either though. I agree that AG can have advantages over Extract, but that isn't really what this discussion is about. We're looking to find ways to make the best extract beer we can by learning how to work around the limitations (or perhaps debunking some of the perceived limitations). As a few people here have already said, they do both AG and extract, and for those of us who haven't done AG yet, it doesnt mean we won't, just that, while we are using extract, we'd like to get the best possible results from it.


Back onto the subject, I either heard on a podcast, or read somewhere recently (sorry, I can't remember for the life of me), that adding a small amount of base malts can really help an extract brew out. In a way they were talking about doing very small partial mashes, by adding in a pound or so of 2-row or whatever base malt the AG recipe was using, to the steeping grains, and pretty much aiming for a "steep" at 152. They also said to remove a certain amount of your base malt extract, as you were effectively replacing it... Though I forget the conversion to figure out how much to remove.

The idea behind it is that extract doesn't carry much of the original flavour of the grains, and that by adding a pound or so of the base malt to the steep/mash can make a huge difference. It seemed that they didn't want to turn all your recipes into partial mashes, as the amount of base malt was very small, but just make a slightly bigger steep, and doing it at the proper mash temp. Anyone ever tried this, or have any thoughts on it?

 

[Demus]

Fist hop add was at 60 min. That's what threw me off when I read over the sheet... Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

I bet the kit instructions are generic; they give the same sheet for the extract and all grain kit. A :90 boil serves 2 purposes for an all grain batch.
-1, you boil off more water concentrating the wort to a higher gravity.
-2, you create "kettle caramels", darkening the color slightly and getting a bit maltier flavor.
Neither of these reasons really make sense when brewing with extract. Since they have already been boiled once they are generally darker than an equivalent amount of base malt freshly mashed, and you have total control over how much water you use so there shouldn't be any reason for extra boil off. Save the half hour next time and keep the boil at :60...

 

[unionrdr]

I did AE for the first couple years of brewing. I've done some 10 partial mashes now. As to the question of a small mash with a lil bit of base malt,I've done that. I did my dark hybrid lager with 13.25ozs of grains in about 1/2 gallon of water @ 152F for an hour. Sparged with a little over a gallon of 170F water. As I remember it was about 3 gallons boil volume.
I had odd amounts of Munton's plain DME left,so 1lb plain extra light & 1/2lb plain light DME's into the boil for the flavor hop additions. At flame out,I added 1lb Munton's plain amber DME (my lhbs was out of my usual DME's in usual sizes). And the kicker? 1 can Thomas Cooper's Heritage Lager! Their most expensive can at $25.
Pitched one vial of WL029 kolsh yeast into the OG1.046 wort. With the grains also providing some color besides flavors & freshness to this odd assemblage of ingredients. So being mostly extracts,& having to compromise on the DME,it came out very well. Here it is;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/PICT0001-2_zps4b72f12c.jpg.html] [/URL]
So a small partial mash isn't much different than steeping,save for more accurate temp & water amount. Getting used to doing that whether steeping or mashing will develope some good process habits that'll always come in handy. I've also done AE IPA's with a Cooper's can,some plain DME & hops. Here's my 1st IPA BuckIPA,an AE 6G batch;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/IPA3.jpg.html] [/URL]
Just a Cooper's can,3lbs of Muntons plain light,or extra light DME usually,& the right kind & amount of hops. Although when I brew'em again,I'll add a lil tiny bit of bittering to augment the Cooper's bittering amount.
There are so many different extracts out their now compared to when I got into beer brewing a couple years ago,it's astounding. You can do some great AE beers without grains now,what with munich,vienna,marris otter & the like being available in extract form now. Toss in some quality liquid yeast like I did/do, & you'll be amazed at how different & good that simple recipe can be.
I even did an AE Burton Ale,but it's getting upgraded too. And it def wasn't cheap;
http://[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/PICT0006-2.jpg.html] [/URL]
It used 2 Cooper's cans,3lbs of Munton's plain light DME,& 3oz of hops. Def needs to at least double the hops. To all that malt,I'm going to add about a 6lb PM to get more of the flavors their original 2-3 hour boils used to get. Should be a beast. Out of all this,I have no desire to go all grain. I love playing with extracts & grains. All partial boils in the same 5 gallon (20QT) SS stock pot I started with. I just put a cake cooling rack in the bottom of the kettle to keep the 5G nylon paint strainer bag from burning/melting on the bottom. Makes steeping or mashing more efficient,since the grains can be stirred to break up dough balls & evenly wet them. & I wrap the BK/MT in my winter hunting coat to maintain mash temp. It even goes up 1 degree over the course of an hour with all the steam in the dead space.
So my whole point is,there's a ton you can do with partial boil,extracts & grains available nowadays. Just read what which one contributes to color,flavor & aroma,how much gives what,etc. That'll give you plenty to imagineer without AG or full boils. they're nice,but not absolutely needed. Being Sunday,this sermon is ended,go in peace!

 

[icepatrol]

All good info.I've been doing extract batches for about a year & a half, 17 or so. Glad I found this post.like most I don't have the time to go all grain.the question for me is boil time . I've read about breaking down sugars of malt takes 90 min.but I've always done 60 min boils. Any truth to this? Please keep writing the more knowledge the better!!

 

[Frankiesurf]

HeyBxbrewer, good thread! I too am a fisherman and homebrewer but on LI.

I was an extract brewer until I went into partial mash. I won't ever knock extract because the ease and simplicity but a BIAB partial mash only takes another few minutes to brew. Using the same equipment as extract except for a paint strainer bag you can tweak your recipes even more for flavor and color.

For the uninitiated a PM brew is basically an extract brew. The only difference is that you are using fermentable grains instead of just steeping grains which are primarily unfermentable. They just, as was mentioned before, provide color and taste.

While it may seem difficult at first, it really is as simple or complex process a you want it t be. With steeping grains you steep at 170 F, for mashing your strike water is at say 164 degrees (depending on the amount of water and grain). That is usually what I strike at and get really good efficiency.

I usually only use between two to four pounds of grain as that is all my BK will allow and continue on with a 3 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch.

My last two brews came out exactly with my target volume and target OG. My first foray into PM and my own recipe came out ( on the second batch of it) with a competition winning beer. This after brewing for only a year and two months.

Anything is possible if you put your mind to it. Once you understand the process and get your techniques down with extracts and steeping grains try the switch to partial mash. With the same equipment as extract you can fine tune your beers even further.

Again, I am not taking away from extract brewing. That is the stepping stone that I used. I most likely won't go to AG anytime soon but without figuring the process out in the extract world I never would have been able alter my process a little bit and make even better beer.

 

[JTTX80]

I'm pretty new to this but if I remember from what i read the reason to steep using smaller amount of water is because it allows the grain to bring down the PH of the water faster to allow for the extraction of more proteins and sugars preventing the leaching of tannins from the grain hulls. I do mostly extract but will add up to 5 lbs of grain because its cheaper to buy grain then extract and I an to move to AG eventually so I like getting to know how grain mash works even on a small scale.

 

[Frankiesurf]

I'm pretty new to this but if I remember from what i read the reason to steep using smaller amount of water is because it allows the grain to bring down the PH of the water faster to allow for the extraction of more proteins and sugars preventing the leaching of tannins from the grain hulls. I do mostly extract but will add up to 5 lbs of grain because its cheaper to buy grain then extract and I an to move to AG eventually so I like getting to know how grain mash works even on a small scale.

From what I have read, you only get tannins from steeping or mashing above 170 degrees.

 

[unionrdr]

I can mash (so far) 6lbs+ of grains in my 5G SS BK/MT. Mash @ 152-155F for an hour,sparge at 165-168F,giving a boil volume of 3.5 gallons. I wind up with some 2.8-3 gallons to top off to 5 or 6 gallons in the fermenter,depending on the recipe. But yeah,keeping water volume to grain amounts to minimum -medium is supposed to keep PH down. I mash 5-6lbs of grains in 2 gallons of water,sparging with 1.5 gallons. I use 3 to 3.3pounds of extract at flame out to get up to recipe OG. But it can be rewarding to do an AE brew once in a while to save time. But also having a greater knowledge base to apply to making a better beer with those extracts. Even combining new combos of extracts after having worked with the grains themselves.
And tannin extraction is being found to have more to do with PH than temperature.

 

[Mordhaus]

Well, this escalated quickly. Thread officially over my head.

 

[cheesehed007]

I bet the kit instructions are generic; they give the same sheet for the extract and all grain kit. A :90 boil serves 2 purposes for an all grain batch.
-1, you boil off more water concentrating the wort to a higher gravity.
-2, you create "kettle caramels", darkening the color slightly and getting a bit maltier flavor.
Neither of these reasons really make sense when brewing with extract. Since they have already been boiled once they are generally darker than an equivalent amount of base malt freshly mashed, and you have total control over how much water you use so there shouldn't be any reason for extra boil off. Save the half hour next time and keep the boil at :60...

Here's what I got back from Northern Brewer today. Yes an email reply on a Sunday.. Outstanding.

Steve (Northern Brewer)
Aug 11 10:47 (CDT)

Hi Bruce,

The large volume of wort will generally have a darker color than smaller samples will show in a glass. That being said, the ninety minute boil is meant to increase kettle caramelization leading to a deeper wort color & increase in malt flavor intensity. I'd hold out hope & taste a sample after primary fermentation is complete. That kit typically needs 3-4 weeks of aging in secondary or extra time spent in the bottles to yield a beer with a balanced, but hoppy, flavor.

Cheers!

 

[Demus]

For the uninitiated a PM brew is basically an extract brew. The only difference is that you are using fermentable grains instead of just steeping grains which are primarily unfermentable. They just, as was mentioned before, provide color and taste.

I'd like to point out that this isn't quite accurate. Steeping grains such as the various crystal malts absolutely do add fermentable sugar to your wort. Crystal malts are basically already mashed inside the kernel itself; the starches are already converted to sugars. Chew on one and see; it will be crunchy and sweet as opposed to chewy and grassy. A brewer need only crack the crystal malt and get the sugar into solution with warm water. That's why water volume, temperature and pH aren't critical when steeping crystal, or cara-malts. Base malts on the other hand are all starch, and require a full mash to convert the starch to sugar. This process might seem similar to steeping, but requires much more attention to water/grain ratio, water chemistry and temperature to work properly. This is true whether it's a partial mash or a mash for your entire recipe...

 

[flatlanderHQ]

This is an interesting thread for the extract brewer who is dedicated to honing their skills. It should be noted however, and perhaps it has been mentioned already in this thread, that everything discussed in the Original
Post is outlined in great detail in such books as Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beer. This is an indispensable resource for the home brewer. JZ and Palmer's book Brewing Classic Styles cites Daniels as a fundamental inspiration for the creativity and craft that can be applied to extract and AG brewing alike. BCS is in itself a testament to the award winning beer that can be made with extract / steeping / partial mash techniques. As always, find the freshest possible ingredients, do your research, hone your technique, use good water, sanitize rigorously, pitch enough healthy yeast, control fermentation temps and you will have beer you can be proud of.

 

[Teesquar]

Curious as to why the grain steep is at 170? I'll do my 30 minute steeps at around 155 to allow for more fermentables. If I want a bit more "sweetness" to the brew, I'll go closer to 160. John Palmer's "How to Brew" has a pretty good explanation on the various temps ... Chapter 14 I believe.

A little excerpt:
"What do these two enzymes and temperatures mean to the brewer? The practical application of this knowledge allows the brewer to customize the wort in terms of its fermentability. A lower mash temperature, less than or equal to 150°F, yields a thinner bodied, drier beer. A higher mash temperature, greater than or equal to 156°F, yields a less fermentable, sweeter beer. This is where a brewer can really fine tune a wort to best produce a particular style of beer."

 

[Mozart]

I'm relatively new to the hobby with about 10 or so brews under my belt (most brewed solo, but a few with a friend). All of my brews thus far have been either all extract, extract with steeping grains, or partial mashes.

Aside from the reduced space and equipment requirements and shorter brew days (clear advantages associated with extract brewing), I've recently discovered another advantage many extract brewers can enjoy.

More rapid wort cooling.

Extract and partial mash brewers who do partial boils have a lot less heat to remove from their wort than the full volume boil all-grain brewers have.

For my last few brews, I have prepared about a gallon of santized ice the day before, put an additional couple of gallons of top off water in the refrigerator, and have left a gallon or so at room temperature.

When it comes time to cool my wort, I put the ice in the bottom of my fermenting bucket, pour in the near boiling wort, and stir until the ice has melted. This doesn't take very long. Then I add refrigerated top off water until I hit my target temp, finishing up with the room temperature water if I it my target temp before having topped up to my typical 5 gallon batch size.

No immersion, counterflow, or plate chillers required.

One thing I love about this method, and part of what makes it rather quick (aside from cooling a smaller volume of wort) is that I'm only cooling the wort, I am not cooling the kettle!

One of these days I'll take some temperature measurements pre and post wort cooling, as well as record the elapsed time for the process, but I have a feeling that I spend a lot less time (and money, since the only required equipment is some inexpensive containers to make ice in) than a lot of the full volume AG brewers. After all, even with dedicated wort cooling equipment, they're still cooling a lot more wort than I am, and likely cooling their vessel as well.

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

 

[McAle]

Great thread! I'm learning a lot and enjoying the read. Many thanks to BxBrewer and all who contributed.

 

[brew_ny]

BxBrewer where are you from in the Bronx ? I grew up in Soundview and went to Taft high school, I live upstate now in the woods

great thread thanks for starting it

S_M

 

[Demus]

I'm relatively new to the hobby with about 10 or so brews...

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

Mozart, please don't take this the wrong way. We all have our own motivations for brewing, and I doubt anyone brews for the ease of it. In this day and age of craft brew revolution, the simple answer is a trip to the local market! I personally brew with extract on occasion in certain situations and completely respect those with various constraints who are happy to do it exclusively. But pros and cons aside, there's something so satisfying about producing beer from a bag of dry grain. If I ever own acreage I'll take it even further and try growing and malting the grain. 10 brews in isn't relatively new to the hobby, it's brand new. I'm glad you're happy with your results, but I hope you keep an open mind and become a student of crafting beer using many techniques. Trust me, you'll gain a deeper appreciation of beer as you attempt increasingly complex recipes and techniques. Like any sport or hobby, you get better at it by pushing your boundaries, not staying in your comfort zone.

I hope you take my comments in the positive nature I intended them. Brew on!

 

[Brulosopher]

...but I have a feeling that I spend a lot less time (and money, since the only required equipment is some inexpensive containers to make ice in) than a lot of the full volume AG brewers. After all, even with dedicated wort cooling equipment, they're still cooling a lot more wort than I am, and likely cooling their vessel as well.

Yes, there are a lot of well documented advantages to all-grain brewing and full volume boils - no question, but there are a number of advantages to extract brewing as well.

I'm absolutely certain you're spending less time (and money) on your beer than I (a full volume AG brewer) am. 100% no contesting that, I can guarantee it. And if your purpose in making beer at home is to streamline the process and reduce the time you spend in the craft, then more power to you. My goal is great tasting beer, which I believe is one of the many well documented advantages of AG brewing. I also enjoy the act of brewing, from doughing-in to chilling... clean up can be a bitch, but hey.

I hope you accept this in the positive tone I intended

 

[Mozart]

I hope you take my comments in the positive nature I intended them. Brew on!

So taken, and I absolutely will brew on!

Yes, I'm a pretty new brewer, but there's already been an evolution in my techniques. My first brews were extract or extract with steeping grain. It didn't take all that long for me to start doing BIAB partial mashes. After my first partial mash, I realized that as long as I was willing to sacrifice a little quantity (brewing 2.5 to 3 gallons instead of my usual 5), that it would be easy enough to brew an AG BIAB batch. That one's carbonating as I write this.

I think part of the fun of this hobby is learning, experimenting, and improving, and one can do each and every one of those things whether one is an extract, partial mash, or AG brewer.

 

[brew_ny]

I think part of the fun of this hobby is learning, experimenting, and improving, and one can do each and every one of those things whether one is an extract, partial mash, or AG brewer.

so true, it is all about finding out what works for you in your setup so you are able to turn out the end product that you want

I am a new brewer and have only done a couple of extract brews with steeping grains just kegged my second on Sunday a very hop forward West Coast type IPA

and it tastes great, I am getting ready to start a Porter partial mash in the next hour or so

all the best and enjoy the day

S_M

 

[BxBrewer]

@ Brew NY, im in Shore Haven part of the bronx. At the end of Castle hill ave.

@Brulodopher i welcome your input. While some have never brewed a AG batch a beer yet. There are some who do both. And even some who went back for extract or partial mash full time. Like you i say brew on ! In this day and age. With new products,ingredients and processes . The debate between AG and Extract just isn't there. BTW the article you wrote on yeast harvesting is wonderful ! Im going to start on mine today !

@FlatlanderHQ, there a lot of great books out there on brewing. The point of me starting this thread had a couple of purposes. One was to show that there are people out there who love brewing and take brewing with extracts seriously . The other was to showcase some of the other brew day processes and techniques than the standard advancements . I cant tell you how many times ive ran into this and the thread says a lot. And for me just rocking the carboy isn't enough. When i used to do partial boils i used a wine degasser chucked into my cordless drill to make sure the two were mixed.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/og-readings-abv-426560/#post5427468