Adding water salts?

[Dhm8484]

If I'm doing mash in a bag with no sparge full volume do I assume I add all my water additions to the mash water. I'm also using distilled water and building up from that.

 

[FunkedOut]

That's exactly what I just did on my last two batches; both brewed on Saturday.
Results in a few weeks.
I don't see any other way.

 

[Dhm8484]

Okay that's what I'm thinking same with you just wanted to be sure you know

 

[RM-MN]

You'll want all your mineral additions done before adding the grains. Conversion starts immediately and may be nearly complete before you can get all the minerals added if you put the grain in first.

 

[AMessenger]

You'll want all your mineral additions done before adding the grains. Conversion starts immediately and may be nearly complete before you can get all the minerals added if you put the grain in first.

Interesting. And what would be the harm in that?

 

[mabrungard]

Mixing the salts and acid into the water first, before introducing any grain, helps assure that those ions are fully and evenly dispersed in the water. Be sure to stir the water to help salts dissolve since some salts just fall to the bottom and they need a little 'help' to get into solution.

 

[RM-MN]

Interesting. And what would be the harm in that?

The point of the mineral additions is to help create the right conditions for the enzymes to convert the starches. The help control the proper pH during the mash.

 

[jturman35]

If the OP decides to sparge later on down the road can you adjust the sparge water if using distilled water?

Say he added all of the water for a full mash and pulled a gal or two out right before adding the grains for the sparge portion?

 

[Yooper]

If the OP decides to sparge later on down the road do you adjust the sparge water if using distilled water?

No. There is no problem with sparging with 100% RO or distilled water, as it has negligible alkalinity, regardless of the pH.

 

[FunkedOut]

Is there harm in taking the approach of adding salts and acid for the full volume mash, then simply reserving some for sparge?

 

[jturman35]

What about the other minerals you need for taste? I Understand the benefits for the mash portion. Just trying to make sense. Seems like adding a gal or two distilled water would water down the mineral water of the finished product?

 

[RM-MN]

What about the other minerals you need for taste? I Understand the benefits for the mash portion. Just trying to make sense. Seems like adding a gal or two distilled water would water down the mineral water of the finished product?

I'm going to presume that your sparge is not a large portion of your wort. The main point of the mineral additions is to make the mash have the right minerals and pH. Sparging is going to rinse out the remaining sugars, then you boil off.....pure water. There goes your distilled water you added.

 

[FunkedOut]

The Bru'n Water spreadsheet treats the sparge water the same as the mash water, as far as mineral content is concerned.
An exception to that rule for the spreadsheet is a comment provided in the sparge cell that reads:

If your boil kettle produces evaporation loss of more than about 10 percent of the beginning volume, you can consider entering a smaller than actual volume for the sparging water to help reduce the added mineral quantity to your water and avoid excessive mineralization to the wort.

No guidance on how much to reduce the volume by is given.
(a little context: the spreadsheet calculates salt additions per gallon of water, then multiplies by the number of gallons specified for the mash water and for the sparge water)

I assume that all of the provided profiles per style in the spreadsheet are mash targets.
@mabrungard please correct me if I am wrong.
With no sparge, the sparge water field is 0 gallons, so all the additions go in the mash water.
The spreadsheet includes this concept in its guidance, regardless of evaporation rate.
The mineral content in the finished wort/beer will end up higher than the mash content, because of evaporation.

I guess if you're aiming for a beer mineral content, evaporation must be taken into account.
Boil durations will then affect the mash additions, and subsequently acid additions.
(The acid content is completely independent between mash and sparge in the spreadsheet; target and additions.)

My plan is to brew a few batches with the profiles provided as mash targets, no sparge.
I will adjust to taste per recipe in future batches.
Maybe I will see the light and be able to tweak profiles on new recipes after gaining some experience.
Lots of brewing and drinking ahead!

 

[mabrungard]

It is those cases where a brewer's system results in fairly high evaporation losses, that the issue of ion concentration becomes a concern. We homebrewers tend to boil our wort too hard and too long because we've always heard that we needed to to avoid the dreaded DMS issue. We end up damaging our beers because of this.

Limiting total evaporation losses to less than 10 percent is a wise goal for homebrewers. Pro's typically limit their evaporation losses to even lower percentages and they don't have DMS problems. Covering your kettle and reducing the heat input is an easy way to reduce excessive evaporation loss and wort damage. When brewing in places that are less than about 1000 feet above sea level, a 30 min covered simmer followed by a 30 min open boil does avoid those issues.

 

[FunkedOut]

Yes, I've seen information you've provided in the past about DMS only needing a few minutes to boil off after being boiled covered for the first half to 3/4 of the mash.
I have always boiled as gently as possible; uncovered. With my kettle and batch sizes, that yields a 15% evaporation rate.

I've been meaning to try the method of covering the kettle until the last 20 minutes, when I submerge my immersion chiller. One variable at a time...

I've yet to drink any of my brews using adjusted distilled water. I'm working on my last two kegs where I used tap water. Lab results from my tap water showed really high mineral content, like 100ppm across the board.
I'm sure that even with a 15% boil off, I will find quite the difference using Bru'n Water's suggested profiles.

 

[VipperOfVipp]

Yes, I've seen information you've provided in the past about DMS only needing a few minutes to boil off after being boiled covered for the first half to 3/4 of the mash.
I have always boiled as gently as possible; uncovered. With my kettle and batch sizes, that yields a 15% evaporation rate.

I've been meaning to try the method of covering the kettle until the last 20 minutes, when I submerge my immersion chiller. One variable at a time...

I've yet to drink any of my brews using adjusted distilled water. I'm working on my last two kegs where I used tap water. Lab results from my tap water showed really high mineral content, like 100ppm across the board.
I'm sure that even with a 15% boil off, I will find quite the difference using Bru'n Water's suggested profiles.

I just brewed my 4th beer using RO water and adding salts and the difference is astounding. I did the oatmeal stout, English ordinary bitter, and Scottish heavy, and am fermenting the brown porter all from brewing classic styles. I tried a few different mixes but I like the bru’n water balanced profile with touch more CACl to get the calcium up to 75.