Adding alpha-galactosidase to carboy (ONE FOR THE EXPERTS!)

[peroua15]

So long story short. Inaccurate thermometer lead to incredibly high mash temp. for my imperial stout. Lots of unfermentable sugars in this beer i'm thinking. Checked to gravity after 2 weeks and its at 1.050 (started at 1.091)!

So i'm experimenting a little bit here. I used 1056 with starter. Mash was actually at 165 instead of 154, which is what I desired.

I ordered a nottingham yeast pack and alpha-g enzyme. I was thinking i would add a little bit (half a pill) of the enzyme with a little bit of the dry yeast (rehydrated). Keep an eye on it daily, then once it hits my desired Fg (about 1.020) then siphon it into my brew pot (heat to about 58 C to stop to alpha-g enzyme. then proceed to the normal bottling process

Is this a reliable plan? Maybe no one has done this specifically, but I feel like it can work. I DO NOT want a really really really sweet beer.

Only problem that may occur is would heating the beer up that high kill all the yeast? That would lead to no carbonation....right? Add a touch of yeast to bottling bucket right before bottling?

 

[helibrewer]

Seems like a reasonable plan. I would definitely add 3-4g of dry yeast for bottle conditioning.

 

[AT-JeffT]

I think the science is sound. Just be sure to not skip the denaturing step. A-amylase has natural limits of where it will stop cleaving sugars. Some quick research tells me that Agalactosidase works differently and will break down complex sugars to a much further (to a level undesirable for brewing) than a-amylase.

136F(58C) is pretty high for finished beer. Its much higher than ideal, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would be effected greatly. You might get some oxidation, but I think the tradeoffs are worth the risks.

Most importantly, record what you do and post your results.

 

[peroua15]

Thanks for the input guys.

Another question: What exactly is the difference between the amylase and galactosidase. Amylase is usually used in mash obviously. Would using amylase instead of galacto. be preferable? How is amylase more "controllable"? You say it has a limit and will naturally stop after some time while galactosidase will not...?

Also, I will definitely add a few grams of yeast to the bottling bucket, since 130 F will likely kill the remainder of viable yeast

 

[AT-JeffT]

Another question: What exactly is the difference between the amylase and galactosidase. Amylase is usually used in mash obviously. Would using amylase instead of galacto. be preferable? How is amylase more "controllable"? You say it has a limit and will naturally stop after some time while galactosidase will not...?

To answer that would require more chemistry knowledge than I currently possess.(I maxed out on my first post, ha) Anyways, I'm not entirely sure how galcosidase works but here is a video showing how amylase works. It should give you a better idea of what amylase can and can't do. It illustrates that quite well.

 

[dcp27]

alot of homebrew shops carry the amylase enzyme, i'd give that a go before trying the galacto. i've used it before in a pinch with good results. it should re-start fermentation and won't need to be denatured

 

[PDX_T]

heating the beer will kill the yeast. It may produce meaty/soy sauce off flavors. If you can, filter it first before heating. Sorry that happened to you.

 

[peroua15]

heating the beer will kill the yeast. It may produce meaty/soy sauce off flavors. If you can, filter it first before heating. Sorry that happened to you.

Ok thanks. What do you mean by filtering? Meaning no trub from the carboy...?

Also, how long would it take for the alpha amylase enzyme to stop? one-two weeks?

 

[peroua15]

alot of homebrew shops carry the amylase enzyme, i'd give that a go before trying the galacto. i've used it before in a pinch with good results. it should re-start fermentation and won't need to be denatured

So the enzyme just stops after a weed or two? how come? I want this beer to finish at 1.020....so I would have imagined it to just keep going? The carboy temp. is in the mid 60's......could you explain?

 

[dcp27]

So the enzyme just stops after a weed or two? how come? I want this beer to finish at 1.020....so I would have imagined it to just keep going? The carboy temp. is in the mid 60's......could you explain?

amylase can only break certain bonds of the sugars, so it won't all end up as simple sugars and fully ferment out like the galacto can do. i think ive used it 2 or 3 times and it always ended up about where i wanted, and never below 1.010. i know theres other threads where it's been used on the site, maybe one of those has some more in depth info

in the meantime, here's some old article with some info on the subject: http://brewery.org/brewery/library/enzymes595.html

 

[PDX_T]

Ok thanks. What do you mean by filtering? Meaning no trub from the carboy...?

Also, how long would it take for the alpha amylase enzyme to stop? one-two weeks?

what I mean by filter is pass it through a filtration device that can remove yeast. I don't suggest you run out and buy the equipment to do this, but if you had it, it would be useful here.

 

[PDX_T]

I can't predict how long it would take either of those enzymes to finish working, but probably less time than the yeast would need to finish fermenting it. If you're concerned about body and mouth feel, you'll want to add the alpha-amylase, not the alpha-galactosidase. alpha-galactosidase is a very aggressive enzyme and will digest almost all of the dextrins that contribute to body.

 

[passedpawn]

So long story short. Inaccurate thermometer lead to incredibly high mash temp. for my imperial stout. Lots of unfermentable sugars in this beer i'm thinking. Checked to gravity after 2 weeks and its at 1.050 (started at 1.091)!

So i'm experimenting a little bit here. I used 1056 with starter. Mash was actually at 165 instead of 154, which is what I desired.

I ordered a nottingham yeast pack and alpha-g enzyme. I was thinking i would add a little bit (half a pill) of the enzyme with a little bit of the dry yeast (rehydrated). Keep an eye on it daily, then once it hits my desired Fg (about 1.020) then siphon it into my brew pot (heat to about 58 C to stop to alpha-g enzyme. then proceed to the normal bottling process

Is this a reliable plan? Maybe no one has done this specifically, but I feel like it can work. I DO NOT want a really really really sweet beer.

Only problem that may occur is would heating the beer up that high kill all the yeast? That would lead to no carbonation....right? Add a touch of yeast to bottling bucket right before bottling?

Loads of people have done this. Galactosidase is the enzyme in Beano. Do a search on that and you will find lots of info.

Most of the anecdotes are negative because that enzyme will dry the beer out. But if you plan on denaturing it with heat, you'll be OK. Note that the ethanol will start boiling at 170. You also run the risk of losing a bunch of other volatiles that give beer its character by heating it. Good luck.

 

[peroua15]

thanks for the help guys!

 

[peroua15]

heating the beer will kill the yeast. It may produce meaty/soy sauce off flavors. If you can, filter it first before heating. Sorry that happened to you.

Just a quick question about your comment: Have you done this before? where you found it produced these off flavors due to heating it up?

 

[PDX_T]

I work for a brewery. This is what happens when unfiltered beer is pasteurized.

 

[peroua15]

I work for a brewery. This is what happens when unfiltered beer is pasteurized.

Oh okay, well yeah there was essentially no way around this one for me. just had to do it and see how it turns out. I added some coffee and maltodextrin during bottling, so we will see how it turns out. had a small shot of it at the end of bottling. and no meaty soy flavors from what i can tell. if there was maybe time and aging will cause them to subdue and dissipate. thanks for the info. though. cheers

 

[PDX_T]

Experiments are always fun. Good luck!