Add caramel flavor w/o adding color?

[crookshc]

Any ideas out there for adding the caramel flavor of caramel 80-ish without adding the inherent color associated with darker caramel malts?

I've tried caramel 10 with a high mash temp, and while the color was spot on, it still didn't have the more toffee-like notes I'm looking for. Not really aiming for any particular style, just experimenting.

Cheers!

 

[Piratwolf]

You might try adding the C80 for the last ten minutes of your mash. IIRC, crystal malt doesn't need to convert b/c of the way it's made. You're essentially just rinsing the sugars out.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Mongrel]

If you want just color, add your dark grains just before you start the vorlauf. Gordon Strong highly recommends this method in his book Brewing Better Beer.

 

[Piratwolf]

If you want just color...

um.. check the title?

 

[Mongrel]

um.. check the title?

Sorry, I was responding to you. Didn't hit the quote button. Late mash additions will add color without the full flavor contributions.

 

[mugzz819]

What about adding some candy sugar? There's a post about making your own somewhere on the forum, sorry I'm on my phone or I would find it for you...I know there's a link in the recipe database in the recipe for caramel amber ale. Basically you just cook the sugar on your stove top with some water and yeast nutrient and the amount of time it cooks determines the color and associated flavors. I don't think it would color the beer like grains will but it should give you that caramel flavor...I did it for that recipe and it wasn't hard at all and the flavor was amazing.

 

[gr8shandini]

What color are you shooting for? I don't think you'll ever get carmel flavors and still have a "golden" beer. If you're OK with an amber, I'd try using less crystal and more of a darker base malt like Marris Otter or Vienna.

I can't remember which TV chef said it, but his remark that "brown is the color of flavor" stuck in my head. I think the two just go together.

 

[Bobby_M]

Crystal 10 is fine for this. You won't get much color out of it at only a pound.

 

[Piratwolf]

Sorry, I was responding to you. Didn't hit the quote button. Late mash additions will add color without the full flavor contributions.

Gotcha. So it looks like the opposite of what I was hoping... A good call about the color extraction, though. I'd forgotten that episode.

 

[Homercidal]

I can't think of a way to get the 80L flavors without some color. You could try adding some caramel/toffee. IMO there is a fair amount of difference between the crystal malts. 10L will taste nothing like 80L. I think there is a difference between 40L and 80L.

It's tricky, but you could also caramelize some sugar on the stove. If you are careful you might get what you want with less color. Alton Brown had a good eats episode on sugar.

 

[bobbrews]

The flavors you speak of are developed by the melanoidin formations formed through Maillard Reaction (non-enzymatic browning, which results from a chemical reaction between an amino acid and a reducing sugar, usually requiring heat.)

There is no way to achieve those distinct, deep, toffee-like caramel flavors without also achieving color.

It would be like asking for a very tasty medium rare steak with a solid light grey exterior and no char whatsoever.
You could briefly boil it to achieve most of that, but it would not be even close to the same, flavorwise.

What's your aversion towards color?... You prejudiced or something? Just kidding

 

[Homercidal]

That's so racist.

 

[crookshc]

Haha, thanks for the tips Basically this stemmed from a brew were the judges thought it needed more malt complexity, but I love the deep golden color I had it at. This already included 10% C-10, so I think it needs darker malts. I'm just trying to find a way to keep the color while adding the complexity. Here's a pic that shows what I want to keep the color at...

 

[Mongrel]

Looks great. What temp did you mash at? You could try mashing a couple degrees hotter next time. You don't necessarily have to change your malt bill.

 

[crookshc]

Thanks. I already had it at 158, so I'm kind of at a loss. I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and go darker.

 

[Raenon]

Are you wedded to getting your flavor from malt/sugars only, or have you considered adding a flavoring extract?

There are several natural and many synthetic flavors that would do exactly what you seek with little to no color change, but I know many brewers would consider that "cheating."
Working with flavorings in another industry where most consumers are only concerned with the final taste, not what caused it, I'm perhaps a bit more forgiving in my thinking.
For example, I have a Blueberry Porter that I've been brewing, and since I only used 3lb of blueberry puree in a 5 gallon batch, I was really only hoping for the blue/purple color to show through in the edges, and perhaps a bit of aroma. Unless it contributes a LOT more flavor than expected, I plan to add additional blueberry extract.

 

[ScottSingleton]

Complexity doesn't necessarily mean toffee/caramel flavors though right? You could always try some of the lighter euro malts like an Aromatic Malt -- which is about 20-25 Lovibond, or Victory/Biscuit. Those will add some complexity and if used sparingly enough shouldn't alter your color too much.

 

[thegerm]

if you're trying to address competition judging then my understanding is that appearance accounts for far less of the score than the taste. So while you might get knocked a single point for the darkened color, you'd gain 5 or whatever due to the improved flavor.

IMO if you want crystal 80 flavors, use crystal 80.

 

[Homercidal]

Complexity doesn't necessarily mean toffee/caramel flavors though right? You could always try some of the lighter euro malts like an Aromatic Malt -- which is about 20-25 Lovibond, or Victory/Biscuit. Those will add some complexity and if used sparingly enough shouldn't alter your color too much.

if you're trying to address competition judging then my understanding is that appearance accounts for far less of the score than the taste. So while you might get knocked a single point for the darkened color, you'd gain 5 or whatever due to the improved flavor.

IMO if you want crystal 80 flavors, use crystal 80.

Both.

 

[daksin]

Also remember you can use other base malts or lightly colored malts to gain complexity- honey malt and biscuit malt add very interesting (powerful- use sparingly) flavors, adn then there's always munich, vienna, maris otter, pils, and other base malts you can use to add interest to your malt backbone. Also consider upping the base malt and mashing higher- too much light crystal can make a beer sweet.