Acquired some frozen cherries.....do I have to pit 'em before use?

[Jayjay1976]

I have about 20lbs of frozen cherries from last year, they're in good shape but unfortunately were not pitted before being frozen.
Will they be hard to pit after being frozen? Do they need to be pitted before using them in a beer?

Thanks!

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

From what I've read, leaving the stones in stone fruits provides additional depth. I don't have any direct experience with it though. Tonsmiere talks about it a bit in American Sour Beers:

"Some brewers treasure the character that cherry pits add to beer, often described as woody or almond-like. To replace the pits removed from processed cherries, some brewers add a small amount of crushed sour cherry pits (sold as mahlab for Middle Eastern cooking). Dogfish Head Brewery added mahlab to Midas Touchstone (they suggest 0.2 oz./gal. [1.5g/L]), a sour cherry variation on Midas Touch. Be careful of this, however, as the TTB has set a limit of 1ppm of cyanide, a compound which cherry pits contain naturally."

I'd throw them in, even with a cherry pitting device, I imagine it would be a long and messy experience to pit thawed cherries. I have some myself from our tree that finally started producing enough that I plan to throw in pit and all.

Good luck!

 

[Jayjay1976]

From what I've read, leaving the stones in stone fruits provides additional depth. I don't have any direct experience with it though. Tonsmiere talks about it a bit in American Sour Beers:

"Some brewers treasure the character that cherry pits add to beer, often described as woody or almond-like. To replace the pits removed from processed cherries, some brewers add a small amount of crushed sour cherry pits (sold as mahlab for Middle Eastern cooking). Dogfish Head Brewery added mahlab to Midas Touchstone (they suggest 0.2 oz./gal. [1.5g/L]), a sour cherry variation on Midas Touch. Be careful of this, however, as the TTB has set a limit of 1ppm of cyanide, a compound which cherry pits contain naturally."

I'd throw them in, even with a cherry pitting device, I imagine it would be a long and messy experience to pit thawed cherries. I have some myself from our tree that finally started producing enough that I plan to throw in pit and all.

Good luck!

Hey thanks! I'm vacuum bagging them and will use a sous vide bath to pasteurize the fruit before adding to secondary.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

That's a great idea for pasteurizing fruit additions! I'm going to steal that!

 

[Cptblamo]

I use an immersion circulator to pasteurize fruit and raw honey. I have also read it is a good way to infuse alcohols. A good way to create ur own extract, some vodka and spices will only take a couple hours in sous vide as opposed to weeks. Not sure about oak though.

 

[Jayjay1976]

That's a great idea for pasteurizing fruit additions! I'm going to steal that!

Hey great! BTW, according to the internet, you'll need to heat the fruit to 145F for a full 30 minutes to pasteurize. The home brewers association says you should heat the fruit to 150-170F and hold for about 15 minutes. They also recommend freezing and thawing the fruit a couple of times to burst all of the cell walls, maximizing flavor extraction, then bag the fruit pulp like you would with hops and drop into secondary to avoid having to filter the finished beer.

TBH I was a little worried about getting a "cooked fruit" flavor, but those commercial fruit purees made for brewing are canned at 250F+ and seem to work just fine. Hopefully, a simple pasteurization at 150F will yield an even fresher fruit flavor profile.

 

[Cptblamo]

Pasteurization is a very complex process. If u look at proper food handling, some cooked meats are ok if held at lower temperatures for longer times. An example, how do u get pasteurized eggs without cooking its cooking its contents. The bacteria in the egg die at very slow rate at 135, allowing an egg to be pasteurized over 45 min to an hour. The times and temperatures start to get very complicated, therefore local health districts simplify the rules for kids that work at McDonald's who really dont care about micro biology. All salmonella is dead at 165 at one second, so health districts say cook chicken to 165 because it is easy to understand. I pasteurize at 135-140 for one hour then into an ice bath. I still get good flavor and any flavor that was leeched out will end up in the juice in the bag. I have about 15 years of kitchen experience. I will also try to find the article by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt that explains better than I do.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Pasteurization is a very complex process. If u look at proper food handling, some cooked meats are ok if held at lower temperatures for longer times. An example, how do u get pasteurized eggs without cooking its cooking its contents. The bacteria in the egg die at very slow rate at 135, allowing an egg to be pasteurized over 45 min to an hour. The times and temperatures start to get very complicated, therefore local health districts simplify the rules for kids that work at McDonald's who really dont care about micro biology. All salmonella is dead at 165 at one second, so health districts say cook chicken to 165 because it is easy to understand. I pasteurize at 135-140 for one hour then into an ice bath. I still get good flavor and any flavor that was leeched out will end up in the juice in the bag. I have about 15 years of kitchen experience. I will also try to find the article by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt that explains better than I do.

Your insight and experience are extremely welcome, thank you so much for joining the discussion!

 

[Cptblamo]

https://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-chicken-breast.html
This article about cooking chicken explains it in depth. There is a chart a ways down talking about the times and temps for chicken, which I think would also apply for fruit, just add a little extra time to make sure the entire amount of fruit was at that temp.

 

[Cptblamo]

Your insight and experience are extremely welcome, thank you so much for joining the discussion!

Haha, thanks. I usually try to find stuff interesting on this forum and this piqued my interest. When I got my circulator I did a ton of research. I have also read about using it to hold temps for biab, but I havent tried.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Haha, thanks. I usually try to find stuff interesting on this forum and this piqued my interest. When I got my circulator I did a ton of research. I have also read about using it to hold temps for biab, but I havent tried.

I, too BIAB and I am super curious about using one of my sous vide circulators to make alcohol, I just haven't taken the plunge yet....

I was a die-hard sous vide carnitas devotee up until I tried braising a pork shoulder in Mexican cola recently. I don't think I'll be going back, the flavor is amazing but now I need to find new reasons to bust out my circulator. Pasteurizing fruit for fruit beers seems like a natural, but also mashing base malt to make wort for starters and boosting OG seem like an obvious use. Infusing alcohol also sounds like a blast, I just don't have a use at the moment...

 

[kestrelbrewing]

I, too BIAB and I am super curious about using one of my sous vide circulators to make alcohol, I just haven't taken the plunge yet....

I was a die-hard sous vide carnitas devotee up until I tried braising a pork shoulder in Mexican cola recently. I don't think I'll be going back, the flavor is amazing but now I need to find new reasons to bust out my circulator. Pasteurizing fruit for fruit beers seems like a natural, but also mashing base malt to make wort for starters and boosting OG seem like an obvious use. Infusing alcohol also sounds like a blast, I just don't have a use at the moment...

I recently discovered that the sous vide actually makes awesome corn on the cob. You can put the butter in there while it cooks. And asparagus, same deal. I even saw a sous vide recipe for hollandaise in a bag that I haven't tried yet.

 

[Cptblamo]

I make custard for ice cream. Steaks of course are a lot easier in them. I can focus on side dishes while the steak cooks away. Anything u can crock pot can go in sous vide. Freeze several batches and drop them in the water before work. If I am making a large and complicated dinner where all most stove burners and oven are being used, sous vide gives me more space. What was this thread originally about?

 

[kestrelbrewing]

This is the second sous vide brewing thread today I've seen go from being about brewing to being about cooking … makes sense, beer and food go great together!

 

[verboten]

I pitted all of mine last year, after they were frozen, it was a mushy mess.

 

[bracconiere]

i might be way off, but i thought the seeds in stone fruits had significant cyanide?

edit: just a quick google, but 20lb's? could be a concern.....

 

[etk29321]

i might be way off, but i thought the seeds in stone fruits had significant cyanide?

edit: just a quick google, but 20lb's? could be a concern.....

Yep. I believe that’s also the source of the “almond” flavor.

 

[Craiginthecorn]

Interesting article about cherry pits.

https://food52.com/blog/20223-british-man-cherry-pits-cyanide-poisoning-amygdalin

 

[Cptblamo]

I have read (yesterday because of this thread) that belgian brewers used to keep cherries with pits in beer for up to a year. The article went on to say that u run the risk, and if u really want the almond flavor to add almond extract or liquor. It also says that heat lowers the chances of poisoning. At the end of the day u run the risk. I wouldnt put one or two pits per beer, make sure the pits dont break, dont drink too many, and when u do, dial 91 and dial the other 1 when u cant breath.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I have read (yesterday because of this thread) that belgian brewers used to keep cherries with pits in beer for up to a year. The article went on to say that u run the risk, and if u really want the almond flavor to add almond extract or liquor. It also says that heat lowers the chances of poisoning. At the end of the day u run the risk. I wouldnt put one or two pits per beer, make sure the pits dont break, dont drink too many, and when u do, dial 91 and dial the other 1 when u cant breath.

YIKES. I think I'll just go ahead and pit them.. Would it be safe to cook them for a bit in the sous vide, maybe break them down to make the pits easier to dig out? I'm hoping I can just squeeze them up and scoop out the pits with a spoon. I also read that freezing and thawing repeatedly can help break down the skins and flesh, maybe that's a safer route?

OMG lightbulb just came on; I'm going to vacuum bag them, squish them up IN THE BAG, shimmy all the pits to one corner and then pop those suckers out through a small hole! Then I'm going to seal them back up and pasteurize!
JAYJAY FTW!