AB acquired Wicked Weed

[Cape Brewing]

Where are you getting "its so hard to make it in an AB dominated market" from??

When was that said?

What's been said is that InBev is trying to whatever they can to squash craft beer (however you define that). On the one hand, sure every company wants to crush their competition but on the other, they continue to try to do it illegally and they are trying to do everything they can to eliminate small breweries a lot of consumers are passionate about.

And sorry... the "whaaaaat? C'mmmmmon... it's only a little illegal" position is bullshti.

 

[GoeHaarden]

In fact, it makes it more difficult for new breweries to break into the market.

This!!! Kind of got this whole debate in motion....and then got twisted into legalese. But the pot-stirrer that I am couldn't stop. HAHAHA

Anyways, next you all are going to try to tell me to stop buying fuel because the EPA has fined all of the oil companies for one thing or another. Law is interpretive, and sure AB probably pushes their interpretation to the extreme.

These big companies are necessary evils, and I don't see a decline in the craft beer market due to their marketing or business tactics. The craft beer market only continues to grow...

EDIT: and I'm really just having fun here, no hard feelings I love you all!

 

[Syke]

I don't see a decline in the craft beer market due to their marketing or business tactics.

I sure do. Last trip I took, the only beer at the airport was InBev.

Another example, Deschutes dropped from distribution.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/...raft-brewers-concerned-over-new-a-b-nbev.html

Another example, 6 more breweries dropped from distribution.

http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...cle_073584a8-4e2b-5662-a86b-932c4c5d850e.html

No big deal, right, they can just sign with another distributor. Unfortunately, Krey (owned by Busch) controls 70% of the market in that region. Switching to another distributor will massively damage sales for those breweries. Customer selection suffers.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I sure do. Last trip I took, the only beer at the airport was InBev.

Another example, Deschutes dropped from distribution.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/...raft-brewers-concerned-over-new-a-b-nbev.html

Another example, 6 more breweries dropped from distribution.

http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...cle_073584a8-4e2b-5662-a86b-932c4c5d850e.html

No big deal, right, they can just sign with another distributor. Unfortunately, Krey (owned by Busch) controls 70% of the market in that region. Switching to another distributor will massively damage sales for those breweries. Customer selection suffers.

Dude, the airport? Really...hahahahaha

Excuse my lack of knowledge regarding behind the scenes activity, but are you saying that these craft breweries are using a Busch owned distributors in the first place? So without this distributor (owned by AB) they wouldn't be distributing anyways, right? Like I said, a necessary evil!

 

[jmark]

Can someone explain how ABI is able to control distributors? I always found that hard to understand given the three tier system we have.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Can someone explain how ABI is able to control distributors? I always found that hard to understand given the three tier system we have.

It's a tough crowd. Good luck buddy!

 

[Murphys_Law]

I sure do. Last trip I took, the only beer at the airport was InBev.
.

Did you order a Coke or a Pepsi? Because you couldn't order one of each.

And I used to be a 100K a year flyer and could always find good beer in all but the smallest of airports so you may be exaggerating a wee bit.

 

[jmark]

It's a tough crowd. Good luck buddy!

I'm legitimately asking the question. I can't stand the way that ABI acts and would really like to understand how they're able to control or own distributors?

 

[Cape Brewing]

This!!! Kind of got this whole debate in motion....and then got twisted into legalese. But the pot-stirrer that I am couldn't stop. HAHAHA

Anyways, next you all are going to try to tell me to stop buying fuel because the EPA has fined all of the oil companies for one thing or another. Law is interpretive, and sure AB probably pushes their interpretation to the extreme.

These big companies are necessary evils, and I don't see a decline in the craft beer market due to their marketing or business tactics. The craft beer market only continues to grow...

EDIT: and I'm really just having fun here, no hard feelings I love you all!

How many of the 5,000+ current breweries have production levels below of 500 bbls? How many are below 1,500 bbls?

You keep equating "breaking into the market" with a level, legal, and fair playing field... which... I think is ignorant and naive at best.

Yes, there are a ton of breweries popping up everywhere so "getting into the market", isn't the problem. The problem is when these small breweries start to grow in any way and can't get into tap accounts or shelf space, which stunts their growth dramatically, because InBev is a "necessary evil" by breaking the law and doing everything they can to lock craft breweries out of the market.

You can stir the pot all you want... just try to have even a mildly intelligent position to bring to the conversation. This is a pretty open community regarding new ideas (hell, NEIPAs... the #2 value meal of beer is all the rage these days). If you state a position that has even a little intelligence behind it, folks will generally at least listen.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Can someone explain how ABI is able to control distributors? I always found that hard to understand given the three tier system we have.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.time...heuser-busch-sabmiller-craft-beer/?source=dam

Point number 4

Also... and I will do some google-foo on this but as of a year or two ago, the second largest distributor in the US was..... Anheiser Busch. Who do you think they heavily lean towards in terms of sales?

 

[Cape Brewing]

Still looking but in 2014, they were #1

http://katzamericas.blogspot.com/2014/03/list-top-30-us-beer-distributors.html?m=1

 

[Syke]

Can someone explain how ABI is able to control distributors? I always found that hard to understand given the three tier system we have.

They also kickback payments to distributors. The less non-InBev products they carry, the larger the kickback.

 

[GoeHaarden]

You can stir the pot all you want... just try to have even a mildly intelligent position to bring to the conversation

Not being a "craft beer" radical makes my position lack intelligent backing? How is that some newly established craft breweries take off and become successful, while others don't? That's because not all craft breweries make good beer (according to my palate, chill!), and I don't feel I need to support an inferior product simply because it's labeled a craft beer. Maybe some of you do!?

This all kind of started by me saying that I will still buy Wicked Weed beers, because they make good beer!!!! I don't care who owns them. Whatever...AB has shady business practices, but good luck stopping them so why get your feathers ruffled by it? I tend to reserve my worries for more important matters.

Some people probably want me to stop drinking Founder's, one of my favorite craft breweries, because they're technically no longer craft according to subjective arbitrary qualifiers.

If you state a position that has even a little intelligence behind it, folks will generally at least listen.

Your response alone implies listening. I'm not trying to rally people...

Go hit the wall again bro!

https://accessphilanthropy.com/funders/anheuser-busch-foundation/ You're right they're monsters...

 

[Cape Brewing]

Not being a "craft beer" radical makes my position lack intelligent backing?

No, you not having a basic understanding of the situation makes you position lack intelligent backing. You asked what laws they had broken as if making the point that none had been. You were then given several examples which you just simply dismissed. Again... you didn't have a basic understanding of the situation.

How is that some newly established craft breweries take off and become successful, while others don't? That's because not all craft breweries make good beer (according to my palate, chill!), and I don't feel I need to support an inferior product simply because it's labeled a craft beer. Maybe some of you do!? ?

Ok. Not sure what this has to do with InBev in anyway and I don't remember anyone telling you that you need to support inferior craft breweries. Not sure what your point is.

This all kind of started by me saying that I will still buy Wicked Weed beers, because they make good beer!!!! I don't care who owns them.

Buy em. A ton of people will still buy Wicked Weed. I might be wrong but I am willing to bet that if we polled the folks on this entire site (and this thread specifically), very few people would care what beer you buy.

Whatever...AB has shady business practices, but good luck stopping them so why get your feathers ruffled by it? I tend to reserve my worries for more important matters.

That's so ridiculous, and speaks volumes all on its own, that I don't even to provide the counterpoint.

Some people probably want me to stop drinking Founder's, one of my favorite craft breweries, because they're technically no longer craft according to subjective arbitrary qualifiers.
.

Like I said above, I don't really think there are a material number of people who care what beer you buy.

Your response alone implies listening. I'm not trying to rally people...

Go hit the wall again bro!

https://accessphilanthropy.com/funders/anheuser-busch-foundation/ You're right they're monsters...

So... as long as someone gives to charity, any other activity they are involved in becomes acceptable? Interesting concept. So I rob a bank and walk away with $500k.... if I give... what? $50k (c'mon, that's TEN percent) to local charity... it's all good?

 

[Cape Brewing]

Not being a "craft beer" radical makes my position lack intelligent backing?

No, you not having a basic understanding of the situation makes you position lack intelligent backing. You asked what laws they had broken as if making the point that none had been. You were then given several examples which you just simply dismissed. Again... you didn't have a basic understanding of the situation.

How is that some newly established craft breweries take off and become successful, while others don't? That's because not all craft breweries make good beer (according to my palate, chill!), and I don't feel I need to support an inferior product simply because it's labeled a craft beer. Maybe some of you do!? ?

Ok. Not sure what this has to do with InBev in anyway and I don't remember anyone telling you that you need to support inferior craft breweries. Not sure what your point is.

This all kind of started by me saying that I will still buy Wicked Weed beers, because they make good beer!!!! I don't care who owns them.

Buy em. A ton of people will still buy Wicked Weed. I might be wrong but I am willing to bet that if we polled the folks on this entire site (and this thread specifically), very few people would care what beer you buy.

Whatever...AB has shady business practices, but good luck stopping them so why get your feathers ruffled by it? I tend to reserve my worries for more important matters.

That's so ridiculous, and speaks volumes all on its own, that I don't even to provide the counterpoint.

Some people probably want me to stop drinking Founder's, one of my favorite craft breweries, because they're technically no longer craft according to subjective arbitrary qualifiers.
.

Like I said above, I don't really think there are a material number of people who care what beer you buy.

Your response alone implies listening. I'm not trying to rally people...

Go hit the wall again bro!

https://accessphilanthropy.com/funders/anheuser-busch-foundation/ You're right they're monsters...

So... as long as someone gives to charity, any other activity they are involved in becomes acceptable? Interesting concept. So I rob a bank and walk away with $500k.... if I give... what? $50k (c'mon, that's TEN percent) to local charity... it's all good?

 

[GoeHaarden]

No, you not having a basic understanding of the situation makes you position lack intelligent backing. You asked what laws they had broken as if making the point that none had been. You were then given several examples which you just simply dismissed. Again... you didn't have a basic understanding of the situation.



Ok. Not sure what this has to do with InBev in anyway and I don't remember anyone telling you that you need to support inferior craft breweries. Not sure what your point is.



Buy em. A ton of people will still buy Wicked Weed. I might be wrong but I am willing to bet that if we polled the folks on this entire site (and this thread specifically), very few people would care what beer you buy.



That's so ridiculous, and speaks volumes all on its own, that I don't even to provide the counterpoint.




Like I said above, I don't really think there are a material number of people who care what beer you buy.





So... as long as someone gives to charity, any other activity they are involved in becomes acceptable? Interesting concept. So I rob a bank and walk away with $500k.... if I give... what? $50k (c'mon, that's TEN percent) to local charity... it's all good?

This is getting hilarious. I dont even know what were talking about anymore...

I guess if I had a brewery that was roughly the same age as Wicked Weed and I wasn't nearly as successful I'd be a little bitter about this topic too. Hell, i'd be frustrated and I'd probably blame someone for my own decision to enter this tough market as well. If you want to blame AB for your growth, then by all means.

The point I'm making is that Wicked Weed, and many others have gained tremendous success in this AB domintated market! Good beer and good business decisions can beat them!

Thanks for the education. I've learned a lot, honestly. You win. I just like getting people gased up sometimes, but I didn't mean to get your I apologize!

EDIT: I applaud your effort in the last post

 

[applescrap]

You could have saved yourself the trouble and read the first 400 posts where basically, every issue had been discussed and argued to a Bitter End. I was going to send this when this discussion started again but I appreciate that there were some new glimmers of knowledge.

 

[GoeHaarden]

You could have saved yourself the trouble and read the first 400 posts where basically, every issue had been discussed and argued to a Bitter End. I was going to send this when this discussion started again but I appreciate that there were some new glimmers of knowledge.

It's just too fun tho

 

[bleme]

I find the attitude of the Anti-Inbev crowd to be so abrasive that I think I lean the other way just so I'm not associated with them.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I find the attitude of the Anti-Inbev crowd to be so abrasive that I think I lean the other way just so I'm not associated with them.

Yup!

 

[TheMadKing]

Well judging from my hour wait for a table last night, they haven't really lost business, just respect in the brewing community. It was completely packed, and their beer was as good as always, especially over in the Funkatorium.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Well judging from my hour wait for a table last night, they haven't really lost business, just respect in the brewing community. It was completely packed, and their beer was as good as always, especially over in the Funkatorium.

You went and DRANK beer at a place owned by the devil? Dude, you just lost your home brew card, your HBT account is banned, and all your beers will turn to vinegar!

 

[applescrap]

Awesome to hear madking. Man I can't wait for the distribution, here. Anyways, as always, we are all on the same side here and if there's a time to take action, I'm sure many of us will. Some already have claiming, when the future arrives it will be too late to take action. For me rdwahahb

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

How many of the 5,000+ current breweries have production levels below of 500 bbls? How many are below 1,500 bbls?

You keep equating "breaking into the market" with a level, legal, and fair playing field... which... I think is ignorant and naive at best.

Yes, there are a ton of breweries popping up everywhere so "getting into the market", isn't the problem. The problem is when these small breweries start to grow in any way and can't get into tap accounts or shelf space, which stunts their growth dramatically, because InBev is a "necessary evil" by breaking the law and doing everything they can to lock craft breweries out of the market.

Only one counterpoint here...

There's only so much shelf space and so many tap lines available.

5000 breweries can't ALL get on the shelves. No matter what ABI does. There's not enough room.

I mean, you look at San Diego, a county with 125 breweries. How are all those breweries going to get onto supermarket (or even liquor store) shelves? They're not.

And that's okay.

I spent the holiday weekend in Napa/Sonoma, and the wine industry is somewhat of a good example. There are >8,000 wineries in the US. The vast majority of the industry is controlled by the "big guys", but there's still enough room for 8,000 wineries. Do 7,000 of those wineries think they're going to be the next Mondavi? No, not really. They're small-scale operations producing maybe a few thousand cases of wine per year. And yet they succeed. I visited wineries I've never heard of before, and ended up bringing home a little over a case of assorted wine from my visits (and yes, a case of half Pliny and half Blind Pig )

We as craft beer fans need to stop assuming that all of these breweries are being locked out of being "the next Ballast" or "the next Stone". There's only so much room for breweries to exist at that scale. But the US market will undoubtedly support more breweries than wineries, because as the market develops, the market will support it. Maybe not on every supermarket shelf, but little neighborhood breweries or decent-sized brewpub restaurants can easily exist all over the nation alongside ABI and The High End without ANY difficulty.

We should fight where we need to fight. We should fight any attempt by ABI to create laws which benefit them at the expense of the small brewers. We should fight for self-distribution rights that bypass three-tier for small breweries (as we have in CA, one of the few states w/o the three-tier system and independent breweries are thriving). We should fight for a robust independent brewing scene.

But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that every 500-bbl brewery has the capability to become a 5,000-bbl brewery if only ABI would get out of the way. That's not going to happen. What we should do is cheer those 500-bbl breweries and continue visiting them and enjoying their beers even if Wicked Weed gets nationwide distribution.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Only one counterpoint here...



There's only so much shelf space and so many tap lines available.



5000 breweries can't ALL get on the shelves. No matter what ABI does. There's not enough room.



I mean, you look at San Diego, a county with 125 breweries. How are all those breweries going to get onto supermarket (or even liquor store) shelves? They're not.



And that's okay.



I spent the holiday weekend in Napa/Sonoma, and the wine industry is somewhat of a good example. There are >8,000 wineries in the US. The vast majority of the industry is controlled by the "big guys", but there's still enough room for 8,000 wineries. Do 7,000 of those wineries think they're going to be the next Mondavi? No, not really. They're small-scale operations producing maybe a few thousand cases of wine per year. And yet they succeed. I visited wineries I've never heard of before, and ended up bringing home a little over a case of assorted wine from my visits (and yes, a case of half Pliny and half Blind Pig )



We as craft beer fans need to stop assuming that all of these breweries are being locked out of being "the next Ballast" or "the next Stone". There's only so much room for breweries to exist at that scale. But the US market will undoubtedly support more breweries than wineries, because as the market develops, the market will support it. Maybe not on every supermarket shelf, but little neighborhood breweries or decent-sized brewpub restaurants can easily exist all over the nation alongside ABI and The High End without ANY difficulty.



We should fight where we need to fight. We should fight any attempt by ABI to create laws which benefit them at the expense of the small brewers. We should fight for self-distribution rights that bypass three-tier for small breweries (as we have in CA, one of the few states w/o the three-tier system and independent breweries are thriving). We should fight for a robust independent brewing scene.



But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that every 500-bbl brewery has the capability to become a 5,000-bbl brewery if only ABI would get out of the way. That's not going to happen. What we should do is cheer those 500-bbl breweries and continue visiting them and enjoying their beers even if Wicked Weed gets nationwide distribution.

All I'll add is thats we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking the millions of dollars ABI had already racked up in fines (and continue to rack up), are for harmless little acts that don't have an effect on craft breweries. That, and this argument of "whatta ya mean? There are a ton of craft breweries. It can't be a big deal", is ridiculous.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I was watching a documentary on craft beer and they featured a group here in Colorado (Black Shirt Brewing) and they said you can self-distribute here in Colorado. I did not know that and it's pretty cool.

They were addressing sales to liquor stores but I'm going to assume it's the same rule(s) for bars and restaurants.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Massachusetts allows for self-distribution as well.

The issue is when there is a fight for the above-mentioned tight shelf-space and one competitor breaks the law by doing things like "donating" entire beer coolers which they then expect to have serious say as to what can and can not go into them. That's what ABI is facing charges for in Mass.

 

[lschiavo]

there's still enough room for 8,000 wineries. Do 7,000 of those wineries think they're going to be the next Mondavi? No, not really. They're small-scale operations producing maybe a few thousand cases of wine per year. And yet they succeed. I visited wineries I've never heard of before, and ended up bringing home a little over a case of assorted wine.

Nailed it! Replace wine with beer and you are describing my ultimate vision of craft beer.

I don't think most of those wineries go into business thinking they will take over the world or see a huge payday someday. I think they enjoy making a quality product and a living at the same time.

 

[Edcculus]

Hey guys, Its been a while since I've been active on the forums, but this made me think of you.

The WW buyout has been a huge topic where I live (only 45 min from Asheville). My friends had 2 of the owners on their podcast a few weeks ago.

You can listen to it here
http://www.citizenearthmedia.com/?p=1156

or search for Citizen Earth on your favorite pod-catching platform.

This isn't a plug for their podcast or anything, they just are not a beer podcast and I thought a lot of you may be interested in hearing what they had to say.

 

[applescrap]

Ab stopped canning beer to can only water in Houston. They also apparently stock pile water cans which they have on the ready that they use for American emergencies. Not that anyone could tell the difference between their water and beer.