A new way to discuss Fermentation and Yeast

[MalFet]

MalFet- you of all people should agree with me as look at what that thread went on to be and how many of the OP's questions got answered when you engaged in some conversation outside of "your airlock is not a fermentation gauge and just leave your beer alone."

To be honest, I didn't make the connection that you were the person arguing with Revvy in that thread until just now. And to be further honest, I found both of you rather grating in there. But the fabulous thing: the new brewer got all the information he needed despite your bickering because he was able to tune-out what wasn't useful to him (i.e., your bickering) and tune-in what was (i.e., instructions to take a gravity reading, followed by an explanation of what he was seeing).

Revvy has strong opinions, and he voices them in a...unique...way. I have only ever had positive interactions with him personally, but I can understand why he might rub someone the wrong way. Fixing that is not your job. If people don't find what he says useful, they can ignore it. Or they can embrace it. I've seen both many, many times.

I actually really liked your original post, even though I disagreed with some of the specifics in it. You seem committed to helping people. Since then, your tone has gotten nasty and this thread has become about personal vendetta. You are losing your allies here, one by one.

Edit: beat to the punch by PVH and Yooper.

 

[COLObrewer]

Holy mother of multi-quote posting thread about RDWHAHBing, I'm off to RDWHAHB now. Cuz I'm a RDWHAHBer, R . . . . D . . . . . W . . . . H . . . . . A . . . . . . H. . . . . .B . . . . . .i . . . . . . n . . . . .g . . . . . I . . . . . . . w . . . .i . . . l . . . . . l . . . . .g . . . . . . . .o . . . . .o . . . . . o . . . . o . . . . o . . . .

 

[MalFet]

Maybe you are right. I guess I just have never really cared about my reputation. I have never been afraid to speak up and call people out when I see something I don't agree with. I thought maybe more people would be open to a more civil way to treat new brewers and their questions as repetitive as they may be. I have thouroughly been proven wrong.

You pain me by saying this kind of stuff, because I want to be backing you on this. But this is what I am talking about. The issue is not that people "aren't open to a more civil way to treat new brewers". RDWHAHB vs. pedagogy ceased to be at stake here ages ago. The issue is that you seem to be reflexively translating any objections about what you are saying into close-mindedness, arrogance, and snobbery every step of the way.

Yooper more or less just agreed with your initial point, and she has made that point many times before. Plus, she's a moderator, so her opinion about how this board should be run has some traction. And yet...check out Revvy's signature some time. It is not necessary that we all agree on everything here, but you can't just pick a fight every time you don't like what you see. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

MSB, let me change my answer I posted above. I don't thing your way of answering a newbie question is wrong. I think it's a good way. I also don't thing my way is wrong. If I was a newb I think it would be a good thing to find someone telling me not to worry and relax and another person going into details and the science of brewing. They are both good ways to answer the "bubbler question".

 

[Airborneguy]

Now that I know this whole thread was really started to address a personal issue with another poster - who answers beginners' questions every single day - I'm satisfied that the OP was just looking to blow some hot air.

 

[Stardust]

... I thought maybe more people would be open to a more civil way to treat new brewers and their questions as repetitive as they may be..

It is evident from your opening statements that you are passionate about a more complete way to answer new brewer's questions about yeast and the fermentation cycle.

I'd suggest using only questions 2,3, & 4 initially and dropping the bit about the stirplate. The other questions can follow once the person asking for help gets an understanding that each yeast strain behaves differently in varying circumstances. You could even reword like so (to keep it simple for the new brewer):

1. Did you use Dry or Liquid yeast?
2. What strain was it?
3. Did you use a starter?

 

[MachineShopBrewing]

To MalFet, PVH, Yoop, scooby...

I apologize for getting a little heated earlier and for letting Airborne make me mad and take this thread in a direction other than where I was intending it to go. I think new brewers are not complete idiots. Heck, they have chosen to brew beer! That speaks volumes to how smart they are already. I think new brewers deserve a little more credit than they get. I think most can handle some basic questions about how they made the beer they are asking a question about without people having to get snarky about it. MalFet, you were a shining example in the other thread that I talked about, showing a good way to engage someone who had a question. I don't even think that person was that new to brewing anyway, they just had a question about something that was strange and they had never seen before.


I

'd suggest using only questions 2,3, & 4 initially and dropping the bit about the stirplate. The other questions can follow once the person asking for help gets an understanding that each yeast strain behaves differently in varying circumstances. You could even reword like so (to keep it simple for the new brewer):

1. Did you use Dry or Liquid yeast?
2. What strain was it?
3. Did you use a starter?

You may be right. I was just trying to throw some items out there and have a civil discussion about it. Also, some of these questions are not always from new brewers who are doing their first batch, and some people can handle these questions. I had faith in the community that we would be able to determine how much information someone could handle at one time by engaging them in discussion on this forum. If someone gets blown away by too much info, it is easy for one of us to tell them relax at that point and work with them at their own pace. But, to my main point earlier, how can someone determine how much information someone can handle without asking them?

 

[wolverinebrewer]

But, to my main point earlier, how can someone determine how much information someone can handle without asking them?

Let the OP dictate that. Usually the OP will get 10,20, or 30 responses. Some will contain lengthly answers and like Yooper said, some will be cliff notes. But when the OP gets all of the info he/she needs, the questions will stop. That is all you can do.

 

[Yooper]

Maybe you are right. I guess I just have never really cared about my reputation. I have never been afraid to speak up and call people out when I see something I don't agree with. I thought maybe more people would be open to a more civil way to treat new brewers and their questions as repetitive as they may be. I have thouroughly been proven wrong.

Well, a wise man once gave me good advice about arguing on the internet. It's not a PC phrase, so I won't repeat it- but it stands as good advice in this forum.

But I think discussion and disagreements are good.

I like to think of this forum as my neighborhood pub. Some people I adore, some I tolerate, some I don't care much for. But there is a stool at the bar for them all, and I can sit with whomever I want.

Personal attacks and namecalling are never allowed. Snide remarks aren't tolerated either. But the moderation is for the moderators to decide. If something is out of line, please report it and let us deal with it. Arguing isn't going to "win" anything here.

 

[Gitana]

Well, a wise man once gave me good advice about arguing on the internet. It's not a PC phrase, so I won't repeat it- but it stands as good advice in this forum.

Come on! Give us a clue at least. Others might know, but I'm completely lost...

 

[MalFet]

Come on! Give us a clue at least. Others might know, but I'm completely lost...

use the power of google

 

[Gitana]

use the power of google

got it thanks