A homebrewer alcoholic?

[drainbamage]

I think being a beer geek/HBer can put people in a dangerous place, because it can be very easy to hide a serious problem behind an appreciation for the taste of beer, or the history, or the science of the brewing process. Most people assume that alcoholics will go for the cheapest swill possible, so people like us that throw down large sums of money on beer and brewing equipment surely couldn't afford to be alcoholics!

As for my own experience, the thought of dependence does occasionally creep into my mind. I generally fall in line with the "1-2 a day, slightly more on the weekends" crowd, but there have been a few times where I've let my consumption rates climb up gradually (usually while going through hard times of some sort). It hasn't ever reached the point of violence, legal trouble or inability to work, but I've had to make a conscious decision to cut back.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I think being a beer geek/HBer can put people in a dangerous place, because it can be very easy to hide a serious problem behind an appreciation for the taste of beer, or the history, or the science of the brewing process. Most people assume that alcoholics will go for the cheapest swill possible, so people like us that throw down large sums of money on beer and brewing equipment surely couldn't afford to be alcoholics!

As for my own experience, the thought of dependence does occasionally creep into my mind. I generally fall in line with the "1-2 a day, slightly more on the weekends" crowd, but there have been a few times where I've let my consumption rates climb up gradually (usually while going through hard times of some sort). It hasn't ever reached the point of violence, legal trouble or inability to work, but I've had to make a conscious decision to cut back.

Good point. I will say though that friends and family will still really notice. A family member of mine drinks nothing but good scotches and wine and we all know and tell him that he overdoes it. True, the availability and hobby part of it can disguise it pretty well instead of being in the "Whatever gets me from Point A to Point Drunk" mindset.

 

[splattsmier]

I'd say I've done the same as drain.bramage here. I usually have 1-2 most days of the week, but every now and then for whatever reason it can gradually grow and I have to make a conscious effort to cut back to the 1-2 a day. The most recent occurance was when I started swapping beers and getting more in the mail than I could healthily consume (not a bad problem I suppose, per se). I was (and still am a couple times the last couple weeks) having 3-5 on a weeknight just trying different beers.

I guess what I'm getting at is that having it run in my family, along with my love and passion for beer and brewing/fermentation, makes me watch my consumption pretty closely. And I still worry sometimes. I guess I'd agree with the other members and say if you really think there is an issue, quit for a set amount of time and see how you feel.

Just remember not to be afraid of asking for help from those you care about. I'm sure they'd be happy to help you through. We all need a hand every now and then

 

[carton132]

Spoken like a true woman.

Heh. Actually, I'm a man. You've made my point for me, though, by assuming that only a woman would grow tired of hearing men harp about the dangers of domineering women. Thanks for the help. I'm assuming you had a bad relationship with your mom or an ex-wife, and I'm very sorry about that, but comments like this and your previous are so unwelcoming to female brewers. That last one? Probably the most inflammatory comment I've seen on here. Frankly, it shouldn't be tolerated on this board, and maybe we'd have more women participating here if they weren't constantly called nags. It's not funny, it's not accurate, and it's extremely unoriginal. Before you try to suggest that I must be gay (Based on your opinions about gender norms I have a feeling that one is coming next!), I happen to have a great wife who loves beer, supports my hobbies and has a separate checking account so we can't keep track of what each other are spending on for fun. I also regularly go as long as a year without getting a haircut, rarely shave and, get this, she even likes the way I smell when I haven't showered in a couple of days. They really aren't all so bad, I promise! I'd suggest you try to get over some of your anger issues and maybe you'll meet the right one, too. Best of luck.

 

[carton132]

Sorry to go off-topic, guys, this is a good thread to have around and have discussion in.

 

[dobe12]

I'm dependent on my taps working whenever I give'em a pull!

Just trying to add some humor back into the thread. In all seriousness I think alcoholism is specific to each individual. I'm sure most of us can go home, have a beer or two, and stop. Others have a beer or two and just have to go grab that third, then forth, and so on. Some people can drink 4-5 drinks a day and function perfectly. Does that make them alcoholics? I don't know. What about the college student who goes out on the occasional weekend and downs 10-12 beers and gets so hammered that he/she can't remember how they got home? Is he/she an alcoholic?

I have a beer or two every night. I drink because I like the taste of beer, but also to relax after a long day. Does that make me an alcoholic? Again, I don't know. I don't think so, but I'm sure there is a doctor somewhere who says the fact that I have a beer or two to "relax" is a sign of dependency. I don't see it that way, but someone else surely does.

Personally I feel that if it's interfering with your or your families life, it's a problem. If not, enjoy!



PS: I too hate to hear the remarks made about woman ruling her man's life. If that's the situation you find yourself in, well then find a way out. My wife fully supports my brewing. She has never once told me I couldn't brew or buy some piece of equipment I wanted. She actually bought me my starter kit, my dual tap tower for my kegerator, and most recently a grain mill. She also doesn't tell me what to do and when to do it.... but if she did, I'd take it under consideration out of respect. Because that's what we both have, respect for each other. It sounds like others on here my not have that same luxury with their significant other.

 

[mbobhat]

For those who are alcohol dependent, I do apologize, so, take this with the spirit with which it's intended.

I look at it this way, it's actually the beer that depends on me. If I don't mix grains and water, boil it with hops, add yeast and ferment it, it can't exist. So it's my job to bring beer to life. I just have to drink it to let it finish the job.

Honestly, I've asked myself this question before and to prove myself not dependent. I usually go a week or two without drinking, just to make sure it really is the taste I enjoy and not the effect it has on me. So far, it has been easy for me to prove that I am the one in control, not the beer.

In all seriousness though, if you really do feel it's becoming an issue, take the time to prove to yourself that the beer doesn't control you, if it does control you, please seek help, there is no reason to be ashamed of that.

As I read this I thought about what I heard this morning with people that have spending problems. They said try drawing everything you spend money on. I would think that similar to that you have to do a lot of work to keep that dependency going. Still combined with regular drinking commercial beers it can creep up on you. Granted as I've gotten older I don't go to the bar as much, and only really drink beer, but I could see it being an issue if I didn't have a good support system. For the record brew and drinkin buddies can be a great support system as well as long as you know your limits

 

[beersk]

If I have a real problem with anything, it is pizza. I might actually go insane and hurt someone if I don't get pizza once or twice a week.

Funny that you say that as I have said the same thing before to my girlfriend. I'll have pizza for 3 or 4 days in a row for lunch or dinner; never more than once a day. So I really do try to cut back on my pizza consumption regularly and try to only eat it once or twice a week. I fail at that some weeks...

Beer, however, I've questioned whether I'm dependent at one time or another and sometimes set rules like 1 beer a night on weekdays or something. I always end up being depressed on some nights when I want a second beer. I do definitely have a sub-conscience though that reminds me that I'm drinking more than I should. I mean, I do definitely drink a fair amount, but never is it problematic. I'll have 2 or 3 most nights and maybe a little more on weekends. But it's always with responsibility! Always.
The only time beer pisses me off is if I come home and have one, even just a little sample, it kills my productivity for the rest of the night. So I try not to have beer until later in the evening when I'm ready to just sit down and relax.

But there are those days in the summer where a friend and I bike 10 miles to a good beer bar after work (4pm) and have several there and sometimes come home and drink more homebrew. I don't think of any of that as a problem, so long as it's done with responsibility.

I rarely take days off from any beer at all. My stepdad's brother once said to me and I love this guy a ton: "I never drink so much beer that I can't drink beer the next day."
I just love that quote and try to live by it. Sometimes failing, unfortunately...

 

[Renoun]

Since people are discussing quantities I just wanted to post a link that describes a standard drink in terms of quantity and ABV. If your glass is larger than 12oz or your beer is stronger than 5%ABV you might find this calculator handy if you are going to look at the various guidelines and recommendations.

What is a Standard Drink?

 

[mrduna01]

Thank you for all of the input, this has been a good thread with good discussion so far. I for one have focused on getting back in the gym this week to focus my mind on other things (currently at my lowest weight in probably 8 years after recently being diagnosed with diabetes), and have committed to only drinking on the weekends. Not drinking this week has not been at all hard and I've been sleeping like a baby so its been a good thing.

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[hachi-roku_fan]

I've dealt with this label before from my mom. She had a brother who would show up drunk all the time, had a few DUIs, and the sort. The minute I headed off to college at Ucsb, I was considered a party animal and bordering alcoholic. And while I did have my fair share of fun, I was never dependent on it to have fun. I moved back to LA, only to find the label coming up if I sip on my second beer while my brother chugged his third. Who knows why my mom was so protective of me, maybe she saw some of her brothers tendencies in me. I've called her out on it but it makes no difference, so out of respect I just don't drink in front of her now.

I only drink on the weekends with a rare exception. I do like my whiskey but I won't let myself go to the point where I can't walk myself out looking like a wreck. Although I just started brewing, I'm sure I'm going to give away most of my brew to friends.

I also have a friend who recently confessed that he feels like he might have an issue with drinking, so I want to thank you guys for bringing this up, might give me the extra push to try to help him out more


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[DrunkleJon]

I've dealt with this label before from my mom. She had a brother who would show up drunk all the time, had a few DUIs, and the sort. The minute I headed off to college at Ucsb, I was considered a party animal and bordering alcoholic. And while I did have my fair share of fun, I was never dependent on it to have fun. I moved back to LA, only to find the label coming up if I sip on my second beer while my brother chugged his third. Who knows why my mom was so protective of me, maybe she saw some of her brothers tendencies in me. I've called her out on it but it makes no difference, so out of respect I just don't drink in front of her now.

I only drink on the weekends with a rare exception. I do like my whiskey but I won't let myself go to the point where I can't walk myself out looking like a wreck. Although I just started brewing, I'm sure I'm going to give away most of my brew to friends.

I also have a friend who recently confessed that he feels like he might have an issue with drinking, so I want to thank you guys for bringing this up, might give me the extra push to try to help him out more


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The best thing you can do for your buddy is be supportive. Do not drink around him if he feels the need to quit, and try to arrange some non drinking events and stuff to do together. I know that with most of my friends, most activities and outings are drinking related.

 

[Kee]

I find most people think the amount they drink is just fine, but anyone who drinks more than they do is an alcoholic. Hypocrisy![/QUOTE]

I remember George Carlin saying (referring to driving) that an idiot is someone who drives slower than you and a fool is someone who drives faster than you.

 

[Kee]

Just like the joke about how fast you are driving.

Anyone driving slower than you is an A-hole and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac

I didn't read this before posting almost the same thing!

 

[hachi-roku_fan]

The best thing you can do for your buddy is be supportive. Do not drink around him if he feels the need to quit, and try to arrange some non drinking events and stuff to do together. I know that with most of my friends, most activities and outings are drinking related.

I'm going to give that a try since his girlfriend wants to have a game night with me and my wife, but it's hard when he brings the beer himself.


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[mtnagel]

I find most people think the amount they drink is just fine, but anyone who drinks more than they do is an alcoholic. Hypocrisy!

I remember George Carlin saying (referring to driving) that an idiot is someone who drives slower than you and a fool is someone who drives faster than you.

Thanks. I couldn't remember who it was

 

[fuelish]

Coming at this from a totally different perspective, as a floor nurse, night shift at our local hospital....if you're admitted to the hospital for ANY reason, be truthful about your alcohol and/or drug use upon admission assesment....we have folks lie all the time about it. Withdrawing from drugs, you could wish you were dead...withdrawal from alcohol, you could end up dead - yeah, it's worse than drugs as far as withdrawal. Help is out there and the truth is your friend, as painful/shameful as it may seem to admit to..... 1 or 2 beers a day, you should be OK....more than that, you'll have CIWA protocol in place to help manage the situation....just saying. Drink responsibly and enjoy this ancient hobby

 

[DrunkleJon]

Coming at this from a totally different perspective, as a floor nurse, night shift at our local hospital....if you're admitted to the hospital for ANY reason, be truthful about your alcohol and/or drug use upon admission assesment....we have folks lie all the time about it. Withdrawing from drugs, you could wish you were dead...withdrawal from alcohol, you could end up dead - yeah, it's worse than drugs as far as withdrawal. Help is out there and the truth is your friend, as painful/shameful as it may seem to admit to..... 1 or 2 beers a day, you should be OK....more than that, you'll have CIWA protocol in place to help manage the situation....just saying. Drink responsibly and enjoy this ancient hobby

Good point. My uncle passed due to the DT's. He told his doctor that he quit and collapsed in the middle of the night while admitted for other related issues.

 

[BWE]

Didn't read every post so I hope I'm not posting the same thing someone else did. But alcoholism is an interesting concept. If you asked 20 what an alcoholic is, then you would get 20 different answers. I am man enough to admit that to some extent I am one. I love not only the taste of the beer but the feeling I get from it.

Now, that being said I have rules for myself. I will NOT drive if I've had any at all. Will not do it. I will not carry my son if I feel I have trouble walking on my own. I will not get drunk to drink away sorrows or if I'm upset about something. And I will not drink more than 4-5 if I have a big day the next day.

Not only that, I work away from home on a boat where I cannot drink at all for 4 weeks. Does the fact that I can't drink for 4 weeks make me a non alcoholic? No. I am what you call a functioning alcoholic. But if you like to get drunk or even buzzed, I would say you have some form of alcoholism weather mild or sever, whether you want to admit it or not. And you know what? There is nothing wrong with it as long as you don't drive, or let it get in the way of your family.

 

[dlester]

I think we all fall into a category of light drinker with a drink once in a while, medium drinker on a daily basis or every other day but catch a buzz, and the out of control drinker that can't stop at a couple or few beers. This was clear when a bunch of monkeys on a resort Island on some history channel, or the sort, were stealing mixed alcohol beverages. Some drank a bit, some came by got a buzz and left, then there were those that drank until they fell down.

Are we genetically predispositioned by genetics? I know I'm the medium drinker. I like a few beers every night and like a small buzz. I got in trouble from drinking too much in the past, so cut back. However, don't ask me to quit.

The way I cured serious drinking to point of being too much is drinking only beer and sometimes a shot of whisky. So I clearly believe I'm in the middle with the aptitude to go too far once in a while.

Is there anyone that would agree, or am I just too naive?

PS. I think just because we drink, catch a buzz or over do it once in a while doesn't make you or me an alcoholic. I think with the institution of AA and other organisations that over sell their "service" makes everyone paranoid. And, make everyone that wants to catch a buzz an alcoholic. This is simply not true. However, some of us need to be honest with our habits. Again, I come from the "medium" drinkers.


Cheers

 

[hedge_87]

My Grandfather is a recovering alcoholic. After my grandma Died he crawled in a bottle and has just recently came back out after 8 years of TRUE alcoholism. the turning point for him was when he started going blind. we took him to the hospital where the doctors put him through a "detox" program for 2 weeks. fast forward 2 years later and he is still sober and his health and cognitive ability has improved 1000%.
Having said that the alcoholism is a question I ask myself all the time. I've found that although there are weeks where I drink 6+ more per day. There are also weeks where I go without any alcohol at all. My biggest fear is my mode swings. I never noticed it but my wife has. She tells me that although I am what she calls a "happy drunk" the next day (until I had more alcohol) I am "difficult" to deal with. However when I'm on my sober week Im very open minded and much easier to deal with. I personally think my biggest problem is "peer" pressure. I can not turn down an offer to go have a beer after work.

 

[splattsmier]

My Grandfather is a recovering alcoholic. After my grandma Died he crawled in a bottle and has just recently came back out after 8 years of TRUE alcoholism. the turning point for him was when he started going blind. we took him to the hospital where the doctors put him through a "detox" program for 2 weeks. fast forward 2 years later and he is still sober and his health and cognitive ability has improved 1000%.
Having said that the alcoholism is a question I ask myself all the time. I've found that although there are weeks where I drink 6+ more per day. There are also weeks where I go without any alcohol at all. My biggest fear is my mode swings. I never noticed it but my wife has. She tells me that although I am what she calls a "happy drunk" the next day (until I had more alcohol) I am "difficult" to deal with. However when I'm on my sober week Im very open minded and much easier to deal with. I personally think my biggest problem is "peer" pressure. I can not turn down an offer to go have a beer after work.

From one easily persuaded guy to another - tread lightly, friend. Although, I think not having many friends around right now (we recently moved) has lead to more "heavy" nights in than out. Something I'm currently wrestling with to regain control. Maybe I should give a hiatus a try...my next batch wont be ready to drink for a few weeks, it's as good a time as any right?

 

[jrgtr42]

this is a topic that has come up a bunch here and on a couple of other beer forums that I belong to.
I have thought about it myself reading these threads, and I came to the conclusion I am a drinker, but not alcoholic. I do have a beer most nights, mostly just one. I may have a bomber sometimes, but I usually hold those for weekends. Occasionally during the week, but not often.
I had a Firestone Pivo Pils tonight. I opened it when dinner was ready, about 8:00, and just now finished it around 10:15. I know that in itself doesn't mean anything.
I will go days and occasionally a week or 2 without drinking, and I don't miss it.
I have been questioned once, by a former roommate who projects a lot of things on others... Funnily enough, when he asked, I was drinking as little as I had in a long time, a period of months.
I will be slowing down a bit coming up, since at the end of March, early April my poor liver will be getting a bit of a workout - one beer fest the weekend of March 22 - 23 (Beer Advocate's Extreme Beer fest in Boston) the next weekend a cask fest in Boston (NERAX) and the week after that a wine tasting - 25 tables of 6 - 8 bottles per table (I stick to reds, and don't even try all of them, but it's still a long day...)
I will likely be knocking off completely during the weeks between those events.

 

[ScottG58]

Good post. I have many relatives who are alcoholic. I look after my dad who has had multiple hospitalizations for his alcoholism. My wife tells me if I become like that, she leaves.

The thought of me being an alcoholic terrifies me. I enjoy brewing. I have a kegerator. It's easy to have more than one.

Appreciate the reminder to tap the brakes.

 

[alexnova]

Found this story in one of my daily newsletters and this seemed like a good thread for it:

Vancouver Sun: Vancouver program teaches alcoholics to make their own booze

"The way the brewing program works is that Drinker’s Lounge members who are in good standing — meaning they regularly attend meetings — can get together in groups of four, throw $10 each toward a beer- or wine-making kit, and start the fermentation process with the help of a resident brewmaster. A month later, each of the brewers are free to take home five litres of their homemade booze."

 

[cjgenever]

To the OP, and those feel the same.

I feel you have taken the first and hardest step. Self Evaluation, and the acknowledgment that an issue is possible. I honestly hope that you have people in your life that will support you properly in the next step!

Like most things in life now, Communication will likely be the most important thing for you. Talk about your habits, feelings, and general thoughts surrounding Alcohol. If your thinking it, it's likely that those that care about you have also thought about it as well. Open up to those that you trust, and then trust their opinions! Don't try to do it alone!

Be Honest with yourself, Be Honest with those you trust most, and in the end do what is best for you and your loved ones.

Very good points. Someone who drinks responsibly (usually) stops when they reach too much. An alcoholic is like a freight train that simply gains momentum as the night progresses. The difference is

1) willingness to see one's own faults

2) the strength to understand the truth

Most alcoholics are self medicating for reasons they know not. It the deep subconscious b.s. from past (unpleasant) experiences that typically drives the need to loose ones self in the mindlesness of substance use. It is the moment of no worry that addicts are chasing. One can never escape such a fate without being self aware and honest with themselves. I did. I still brew. I still drink a beer now and again. Sometimes I get a buzz. Sometimes I only drink one for the enjoyment. Sometimes I get completely blitzed. But I always am reasonable and never forget why I am working so hard to be reasonable with my choices.

Alcoholism is NOT a disease. It is a result of mental health issues and calling it a disease is a dis-service to all those afflicted.

AA.works because it gives people a place to belong and SHARE. It is a release just like getting drunk. IT IS A CRUTCH. I had issues with substance abuse. Alcohol became my substance of choice. I tried AA, but was PAINFULLY difficult to digest. Some meetings were more godly than a Catholic funeral. I ended up going sober for two years and talking with a therapist. Eventually I realized that all I ever needed was to share the things that made me want to 'zone out'. Turns out that they were things that I had mostly forgotten, or forced myself to forget. The only thing I had ever taken away from those experiences was anger. I now keep an open dialog with my wife and am responsible with my drinking.

I drink when I'm happy

I NEVER drink when I feel like I 'need' a drink.

I'm glad that the HBT community is so willing to openly deal with the issue of substance abuse.

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[beersk]

Very good points. Someone who drinks responsibly (usually) stops when they reach too much. An alcoholic is like a freight train that simply gains momentum as the night progresses. The difference is

1) willingness to see one's own faults

2) the strength to understand the truth

Most alcoholics are self medicating for reasons they know not. It the deep subconscious b.s. from past (unpleasant) experiences that typically drives the need to loose ones self in the mindlesness of substance use. It is the moment of no worry that addicts are chasing. One can never escape such a fate without being self aware and honest with themselves. I did. I still brew. I still drink a beer now and again. Sometimes I get a buzz. Sometimes I only drink one for the enjoyment. Sometimes I get completely blitzed. But I always am reasonable and never forget why I am working so hard to be reasonable with my choices.

Alcoholism is NOT a disease. It is a result of mental health issues and calling it a disease is a dis-service to all those afflicted.

AA.works because it gives people a place to belong and SHARE. It is a release just like getting drunk. IT IS A CRUTCH. I had issues with substance abuse. Alcohol became my substance of choice. I tried AA, but was PAINFULLY difficult to digest. Some meetings were more godly than a Catholic funeral. I ended up going sober for two years and talking with a therapist. Eventually I realized that all I ever needed was to share the things that made me want to 'zone out'. Turns out that they were things that I had mostly forgotten, or forced myself to forget. The only thing I had ever taken away from those experiences was anger. I now keep an open dialog with my wife and am responsible with my drinking.

I drink when I'm happy

I NEVER drink when I feel like I 'need' a drink.

I'm glad that the HBT community is so willing to openly deal with the issue of substance abuse.

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Great post. Thanks for sharing your journey.

 

[Psycotte]

I once asked an old guy (90+) what his secret to life was. Think it applies well to this topic.

"The key to life is moderation. Moderation in everything, including your moderation."

Think on that one for a minute.

 

[mrduna01]

I once asked an old guy (90+) what his secret to life was. Think it applies well to this topic.

"The key to life is moderation. Moderation in everything, including your moderation."

Think on that one for a minute.

Moderation is synonymous with self control... we could all learn from that!

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