A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[ajdelange]

The original post was written not to reflect solely my personal preference (which has always been 'less is better') but rather the general consensus at the time which was that tablespoons of salt (including chalk) made good beer. This was largely reflective of the British practice of Burtonisation practiced by many home brewers at the time. Since then as equipment and knowledge have grown many home brewers have branched off to brew lager beers as well many of which do rely on very soft water and so the consensus now seems to be that more brewers will find the beers acceptable with half the original amounts than with the original amounts. You will find this mentioned several times in the 1469 other posts in this thread but who has the time to read all them? If I could edit the OP I would put in a paragraph to the effect that recent practice suggests lower amounts of salt.

I'll just mention that a pet theory of mine is that the taste buds respond in the same way as the eye and the ear i.e. logarithmically and that halving the amount of salts will not, therefore, make a dramatic difference in taste buy it will make a discernable difference and, for most people, in the direction of improvement.

Yes, the object is to keep the calcium level constant when adding sulfate so that half of it would come from CaCl2 and half from CaSO4.

 

[kurds_2408]

Ajdelange I'm still confused. I get the point you're making about less . But the original post says 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. Then in your response to my question you say 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. Which would end up as more than the OP at 2&1/2 teaspoons per 5 gallons.

 

[ajdelange]

You have every right to be confused. I should have written 1/2 tsp per 5 gal. Sorry about that.

 

[ajdelange]

.

 

[kurds_2408]

Lol. Ok good. Thanks so much

 

[Miraculix]

You have every right to be confused. I should have written 1/2 tsp per 5 gal. Sorry about that.

The thing with teaspoons is, everybody's is sized differently. How much would that be in gram per liter for each of them?

 

[Miraculix]

Btw. Thanks for the continuous ongoing with this great read of a thread here!

I am starting with really soft bottled water and planning on doing an IPA ish pale ale or strong ale, or however you would call it. Would 80ppm calcium, 6ppm magnesium, 180 ppm sulfate, 18ppm chloride, 11ppm sodium and about 61ppm bicarbonate sound ok?

 

[ajdelange]

If, as the Primer intends, you are starting with RO water do not add any bicarbonate. It will do you no good and pull mash pH up when you actually want to pull it down. If, OTOH, you are tailoring existing water than has alkalinity of 1 mEq/L (~ 61 ppm bicarbonate) then you are considered lucky and don't have to worry about the alkalinity (other than to remember to add an extra mEq acid for each liter of the mash water).

 

[Miraculix]

If, as the Primer intends, you are starting with RO water do not add any bicarbonate. It will do you no good and pull mash pH up when you actually want to pull it down. If, OTOH, you are tailoring existing water than has alkalinity of 1 mEq/L (~ 61 ppm bicarbonate) then you are considered lucky and don't have to worry about the alkalinity (other than to remember to add an extra mEq acid for each liter of the mash water).

I use the uk Waitrose bottled water that comes in a 4 pack of 2l bottles, so I have no influence on the bicarbonate.

Sounds like you would say the other values are ok like they are? The values show the final water after adding gypsum and calcium chloride to the water.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, I think you will be fine.

 

[Miraculix]

Yes, I think you will be fine.

Ok, thanks. Than it will be 0.2g/l gypsum and 0.1g/l calcium chloride. I saw that my cousin level is quite low. What's the effect of sodium in brewing water?

 

[ajdelange]

Paired with chloride at low levels it sweetens. Try adding a wee bit of table salt to a glass of beer. Obviously at higher levels it starts to taste salty but look at the salt content of some of the carbonated water products sold. It is quite high and there, I believe, to offset the sourness of the carbonic acid.

 

[Miraculix]

Paired with chloride at low levels it sweetens. Try adding a wee bit of table salt to a glass of beer. Obviously at higher levels it starts to taste salty but look at the salt content of some of the carbonated water products sold. It is quite high and there, I believe, to offset the sourness of the carbonic acid.

Ok, could have eplained that to myself actually... Kind of the same thing it does to sweet stuff like cake and so on, a little bit is acting like a flavour enhancer, too much gets salty.

 

[Semicole]

Could someone explain the "add 2% sauermalz to the grist" part of this post? Does that mean I adjust my other malt/grain percentages in a given recipe to account for the 2% sauermalz that I add?

So say I am brewing this recipe for a 5.5 gallon batch:
6 lbs 2 row
2.5lb white wheat
.5lb flaked wheat
.25lb honey malt

How would I adjust that recipe to account for the 2% sauermalz?

 

[gromitdj]

Just add 2% of the total malt bill as Sauermalz. The way A.J. has explained it in the past, the difference either way is not significant enough to matter a great deal.

<snip>How would I adjust that recipe to account for the 2% sauermalz?

 

[Semicole]

Just add 2% of the total malt bill as Sauermalz. The way A.J. has explained it in the past, the difference either way is not significant enough to matter a great deal.

Ah ok that makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

 

[dmcmillen]

I have read the first few pages of this post, but not all, so I apologize upfront if I am asking what has already been covered; there's a few years of posts here.

1st of all, based on the initial water recommendations, I should be diluting my existing water profile of Alk 98 (Bicarb 119), So4 9, Cl 4, Na 28, Ca 9, and Mg 4 by 2:1 of DI water. Is that correct?

The recommendations of adding CaCl and/or Gypsum to a 5 gal batch for different styles, does that mean I split the addition proportionately between the mash water and the sparge water or is the addition intended for just the mash?

I do have a pH meter (MW102) and can perform a test mash. Before I came across this Primer post, I was planning on making the mash additions based on Bru'n Water recommendations and then adjusting accordingly or would it be better to make these primer additions to the test mash first, or not make any additons. I am assuming that Bru'n Water is pretty accurate at calculating desired mineral additions.

Right now, I'm just trying to figure out my initial starting point/approach to the chemisty will be when I start a new brew. So far my experience without doing a test mash is that I'm not even close to the estimated pH from Bru'n Water. (+- .2 -.3) which I now understand is not unusual at all. I suppose I went into the water chemistry thinking that this was an exact science; just plug the numbers into a spreadsheet of choice, add the recommendations and wallah, you hit your numbers. Well, after being sufficiently humbled, I believe I'm getting a better feel for the "science" and the "art", much of the art being what our individual tastes are. Most of that education I can thank AJ and his tireless devotion to this forum.

Maybe opening up a hornets nest here, but related to the subject of mineral additions, is there any value to targeting a mineral profile for a particular style or specific brew. Bru'n Water has a lot of different mineral profiles and you can find tons of these on the internet. How about the Sulfate to Chloride ratio? How important are the mineral levels compared to getting the pH right?

 

[NeoBrew]

I have read the first few pages of this post, but not all, so I apologize upfront if I am asking what has already been covered; there's a few years of posts here.

1st of all, based on the initial water recommendations, I should be diluting my existing water profile of Alk 98 (Bicarb 119), So4 9, Cl 4, Na 28, Ca 9, and Mg 4 by 2:1 of DI water. Is that correct?

The recommendations of adding CaCl and/or Gypsum to a 5 gal batch for different styles, does that mean I split the addition proportionately between the mash water and the sparge water or is the addition intended for just the mash?

I do have a pH meter (MW102) and can perform a test mash. Before I came across this Primer post, I was planning on making the mash additions based on Bru'n Water recommendations and then adjusting accordingly or would it be better to make these primer additions to the test mash first, or not make any additons. I am assuming that Bru'n Water is pretty accurate at calculating desired mineral additions.

Right now, I'm just trying to figure out my initial starting point/approach to the chemisty will be when I start a new brew. So far my experience without doing a test mash is that I'm not even close to the estimated pH from Bru'n Water. (+- .2 -.3) which I now understand is not unusual at all. I suppose I went into the water chemistry thinking that this was an exact science; just plug the numbers into a spreadsheet of choice, add the recommendations and wallah, you hit your numbers. Well, after being sufficiently humbled, I believe I'm getting a better feel for the "science" and the "art", much of the art being what our individual tastes are. Most of that education I can thank AJ and his tireless devotion to this forum.

Maybe opening up a hornets nest here, but related to the subject of mineral additions, is there any value to targeting a mineral profile for a particular style or specific brew. Bru'n Water has a lot of different mineral profiles and you can find tons of these on the internet. How about the Sulfate to Chloride ratio? How important are the mineral levels compared to getting the pH right?

Bru’n Water is pretty accurate. If you didn’t even get close something went wrong with either your entries or with your brewing. Double back and review your process to try to figure out what it is.

This thread is often mistaken for a water help thread. You should either choose the detailed route with bru’n water or the simple approach this thread gives you. Both can work.

 

[ajdelange]

Errors of ±0.2 - 0.3 are quite common with any of the popular spreadsheets/calculators as their models of the acid/base properties of the malts are primitive. Much of the time, however, they are better than that. At the same time I would not term ±0.2 or even maybe ±0.3 "not even close".

 

[00Seven]

I'm getting more into this. Next batch will start with RO and build up what I want. Question: what do you guys keep on hand as far as salts go? I have Gypsum and calcium chloride and tartaric acid. What else should I order to keep on hand? I don't mind spending 40-50 on salts and stuff if need be. Thanks

 

[Miraculix]

Maybe you want to add Epsom salt to it, but that should be about out.

I only have the two that you mentioned and did recently an experiment with the same wort, once with treatment and once without. I am convinced now that treatment somehow brings out positive aspects, at least in the hoppy lager I brewed. I will keep using those two salts with a focus on gypsum to bring the sulfate up to about 200 to 300 for my hoppy beers.

 

[perogi]

What else should I order to keep on hand?

Epsom Salt and non-iodized Calcium Chloride

Also recommend getting those little silica gel packets to keep the salts dry in their containers

 

[ajdelange]

In order of liklihood that you will actually use them:

1)Calcium chloride
2)Calcium sulfate
3)Sodium bicarbonate
4)Sodium chloride
5)Magnesium sulfate
6)Calcium hydroxide
7)Sodium hydroxide
8)Potassium hydroxide
9)Sodium sulfate
10)Magnesium chloride
11)Potassium chloride

The first 6 should cover almost everything. The latter 5 would be for those who obsess about getting within a percent ion concentration for a particular profile they have obtained somewhere.

Acids will be needed. In order of liklihood of use
1)Lactic
2)Phosphoric
3)Hydrochloric
3)Sulfuric
3)Blend of hydrochloric and sulfuric (AMS/CRS)
4)Citric

 

[leftcontact]

In order of liklihood that you will actually use them:

1)Calcium chloride
2)Calcium sulfate
3)Sodium bicarbonate
4)Sodium chloride
5)Magnesium sulfate
6)Calcium hydroxide
7)Sodium hydroxide
8)Potassium hydroxide
9)Sodium sulfate
10)Magnesium chloride
11)Potassium chloride

The first 6 should cover almost everything. The latter 5 would be for those who obsess about getting within a percent ion concentration for a particular profile they have obtained somewhere.

Acids will be needed. In order of liklihood of use
1)Lactic
2)Phosphoric
3)Hydrochloric
3)Sulfuric
3)Blend of hydrochloric and sulfuric (AMS/CRS)
4)Citric

Lactic and citric I get, but
Sulfuric, phosphoric, and HCl? Why do we use *those*?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Bru’n Water is pretty accurate. If you didn’t even get close something went wrong with either your entries or with your brewing. Double back and review your process to try to figure out what it is.

Or the DI pH of one or all of the grains have changed.

 

[ajdelange]

Lactic and citric I get, but
Sulfuric, phosphoric, and HCl? Why do we use *those*?

For the same thing as the other acids which is to neutralize the bases in the malts you use and to convert bicarbonate ion (main source of alkalinity) in your water to CO2 thus neutralizing its alkalnity:

HLac + HCO3- ---> H2O + CO2 + Lac-
H3Cit + 2HCO3- ---> 2H2O + 2CO2 + HCit--
H3PO4 + HCO3- ---> H2O + CO2 + H2PO4-
HCl + HCO3- ---> H2O + CO2 + Cl-
H2SO4 + 2HCO3- ---> 2H2O + 2 CO2 + SO4--

Thus the portion of the acid that goes to neutralizing alkalinity in the water substitutes its anion for the bicarbonate ion. In the case of lactic and citric we recognize that if too much alkalinity needs to be neutralized that we will wind up with lactate or citrate ions above their flavor thresholds and so do not use them for excessively alkaline waters. Phosphate is more flavor neutral so we generally don't worry about how much of it we use unless the water is so hard that precipitation of calcium phosphates is likely. With hydrochloric and sulfuric acids we recognize that the anions are both stylistic ions. Where we need to get rid of alkalinity (from water and/or malt) and, at the same time, want to increase chloride or sulfate content these acids are obvious choices (in places where they can easily be obtained in food grade).

 

[Waunabeer]

Forgive me if it was stated in one of the 38 pages, but where is the best place to get your water tested to see what amounts of minerals are in it? I have well water with a Gordon Water Filtration system installed and want to find out what's left in my water.

 

[gromitdj]

Forgive me if it was stated in one of the 38 pages, but where is the best place to get your water tested to see what amounts of minerals are in it? I have well water with a Gordon Water Filtration system installed and want to find out what's left in my water.

I believe that Ward Lab's is the consensus.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I've done 5 batches. First 2 extract partial boil, next one extract partial boil w campden tablets and late extract addition, next one full boil DME, next one grain BIAB. Now I'm diving into water profile and ordered lactic acid and various water additives after playing around with the Bru'n Water and EZ Water spreadsheets. I feel like I'm progressing pretty quickly, if I'm not making top quality beer soon I'll be pissed

My wife saw me looking at the water spreadsheets last night and asked if I'd made spreadsheets to log my beers. No did that a long time ago, I downloaded these to figure build the optimal salt/mineral profile in my brewing water. She gave me a weird look, not sure if she's impressed or worried

 

[VirginiaHops1]

double post..