A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[ajdelange]

The KISS principle says add all you salts to the entire volume of water being treated.

I answered the equivalence question in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=533660 just the other day. As it has been asked again here and as this hardly seems suitable for a KISS thread I've expanded on the answer in that other thread, qv.

 

[bcltoys]

The answer to your question is in #1 though I now tend to advise people to use half a teaspoon each of calcium chloride and gypsum per 5 gal. This is a good starting point for an IPA though you will have to adjust the sulfate (and perhaps the chloride as well) to give you the combination of effects from those ions that you like best which will depend on your personal tastes. The idea behind starting with half a tsp of each is that you can experiment with adding additional small amounts of these salts to the finished beer in the glass to see if you think more improves or degrades it.

So just start with a half a teaspoon of each per 5 gallons of distilled water and see how that goes. Sounds simple.

 

[EcuPirate07]

The answer to your question is in #1 though I now tend to advise people to use half a teaspoon each of calcium chloride and gypsum per 5 gal. This is a good starting point for an IPA though you will have to adjust the sulfate (and perhaps the chloride as well) to give you the combination of effects from those ions that you like best which will depend on your personal tastes. The idea behind starting with half a tsp of each is that you can experiment with adding additional small amounts of these salts to the finished beer in the glass to see if you think more improves or degrades it.

Let's say I pour a pint of my pale ale I just made following the 1/2 tsp rule, what would be a good measure to add to the pint to be able to visualize it in a 5g batch? I hope I'm asking this correctly. IE what amount would I add just to the pint and then how would I scale it because we are already working with minuscule amounts per 5g.

 

[TobyG]

One US pint is roughly 2.5% of a 5 gallon batch (16oz/640oz), so you would add 2.5% of the five gallon addition. So, if you were going to add 1/2 tsp to the 5 gallon batch (~2.5g), then you add 2.5% of that to a pint, effectively 0.0625g. You'll obviously need a pretty fine resolution scale.

 

[EcuPirate07]

One US pint is roughly 2.5% of a 5 gallon batch (16oz/640oz), so you would add 2.5% of the five gallon addition. So, if you were going to add 1/2 tsp to the 5 gallon batch (~2.5g), then you add 2.5% of that to a pint, effectively 0.0625g. You'll obviously need a pretty fine resolution scale.

Thanks for the insight, I think my scale will get me down to .06 so close enough.

 

[TobyG]

This is the one I have for that sort of thing. Only goes to mg, but very handy for those sorts of measurements.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012TDNAM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[copper2hopper]

Subscribed

 

[thekraken]

So I have always had bad efficiency, like low 60's. I have tried every trick I could find. The only thing I hadn't done because I didn't want to spend the money is try and monitor and adjust pH during the mash. I tried using my city water report and spreadsheets to adjust water profiles, I've tried spring water, always the same result. I gave this water recipe a shot yesterday and my efficiency magically shot up to 80%.

I know it's just one brew and I don't even know how it tastes yet but I'm happy with the result so far. Thanks AJ!

 

[phishie]

I will be brewing the following recipes this weekend with RO:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=290419

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=319619

and was planning to follow post #1's guidelines of 1 teaspoon (or even 1/2 teaspoon based on your recent recommendations) each of calcium chloride dihydrate and gypsum per 5 gallons. I'm a KISS-type person, do you think that will work well? Based on the ingredients in these recipes I wasn't sure if the sauermalz was necessary.

 

[Frazeart]

Hey everyone. Like the rest of you I ruminate endlessly about my mash PH and haunt this board for answers. I wanted to relay my experience and see if anyone had some wisdom to offer.

I am 2 years into brewing and have just finished my 54th brewday (I brew almost every other weekend). I do all grain brew in a bag and always use distilled water that I build on. I use a Milwaukee 102 PH meter and calibrate it before each brewday. I have brewed multiple styles from browns to hefes to pilsners to biere de gardes to berlinerweiss'. My efficiency is always 70% to 73%. My problem is that, when following the primer instructions for a baseline beer, i am routinely getting a PH in mash that is around 5 even. My only brews that have been in the 5.4 range have been ones that I omitted the saurmalz from entirely. Has anyone else had this experience? The solution seems to be just not using saurmalz but, I am puzzled why my experience differs. It should be basic (chemistry) math that is repeatable... Right?

 

[ajdelange]

No, there isn't a lot of repeatability as the malts that people use under the guidelines vary appreciably. Between the levels of high kilned malt in a dark beer (no sauermalz recommended) and a light beer (sauermalz recommended) is an infinigte continuum of colored malt mixes. Please remember that the Primer is a starting point and that you must experiment around it. You have done that discovering that some beers don't require sauermalz. Don't use it in those cases!

 

[Frazeart]

No, there isn't a lot of repeatability as the malts that people use under the guidelines vary appreciably. Between the levels of high kilned malt in a dark beer (no sauermalz recommended) and a light beer (sauermalz recommended) is an infinigte continuum of colored malt mixes. Please remember that the Primer is a starting point and that you must experiment around it. You have done that discovering that some beers don't require sauermalz. Don't use it in those cases!

Thank you for the response and for creating this primer. Great information.

 

[badlee]

Since taking AJ's advice(special help with citric acid) I have been brewing better beer.

I need help again with water additions for a RIS I shall be brewing this weekend,in order that I might be drinking it at Christmas.

Recipe: 8 litre batch
Weyermann pale 1.100kg 47%
Light Munich 0.750kg 28%
TF dark crystal .250kg 10%
Cane sugar .250kg 10%
Roasted Barley 0.100kg 3.7%
TF pale chocolate malt 0.100kg 3.7%

Looking at an og of 1.077-1.080

As my local water has been going through some changes of late,becoming less pleasing,I will be using 100% RO/UV water.

According to the primer I should use NO acidification,adding only the baseline of Calcium Chloride.

Should I be looking to add more than the baseline?

Should I be looking to add more salts?

Should I be looking to add baking soda to the mash?

Thanks in advance
Lee

 

[ajdelange]

According to the primer I should use NO acidification,adding only the baseline of Calcium Chloride.

Should I be looking to add more than the baseline?

Should I be looking to add more salts?

No, at least not the first time you brew this. As with any of these recommendations you must experiment to find the levels you ultimately come to consider the best.

Should I be looking to add baking soda to the mash?

No. Given that your high kilned malts amount to only 15% of the grist you should not need baking soda (or any other alkali).

 

[badlee]

Again @ajdelange,you are a legend.
Thanks a whole lot

 

[elproducto]

Sorry to ask, and this may be obvious but when using RO I will add 1tsp cacl per 5 gallons of water for baseline.

When adjusting for style do I add the minerals per 5 gallons still?

So for example British Beer would be: 1tsp cacl and 1 tsp gypsum per 5 gallons?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes and Yes.

 

[EcuPirate07]

So Im gonna try this Kentucku Common recipe tonight https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=290419 whats the water chemistry recommendations? Should I use the Tap or start with my RO and build it up? and how, assuming i'm doing a 5g batch. This is a unique beer to me so I'm kinda at a loss.

 

[roncruiser]

So Im gonna try this Kentucku Common recipe tonight https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=290419 whats the water chemistry recommendations? Should I use the Tap or start with my RO and build it up? and how, assuming i'm doing a 5g batch. This is a unique beer to me so I'm kinda at a loss.

I do not know the water chemistry recommendations for your brew, but I would start from an easy known base of water. Distilled or RO and build up from either of those two.

 

[moreb33rplz]

It's probably in this thread somewhere, but what are the 'typical' additions to RO for an IPA?

 

[roncruiser]

It's probably in this thread somewhere, but what are the 'typical' additions to RO for an IPA?

I'd start here and just play around with the calculator. Specifically the light and hoppy profile. That worked great for my Zombie Dust Clone. It was excellent.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

I've since moved on to Brunwater.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[thekraken]

No. You can do this with distilled water and calcium chloride. Malt contains quite a bit of minerals - enough to supply yeast and other enzymes with all the co factors they need. The exception would be zinc. Many brewers use a yeast nutrient for this reason.

My yeast has under-attenuated the last two times I've applied this primer to my brewing water. I'm trying to find the cause and one of my thoughts was possibly lack of nutrients as my previous tap water brews usually over-attenuated.

I picked up some wyeast nutrient blend. So should I just go by wyeast recommendations and add 1/2 tsp/5gallons in the boil? Or maybe it would be better in the starter?

This last batch stalled at around 1.025 (expected 1.016). This was a stout, the water recipe was simply 8.08 of R.O. water and ~1.6 tsp of CaCl. Here's the grain bill if you're interested (except I accidentally used black patent malt instead of black barley).

 

[mabrungard]

Adding a nutrient is a cheap insurance when using demineralized waters for brewing. I've only recently started including nutrient in all my brewing and haven't really noted much of a change, but it can't hurt. I do recommend that you add it to both starters and kettle to maximize the benefit. Don't overdose in the kettle since it might add off flavors from components such as zinc.

If you are under attenuating, the first place I would check is the mashing temperatures. At a minimum, it sounds like you can afford to reduce your temperatures by about 4F. I rarely mash at a temp of greater than 154F any more. Only the lowest gravity beers receive a temp above that.

 

[thekraken]

Adding a nutrient is a cheap insurance when using demineralized waters for brewing. I've only recently started including nutrient in all my brewing and haven't really noted much of a change, but it can't hurt. I do recommend that you add it to both starters and kettle to maximize the benefit. Don't overdose in the kettle since it might add off flavors from components such as zinc.

Will do, next batch will get some in the starter and kettle. I did want to mention what I read this morning from John Palmer: "Zinc acts as a catalyst and tends to carry over into the succeeding generation—therefore it is probably better to add it to either the starter or the main wort but not both." (source) I guess he is referring to just supplementing zinc by it self and not necessarily our yeast multivitamin?

If you are under attenuating, the first place I would check is the mashing temperatures. At a minimum, it sounds like you can afford to reduce your temperatures by about 4F. I rarely mash at a temp of greater than 154F any more. Only the lowest gravity beers receive a temp above that.

That could certainly be the culprit, this recipe called for a mash temp of 156F (I do maintain with RIMS)

 

[ColeVet67]

ok yall... im new to water additions.. and would like some advise.. i made a Scottish ale (80 Shilling) ... (also did the drain and carmelize/reduce first gal trick) with some water additions (first ever attempt) and 100% RO/Distilled water.. its a great beer and my friends really enjoyed, but i may have gottin it slightly off. The beer was Very malty which isnt bad.. but i found it to be really sweet for my tastes.. so i need to make some changes to that recipe.. but i digress..

a friend of mine wants to brew a DRY IRISH STOUT and i wanna make sure the additions i have planned will work out. Here is my plan/recipe:

est OG: 1.050, est FG: 1.015 (4.59% ABV)
IBU: 47.8 SRM: 38.1

6 lb Pale 2 row UK
2.25 lb Flaked Barley
11.5 oz Flaked Oats
1.25 Roasted Barley

2.75 oz EKG for 60 mins

1 vial WLP 004

water additions (mash only):
7 grams Cal Clor
7 grams Gypsum
1.25 grams baking soda

mash @ 154.5 for 70 min Est mash PH: 5.3
Batch sparge 100% RO/Distilled total PB Vol: 6.5G

so.. will this work.. ? should i change things.. ? will it gimme a very flavorful guinness type stout.. ?

 

[MandySwift]

Water counts for a good brewing result, and made a lot of detour as a new brewer. The PH should be strictly kept in the range from 5.1 to 5.5. That the basic science of brewing.

 

[mma]

This is my first post and I just wanted to say a big thank you to AJ and Martin for all the time you guys have put in on answering so many questions. It was a very long read to get here but it was worth it! This is my first all grain brew and I want to see what everyone thinks. I will start with RO water that has a TDS reading of 8. My Ph meter is broke and needs to be replaced with a new model so I dont know the Ph of the RO water I am buying is. Will the Calcium Chloride or the Gypsum need to be adjusted for this recipe. I haven't seen anyone ask about a Rye Ipa so I thought I would ask to be sure. Will Rye flavor be affected from these additions or am I good to go? My plan was to go with 1tsp of calcium chloride and 1 tsp of gypsum and 2% sauermalz.

Here is the recipe I am going to brew from EdWort.
All-Grain - Bee Cave Brewery Rye IPA
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Safale-0
Yeast Starter: Hydrated Dry
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5?
Original Gravity: 1.064
Final Gravity: 1.010
IBU: 67
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: SRM 9
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 10 days at 62-65 degrees
Additional Fermentation: Crash cool to 39 degrees for 3 days then keg
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): None
Tasting Notes: Spicy, malty, & very tasty!

BCB Rye IPA

This is a tasty, yet big beer at 7.2% abv. The flaked barley gives it incredible head retention and a cascading effect like a nitrogen pour.

10# 2 Row Pils
2# Rye
2# Vienna
12 oz. Crystal 60L
8 oz. Flaked Barley

1 oz. Tettnanger FWH 4.4% (First Wort Hopped)
1 oz. Chinook 60 min 12%
0.5 oz. Chinook 30 min 12%
0.5 oz. Chinook 5 min 12%

Mashed in at 154 degrees for 70 minutes. Ran off 7 gallons and boiled for 90 minutes.

 

[brevity]

I am mashing and batch sparging with 100% RO water.
I see the recommendation to skip acidulated malt or acid additions if using roasted malts. I am brewing a stout tomorrow and wondering if I should also skip adding acid to my sparge water as well?

 

[jwalk4]

Sorry in advance: stupid question in-coming!

When Delange mentions "baseline" water, is he talking 100% RO or Distilled? Or is he talking about a combo of tap and RO/Distilled to get the ion levels he discusses below:

The following recommendations apply to “soft” water. Here we will define soft as meaning RO or distilled water or any water whose lab report indicates alkalinity less than 35 (ppm as CaCO3 – all other numbers to follow mg/L), sulfate less than 20 (as sulfate – Ward Labs reports as sulfur so multiply the SO4-S number by 3 to get as sulfate), chloride less than 20, sodium less than 20, calcium less than 20 and magnesium less than 20. If your water has numbers higher than these, dilute it with RO or DI water. A 1:1 dilution reduces each ion concentration to 1/2, a 2:1 dilution to 1/3 and so on. If your water contains chloramines add 1 campden tablet per 20 gallons (before any dilution)

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

I guess what I am getting at here is can I simply add acidulated malt and calcium chloride to my brewing liquor? (I full volume mash)?

 

[Yooper]

Sorry in advance: stupid question in-coming!

When Delange mentions "baseline" water, is he talking 100% RO or Distilled? Or is he talking about a combo of tap and RO/Distilled to get the ion levels he discusses below:



I guess what I am getting at here is can I simply add acidulated malt and calcium chloride to my brewing liquor? (I full volume mash)?

"Here we will define soft as meaning RO or distilled water or any water whose lab report indicates alkalinity less than 35 (ppm as CaCO3 – all other numbers to follow mg/L), sulfate less than 20 (as sulfate – Ward Labs reports as sulfur so multiply the SO4-S number by 3 to get as sulfate), chloride less than 20, sodium less than 20, calcium less than 20 and magnesium less than 20."


If your water meets those guidelines, then yes.