A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

[NaymzJaymz]

Wow, this thread and all the resultant comments have been a facsinating head trip for me. I'm trying to get a grip on this subject. Can anyone suggest some basic references for beginning to understand this complicated subject? Then perhaps the content of this thread will be easier for me. I live in a rural area with very clean tasting tap water that tastes better than many bottled waters I've tasted. So far in my brewing(I'm very inexperienced), I've done a hefeweizen and a stout(both AG)with my home water using only the often mention 5.2 additive. Both beers took second place in a local competition with bcjp rules. Basically, I've been using the "relax, don't worry..." concept so far with a few lucky results(or maybe the results weren't lucky. Maybe most of the beers were just bad, including mine!) I guess what I'm asking is if there is a path you all could suggest for my learning the rudiments of water chemistry so I can understand the contents of a thread like this? This is a naive sounding question to most of you, but we all have to start somewhere. Thanks.

 

[MagicSmoker]

...
Check. I'll definitely be using RO for this next batch, and I have all the other supplies necessary to do the adjustments (including a pH meter and calibration solutions). I probably should brew the same recipe I've already done before to make this a more scientific test, but where's the fun in that?....

I just wanted to let the participants of this thread know that switching to RO water + salt and lactic acid additions has had an incredibly positive effect on my beer! The astringent and faintly soapy tones are finally gone and the hops bitterness and character are coming through better, too.

FWIW, I add the following to every gallon of RO water:

0.6g CaCl2; 0.6g CaSO4; 0.2g MgSO4; 0.15mL 88% Lactic Acid

I mash and dunk-sparge (sort of a quasi-BIAB process) with the same water. When I get around to making a stout I might dial back the lactic acid some (using my trusty Milwaukee MW-101 pH meter to confirm) but so far, so good.

 

[kopper]

Anyone have suggestion on how much lactic acid to add to RO/DI (not using sauermalz)?

RO/DI water is zero TDS with 7.82 pH (temp corrected with Hanna meter that I use for saltwater reef - gotta love crossover tools from other hobbies). Plan is to makeup 10g of water using 2 tsp calcium choride and whatever the lactic suggestion is to get me real close to where I need to be for baseline. Searched the forum and thread but didn't find what I was looking for although I'm sure it is lurking somewhere. WAG is a couple ml but curious to hear what other input is.

TIA!

 

[kopper]

Ok, so how the heck did I miss the suggestion right above my post? doh!

 

[NanoMan]

Just completed batch #60 since my enlightenment (read that, discovering this forum and this thread!). The numbers are dialing in very nicely. The Strong Blond had a mash pH, pre-boil pH, post-boil pH and OG at 5.44, 5.25, 5.15 and 1.070, respectively. Exactly where I wanted them. Similarly, the stout is 5.55 and 5.24 (don't have post boil data yet).

The most interesting thing I've learned in the last two weeks is that my water is not pH 7, or anywhere near it, out of the tap. I runs between 5.2 and 5.9. This likely explains why the EZWaterCalc always predicted much higher mash pH than I was getting. I now check the pH of the strike and sparge water and set to pH 5.4 - 5.8. This is easily accomplished by the addtion of 1 to 1.5 gm NaHCO3 per 5 gallons of water. Controlling the water pH from the get so seems to set the stage for everything to go right downstream.

 

[user 131481]

Just completed batch #60 since my enlightenment (read that, discovering this forum and this thread!). The numbers are dialing in very nicely. The Strong Blond had a mash pH, pre-boil pH, post-boil pH and OG at 5.44, 5.25, 5.15 and 1.070, respectively. Exactly where I wanted them. Similarly, the stout is 5.55 and 5.24 (don't have post boil data yet).

The most interesting thing I've learned in the last two weeks is that my water is not pH 7, or anywhere near it, out of the tap. I runs between 5.2 and 5.9. This likely explains why the EZWaterCalc always predicted much higher mash pH than I was getting. I now check the pH of the strike and sparge water and set to pH 5.4 - 5.8. This is easily accomplished by the addtion of 1 to 1.5 gm NaHCO3 per 5 gallons of water. Controlling the water pH from the get so seems to set the stage for everything to go right downstream.

I'm glad you wrote this... I've been using distilled water for my last three batches and had a hard time getting the ph to be inline with the recommendation here. Instead of going with aciduated malt, I've had to add a small amount of baking soda. Just an 1/8th tspn (.6 g) for 10 gal treated water. I'm using ph papers (I know I need a digital meter), waited for it to cool to room temp, and had mash readings of 4.6 before baking soda and 5.1 after. I'm wondering if this is to be expected (maybe carbonic acid??) or am I just a victim of ph paper inaccuracy??

 

[mabrungard]

I'm glad you wrote this... I've been using distilled water for my last three batches and had a hard time getting the ph to be inline with the recommendation here. Instead of going with aciduated malt, I've had to add a small amount of baking soda. Just an 1/8th tspn (.6 g) for 10 gal treated water. I'm using ph papers (I know I need a digital meter), waited for it to cool to room temp, and had mash readings of 4.6 before baking soda and 5.1 after. I'm wondering if this is to be expected (maybe carbonic acid??) or am I just a victim of ph paper inaccuracy??

Your observations may be accurate, but it depends on the grist. However, you should know the pH papers are notoriously inaccurate. The plastic strips are better, but there is that pH shift that you have to correct for.

That amount of baking soda is relatively small, so its probably fine. Do try to find a freshly calibrated pH meter to better assess what that pH is doing. Another option is to input your mashing and grist information into Bru'n Water to see what it predicts. Maybe that grist you mention above is quite acidic?

 

[variverrat]

Any suggestions on storage of ro/di water prior to brewing? Since it usually takes many hours to accumulate enough water to brew, my thoughts were to make it in either a plastic water barrel or possibly a stainless steel drum the night before then pump the quantity I need over to the HLT to make salt/acid additions. My concern is there is a lot of conflicting info on the Internet on what containers are safe for long-term DI water storage because of DI water potentially consuming metals or plastics, and with little info on what "long term" means. Any suggestions on how other brewers are dealing with this or are most people just buying it on-demand before brew day?

 

[kopper]

Any suggestions on storage of ro/di water prior to brewing? Since it usually takes many hours to accumulate enough water to brew, my thoughts were to make it in either a plastic water barrel or possibly a stainless steel drum the night before then pump the quantity I need over to the HLT to make salt/acid additions. My concern is there is a lot of conflicting info on the Internet on what containers are safe for long-term DI water storage because of DI water potentially consuming metals or plastics, and with little info on what "long term" means. Any suggestions on how other brewers are dealing with this or are most people just buying it on-demand before brew day?

The main purpose of my RODI system is for my saltwater fish tanks and in that hobby the gray food grade Brute trash cans are mostly considered safe. I have been using a 50'ish gallon one to store my RODI water for 5+ years with no issues that I am aware of. TDS readings are always zero using a Hanna meter. Just used RODI water for a brew for the first time this past weekend so my experience with it in regards to beer brewing is limited at this time. I know there are several other options that should work too so hopefully others will chime in too.

 

[variverrat]

Ah, that's good to know. I kept a saltwater reef for a while and know that reef people are pretty paranoid about their water quality, so if they don't have a problem with a big rubbermaid trash can, then I feel pretty good about storing it in at least a plastic water barrel for an extra day. Thanks for the info.

 

[ajdelange]

My RO system is all 'plastic'. It consists of an atmospheric tank, pressure tank and plumbing. There are no metallic parts. The tanks are filled by the actual RO unit automatically - when the level gets low in the atmospheric tank and when pressure gets low in the pressure tank. The only time the capacity of the system is approached is when I'm brewing. For lab/drinking water use it isn't even approached and so I'm sure some water sits in it for months. The water from the system did have a solvent taste at first from the cement used to join the plastic pipes but that passed through pretty quickly (and I didn't use water from the system for brewing until those tastes were long gone). I suppose there may be organics leaching from this plastic but they are well below taste threshold if there are. It is probably worth mentioning that all these components are designed for handling RO water. That's no guarantee that the water is totally free of organics but I'm sure some consideration has been given to that aspect of things.

 

[steve1202]

Wow, this thread and all the resultant comments have been a facsinating head trip for me. I'm trying to get a grip on this subject. Can anyone suggest some basic references for beginning to understand this complicated subject? Then perhaps the content of this thread will be easier for me. I live in a rural area with very clean tasting tap water that tastes better than many bottled waters I've tasted. So far in my brewing(I'm very inexperienced), I've done a hefeweizen and a stout(both AG)with my home water using only the often mention 5.2 additive. Both beers took second place in a local competition with bcjp rules. Basically, I've been using the "relax, don't worry..." concept so far with a few lucky results(or maybe the results weren't lucky. Maybe most of the beers were just bad, including mine!) I guess what I'm asking is if there is a path you all could suggest for my learning the rudiments of water chemistry so I can understand the contents of a thread like this? This is a naive sounding question to most of you, but we all have to start somewhere. Thanks.

Palmers "how to brew" has a section on water chemistry and mash ph that finally unlocked it for me. The online version has a excel spreadsheet and a simple sheet that really makes sense. The 5.2 additive has a lot of salt, so depending on your water chemistry, it may not be a good idea. Google EZ water calculator and you'll find the tool I use. The first step is this - get your water tested. Until you do, it's all just a big guess.

 

[ajdelange]

5.2 doesn't have any salt. What it does have is a lot of monobasic sodium phosphate (and a wee bit of dibasic). As such it does not have buffering capacity near 5.2 and will not bring mash pH to that value, unless phosphoric acid is added in which case why bother with the 5.2? Straight phosphoric acid doesn't put any sodium into the mash.

 

[Pratzie]

sub'd

 

[Grinder12000]

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

Would that include American IPAs?

 

[ajdelange]

That's really up to you to decide. If you are trying to emulate a beer with mineral quality then yes. If not, then no. You can brew a beer using the basic guidelines and then experiment with extra additions by adding them to the glass. If you do this and find that higher levels of gypsum and/or calcium chloride improve the beer then use more when you brew it next time. Keep in mind that these are guidelines. Experiment may determine that 1.5 times the calcium chloride and 3/4 the gypsum gives the result you like best. You have to keep trying different things.

 

[Dr. Francois]

I've been using the primer with grocery store Glacier RO water to great success.

Here's the issue I've been pondering:

I'm using a BIAB, full-volume mash system. Starting with 8 gallons of strike water gets me to a perfect finishing volume after the boil. I've been using 2 tsp CaCl (Pickle Crisp) to 8 gallons, and, like I said, I'm happy with the results. Still, I wonder if there is a way to get BETTER results.

Any thoughts on how the primer changes with a full-volume mash?

Given the changed ratio of water/grist, how should I modify my salt additions?

 

[ajdelange]

Still, I wonder if there is a way to get BETTER results.

Absolutely! It is essential that you understand that the Primer is meant to provide a starting point. It is intended that you experiment - a lot in order to find the combination of sulfate and chloride that tickles your fancy.

Any thoughts on how the primer changes with a full-volume mash?

It is 'designed' for normal water to grist ratios (1.3 - 2 qts/lb). I suppose you could take 1.5 as a sort of average and normalized based on deviations from that average if they are substantial.

 

[Dr. Francois]

It is 'designed' for normal water to grist ratios (1.3 - 2 qts/lb). I suppose you could take 1.5 as a sort of average and normalized based on deviations from that average if they are substantial.

I did some math, and in some of my heavier batches (like the porter I've been brewing over-and-over-and-over again to hone), my water/grist ratio is about 2qts/pound (14 pounds grain to 28 quarts of water).

My lighter beers (blonde ale, for instance) use 28qts/10 lbs, so the ratio is a bit less balanced in these beers.

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to post my research results regarding the German made ColorPhast pH Test Strips; purchased from the link in the water primer sticky.

With a test group of dark wort (Homebrew), light wort (Homebrew), finished beer (Home brew), finished beer (commercial), mash liquid (Nano brewery) and water (Tap, RO, and spring) I have come to the following results…empirical, quantifiable results.

ALL (Yeah, I know right?!?) test samples proved to react with the test strips EXACTLY THE SAME, in the exact same time frame even though the tests were conducted under varying temps, conditions, etc.

I purchased the broad range (0.0 to 14.0) and a narrow range (4.0 to 7.0) to test the group. Both ranges reacted the SAME way. Both strips were “dipped” and held in varying temps from 154 down to 37 degrees for 10 seconds. The color development on all samples and all types in all conditions was roughly two minutes.

Granted, I have a fairly keen eye for color so that “may” have played into it…IDK

My overall opinion: I love ‘em! Simple, effective, and accurate in varying conditions. And, for what we are doing as home brewers… an easy application that works well. The conditions that we [home brewers] will employ these strips in are way simpler than that of my research and test conditions. The plastic strips do not absorb liquid and the strips cool / warm / equilibrate almost immediately once placed in an ambient environment. No, I am not affiliated with any company or research group and I have NEVER used these strips before. I was after an alternative to the pH meters that was low maintenance, idiot “resistant,” and fairly inexpensive. The pH test strips deliver. I actually ordered the strips BEFORE I read all the info on actual meters so I was worried I just wasted $35 (after shipping). Not the case. These strips are useful and give me what I need….Easy, quick, accurate [enough for my applications] data used to make on the fly corrections.


Cheers,

-JM

 

[afr0byte]

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to post my research results regarding the German made ColorPhast pH Test Strips; purchased from the link in the water primer sticky.

With a test group of dark wort (Homebrew), light wort (Homebrew), finished beer (Home brew), finished beer (commercial), mash liquid (Nano brewery) and water (Tap, RO, and spring) I have come to the following results…empirical, quantifiable results.

ALL (Yeah, I know right?!?) test samples proved to react with the test strips EXACTLY THE SAME, in the exact same time frame even though the tests were conducted under varying temps, conditions, etc.

I purchased the broad range (0.0 to 14.0) and a narrow range (4.0 to 7.0) to test the group. Both ranges reacted the SAME way. Both strips were “dipped” and held in varying temps from 154 down to 37 degrees for 10 seconds. The color development on all samples and all types in all conditions was roughly two minutes.

Granted, I have a fairly keen eye for color so that “may” have played into it…IDK

My overall opinion: I love ‘em! Simple, effective, and accurate in varying conditions. And, for what we are doing as home brewers… an easy application that works well. The conditions that we [home brewers] will employ these strips in are way simpler than that of my research and test conditions. The plastic strips do not absorb liquid and the strips cool / warm / equilibrate almost immediately once placed in an ambient environment. No, I am not affiliated with any company or research group and I have NEVER used these strips before. I was after an alternative to the pH meters that was low maintenance, idiot “resistant,” and fairly inexpensive. The pH test strips deliver. I actually ordered the strips BEFORE I read all the info on actual meters so I was worried I just wasted $35 (after shipping). Not the case. These strips are useful and give me what I need….Easy, quick, accurate [enough for my applications] data used to make on the fly corrections.


Cheers,

-JM

Care to provide some of your data? For example, the pH you read at what temperature with what liquid?

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

Care to provide some of your data? For example, the pH you read at what temperature with what liquid?

Hehe... I knew someone would ask. It's all hand-written (I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination). I'd have to transpose all the data to a pretty little format for easy reading / study. But, it is Sunday... What else do I have to do other than drink beer, BBQ, go to Church and the like (Not necessarily in that order, mind you. HA!)... Lemme see what I can do.

Cheers,

-JM

 

[afr0byte]

Hehe... I knew someone would ask. It's all hand-written (I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination). I'd have to transpose all the data to a pretty little format for easy reading / study. But, it is Sunday... What else do I have to do other than drink beer, BBQ, go to Church and the like (Not necessarily in that order, mind you. HA!)... Lemme see what I can do.

Cheers,

-JM

Cool, if you get around to it it'd be appreciated.

 

[ajdelange]

It's all hand-written (I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination). I'd have to transpose all the data to a pretty little format for easy reading / study.

Nothing fancy required. Just a table

Sample ---- Meter_Reading ---- Strip_reading

would be plenty of information (not to say that scatter plots, averages, standared deviations etc are not of interest if you want to do more data massaging).

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

Nothing fancy required. Just a table

Sample ---- Meter_Reading ---- Strip_reading

would be plenty of information (not to say that scatter plots, averages, standared deviations etc are not of interest if you want to do more data massaging).

Hehe... I know you’re a REAL scientist! After reading all your posts n' such I don't want to "look the fool" especially being the new guy n’ all… But, for the sake of science, understanding and simply presenting more data for folks to gander at in order to determine if strips are a good choice for their application I've thrown something together for the masses. Now, please know that I do NOT own a pH METER. I started this experiment to determine if the strips were of any use for the price (I am a science-y cook so I can always use the strips in the kitchen) but I wanted to know so I did the experiment. Please be gentle... I'm fragile. This is in NO WAY meant to prove or disprove any theories or factual evidence that I have yet to discover here on HBT. I just wanted to do this for my OWN knowledge but being this community is so awesome and open about brewing I wanted to contribute. So, without further ado……

(Attached as a .pdf for ease of viewing)

View attachment pH_Test_Results.pdf

 

[Biere_Titan]

I’m doing 5 gallon partial boils with Extracts. I’m mostly doing American Pale & Amber Ales. My brews are turning out fine for the most part but I have a couple of questions about water, hoping I can make a good thing even better. We’re on well water and I always bypass the water softener when I brew. Here are the results from the water test conducted when we bought our house several years ago:

mg/L
Iron 0.184
Magnesium <0.01
Sodium 23.8
Chloride 76.0
Hardness 6.0
Nitrate 1.1
pH 7.28
Sulfate 31.2

There&#8217;s no mention of calcium or carbonate in the report.

So what does this tell me? Should I be adding Gypsum or Epson salts to my brews? Or is any sort of water treatment unnecessary since I&#8217;m using extract? What about if I move to partial mash or BIAB? Thanks.

 

[ajdelange]

First observation is that your iron is over the brewers desired upper limit of 0.10 mg/L. Try aerating your water and then filtering through clean playsand. If it turns brown then you've pulled out iron. If this method doesn't work then more dramatic means will be necessary such as an iron removal unit for your house (might be desirable anyway).

There is no info on carbonate in your water but there is on calcium. Given that the magnesium is so low the calcium is approximately 20*6/50 =2.4 mg/L i.e. practically none. Your reported anion concentration exceeds your reported cation concentration. Therefore you alkalinity would have to be negative in order to achieve electrical balance. This casts suspicion on the report. Best thing would probably be to send a sample off to Ward Labs and come back here when you get the report.

 

[ajdelange]

My overall opinion: I love ‘em! Simple, effective, and accurate in varying conditions.

The only problem I have is with the 'accurate' assessment. Without comparison to measurements taken with a meter you really have no idea as to whether they are more or less accurate than any other pH test strips. None of the numbers you posted are inconsistent with the things you measured but you really shouldn't imply that these are more accurate than others without verifying that they are. Trying to be gentle here. I hope it reads that way.

 

[ManhattanProjectBrewing]

The only problem I have is with the 'accurate' assessment. Without comparison to measurements taken with a meter you really have no idea as to whether they are more or less accurate than any other pH test strips. None of the numbers you posted are inconsistent with the things you measured but you really shouldn't imply that these are more accurate than others without verifying that they are. Trying to be gentle here. I hope it reads that way.

Ha! Yeah, that's gentle enough.... Seriously, I'm just in awe of all this knowledge. I work with a myriad of scientist-PHD-Muckety-mucks so trying to convince anyone with REAL knowledge of ANYthing is.. well, pointless. You are absolutely correct in the fact that the tests are not as solid as they could be because of the lack of controls (pH METER). Don't worry 'bout a thing AJ; I heal quickly... HA! Cheers and many thanks again; I truly appreciate it!

-JM

 

[Hermit]

I got some of the narrow range test strips only because I had a gift certificate. They are the narrow range. Complete waste. They do change to one color, sometimes, but never any other. I have a meter now.