$65 an hour? WTF?

Yakima 728
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Ubuntu is most certainly NOT easier to use than windows.

I am a huge linux advocate and have been using it and doing development on/for it since Slackware was first released, but there is no way I would recommend it over Windows or Mac OSX for ease-of-use.

They have made lots of progress but it's still not as good IMO.
 
Configuring settings, for one.

At least they have GUIs for most of that stuff now, but it still sucks compared to e.g. Control Panel settings.

Also a lot of it is in the vocabulary used to describe things in documentation. In general linux documentation is really nerdy and technical and a bit inscrutable. In general Windows documentation is speaking to the lowest common denominator. Of course sometimes it's flat-out wrong (ESPECIALLY API docs), but so is some linux documentation, too.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
1. Nope. I used Spybot for more than 3 years before switching to Ubuntu, and ever since in customers' computers. It gets rid of malware, worms, trojans, and any other kind of virus you throw at it. Ad aware is actually more focused on adware, but, just as Spybot, will deal with anything else, and both are very aggressive.

2. I didn't know the first thing about Ubuntu when I switched. In general terms, Ubuntu is much easier to use than Windows, and, for the few things that may be more challenging, there's a great forum at http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php.
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1. Not really debatable. They are both designed to remove spyware, nothing can replace a good AV program.

2. For someone who doesn't know much about computers? The OP stated in a previous post he would have a hard time reformatting, so I think that sums that up. Linux will always be useless for the mainstream user, especially since support is non existent, with the exception of some very unhelpful forums.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
What is it, exactly, that you find more difficult in Ubuntu than in Windows?
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Let your average person try to run their favorite program on linux, let me know how it works out.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
What is it, exactly, that you find more difficult in Ubuntu than in Windows?
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My computer is in the family room and anyone that wants to use it can just use it. When I installed Ubuntu it freaked everyone out and i spent too much time showing them how easy it was to use. I switched back to the more familiar Windows.
 
I'm not gonna turn this into another stupid endless debate. I stand behind my suggestions. I'm sure the OP is smart enough to decide by himself if he follows them or not.

I will say this:

amc:

1. I CHALLENGE YOU to find a single virus that can not be disinfected by either Spybot or Ad Aware, that one of your "good AV programs" can take care of.

2. What kind of experience in those "very unhelpful forums" you have? Are you a member of the forum I linked? I have posted questions on that forum, and have NEVER been let down. And, most of the times, I don't even need to ask the question. A quick search is enough to find the answer to just about everything.
 
For ~2 years now when people call me asking for help, I tell them to go download combofix, run it and if the problem persists, to bring the cmoputer in.

About 20 attempts, and I've only had one or two computers brought to me. I love that program.

Adaware versus Virus programs - The two functions are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but that doesn't mean that they're the same. Virus protection is typically much more active and agressive and about actual viruses, but doesn't care about things like browser toolbars and "helpers", whereas anti-spyware stuff typically goes the other route.
 
Know anything about "Sophos"?
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Sophos is an Anti-Virus and IT Security product that is geared more toward the corporate environment than the home user. However, if you have it installed, you might as well keep it.
Just about anything is better than the bloated pig that is Nortons and McAfee (AVG and Avast! are good freebie A/V programs).

Spybot and Ad-Aware are good FREE tools for cleaning your computer.
I would add Malwarebytes to the list.
All 3 are good at cleaning up leftover crap on your computer, and they will each find things the others missed.

And yeah, $65/hour is a bargain.
"Continuing Education" is an understatement when it comes to a career in the computer world.
If you are not constantly learning everything you can, you will quickly be unemployed.
 
the rar thing is because people like to put trojans/viruses all kinds of nasty business in them. But if you want to download rar's do it. I really don't care, it was just a warning.

It's not really a big deal if you know what your downloading or trust the source but if your not sure, i'd just as soon not do it.

I'd second the linux thing though. Ubuntu is one of the simpler ones. It's a gui, you just double click on something and it runs. It's even got a bunch of applications under right click. And installing things is a million times easier. Plus the no viruses thing ever is kinda nice.

Oh iaefebs, you could always try a dual boot.

Anyway it's just my 2 cents.
 
Sophos is pretty kick ass. If I could get it for a personal computer at a reasonable rate I would do it. We were evaluating Sophos vs. Symantec for our university when i worked for IT and by far Sophos was coming out ahead in all the tests except for the cost.

Sophos has some amazing heuristic abilities (being able to identify a virus based on known actions, only small fragments of code, ect instead of looking for an exact match) and was able to do it without impacting system speed.

If they gave you Sophos then you got a great deal.
 
I used to own a Custom A/V outfit. Charged $75 an hour, with a 1 hour min.

To wire DVD players and program remotes.

People were calling me left and right. It's been nearly 5 years since I closed shop and I still have people calling wanting me to install this and that. Point is, when you do the job right the first time, people are eager to give you their money so they don;t have to do the work.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
1. I CHALLENGE YOU to find a single virus that can not be disinfected by either Spybot or Ad Aware, that one of your "good AV programs" can take care of.

2. What kind of experience in those "very unhelpful forums" you have? Are you a member of the forum I linked? I have posted questions on that forum, and have NEVER been let down. And, most of the times, I don't even need to ask the question. A quick search is enough to find the answer to just about everything.
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1. Already explained.

2. Seems they are all like you, blindly suggesting linux to noobies. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes, the average pc user will be much better of sticking with windows and you know exactly why.
 
amc22 said:
1. Already explained.

2. Seems they are all like you, blindly suggesting linux to noobies. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes, the average pc user will be much better of sticking with windows and you know exactly why.
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1. So you're avoiding the subject.

2. Yep. More than a million members, a lot of them, like me, noobs, "blindly suggesting". But we're all wrong, and you're the only one that's right. Sure.
 
I've used Linux for years and I would never suggest it to anyone unless I was confident they were pretty computer savvy. Otherwise as the suggester you are on the hook for getting all their windows programs to emulate in WINE or to find alternatives or to track down their missing dependencies.

I'm a PC user but I would definitely suggest Apples to all my non-tech savvy friends. The year before last I worked for an IT Helpdesk for a university. We got a lot of staff and student computers infected with those "fake anti-virus" infections. Spybot/adaware did jack crap to fix those. The only effective program at the time was Malware Bytes Anti malware program.

IMO there is no perfect AV out there right now. They are either too protective and junk up the computer/slow it down/overprotect, or they do next to nothing.

That being said, the best balance I've found right now is Nod32 because I can't afford Sophos.
 
Noobs can use Linux if they are clever noobs. People with common sense, good problem solving skills, ect... like people who can usually pick up something new and get familiar pretty quickly. This is why some people say "I'm not computer savvy but I learned how to use Linux and it was really easy". This is not because Linux is really particularlly easy (although it is a lot simpler now) its mostly because they are smart people who are able to learn.
This can't be said for the majority of the computer using population who dumber than rocks and have to have somebody hold their hand if somebody moves their icon from one side of the screen to the other. Or who freek out because the login screen is a different color, or who think the world is ending when ANY message pops up on their screen.
 
I am in the PC field and am quite familiar with them. I still take my PC's to by buddy when my wife hoses it up on FB or myspace, but I installed Ubuntu last year. Granted, I didn't spend a lot of time messing with it, but yes, to a general PC user, it's not something they want to deal with. They want to turn the machine on and go. Windows is what they know and what they should stick with. The fact that you have to read up and learn how to install programs instead of just clicking an executable and clicking NEXT NEXT NEXT, (which can be a feat in itself for some) means the average PC user isn;t going to want to deal with it.
 
I am pretty computer savvy. Ran Linux a few years ago. It was workable, but just kind of a pain in the butt. Went back to windows. Maybe someday I'll try agian. I run a lot fewer programs, so it might be less trouble.

I think the diffrence is that I hate f'ing around and researching that stuff. I have better things to do with my time. Other people enjoy it.
 
I keep trying various flavors of Linux and they still don't have it ready for most people. It's gotten MUCH better for installing and running. However, there is still the problem with people wanting to run software. A LOT of software is made only for windows, and getting it to run on Linux is not something the average user (I'm talking about the people who call with computer problems) is going to be able to do.

If they were that good, they'd already know not to click on that link that just caused them to call me to fix it for them.

If they only want to do the basics, like read emails, surf the web, etc. then Linux is a very nice option. If they want to buy accessories and install the software that their friends are using, then Linux is probably not for them.

If everyone who wrote software for Linux would document properly, and write installation guides for the average person, it could be much more popular.
 
knotquiteawake said:
I've used Linux for years and I would never suggest it to anyone unless I was confident they were pretty computer savvy. Otherwise as the suggester you are on the hook for getting all their windows programs to emulate in WINE or to find alternatives or to track down their missing dependencies.
Click to expand...

If you look at my original suggestion, you'll see I specifically suggested to use Ubuntu if they don't need the Windows compatibility. True, Wine is a PITA, but even when I started using Ubuntu as a dual boot, for fear of not being able to run Windows programs, I soon discovered I didn't need them at all. And, for the ONLY Windows program I need (Solidworks) I have a second PC, just because my laptop hard drive is not big enough to dual boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu.

About your second post, I can put myself as an example: I'm definitely NOT as clever as you may think, yet, if you go to the Ubuntu forum, you will see, in the year and a half I've been a member, I only started 16 threads, and several of them had nothing to do with Ubuntu itself.

IrregularPulse said:
The fact that you have to read up and learn how to install programs instead of just clicking an executable and clicking NEXT NEXT NEXT, (which can be a feat in itself for some) means the average PC user isn;t going to want to deal with it.
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Now you really lost me. What version of Ubuntu do you have?:confused:
I'm asking you this because I started with 9.10, and now have 10.04. I have installed many programs in both, and never had to do anything other than to look for the program in the software center, and click "Install", period. Very few times I have had any problems with them at all, and, when I did, it generally took me less than 5 minutes to read up the forum, and fit it.

RDWHAHB said:
I am pretty computer savvy. Ran Linux a few years ago. It was workable, but just kind of a pain in the butt. Went back to windows. Maybe someday I'll try agian.
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I'm really not computer savvy at all, when it comes to software (with the exception of viruses, that have been my obsession for almost 2 decades). Try Ubuntu 10.04. I have compared it to Windows (7. to the previous Windows versions there's just no comparison at all), and had other people compare them too. Everybody loves it.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra said:
I'm really not computer savvy at all, when it comes to software (with the exception of viruses, that have been my obsession for almost 2 decades). Try Ubuntu 10.04. I have compared it to Windows (7. to the previous Windows versions there's just no comparison at all), and had other people compare them too. Everybody loves it.
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Same sort of reasoning I heard last time I tried it. Not sure what version it was.
 
Inodoro_Pereyra, I think maybe you have just been blessed in life to not have to of supported any truly computer illiterate people. I think Linux is easy to use, but when basic windows operations truly confound people then I've got to stop and think before I could recommend something that they can't just bring to any computer shop or apple store to fix.
 
when i repair some ones PC, i almost use the i will back up your data and wipe, because it's cheaper for them to have me do it that way. I can pretty much backup and reinstall in about in hour for most home users. Most of the time with new malware you are not going to get it all meaning it will come back.
 
I use linux on my eeepc because its a second generation eeepc so its a bit underpowered and linux is perfect for my web surfing low power needs. I think I currently have Eeeubuntu or something like that on it.
 
RDWHAHB said:
Same sort of reasoning I heard last time I tried it. Not sure what version it was.
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Let me put it this way: like I said, I have 2 PC's. A laptop I'm using now, and a fairly old desktop with Windows 7 and Ubuntu on dual boot, that I have exclusively for Solidworks.
The desktop has a wireless card. When I installed Windows 7, of course, it didn't recognize the wireless. So I plugged in a wireless adapter. The moment I plugged it in, Windows started to look for the driver (one of the few things I do love about Windows 7), yet a moment later I got a message telling me it couldn't find it, so I had to get the CD, and install the driver from it. Then I could get online to look for my wireless card driver, and install it.
As a contrast, Ubuntu automatically recognized the wireless adapter in both machines, no driver needed. But later on, one day I was having problems with my wireless adapter on a customer's computer, so I turned off the wireless of my laptop, and hooked up the adapter to it, hoping the driver I have would work on Ubuntu. There was no need. The moment I plugged it in, I was connected.

knotquiteawake said:
Inodoro_Pereyra, I think maybe you have just been blessed in life to not have to of supported any truly computer illiterate people.
Click to expand...

Oh...you should get to know my neighbour... She freaks out every time she gets the windows update pop up screen...:D:D
Anyway, the OP doesn't strike me as completely computer illiterate...
 
I appreciate all the advice guys.

Maybe next time I wont have to take my computer to someone else...and if I do, I wont ***** about $65 an hour
 
o4_srt said:
This. The only way I pay someone to do work for me is if it is cheaper for me to do so.
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I agree with this. If you read my post you will come to the conclusion that it is cheaper for me to hire out most service related tasks (plumbing, housecleaning, lawn treatment, car service) because the opportunity cost of my time is relatively high. I was answering the question "why would anybody pay someone to fix something" not the question "why doesn't everybody pay someone to fix something".
 
I think everyone should read this thread again replacing instances of the word "Computer" with "Hooker"

It will all make a lot more sense that way, and give a better idea of how the quality versus cost concept works. Especially if you think you may have a virus or prefer to do it yourself for free.
 
remilard said:
I agree with this. If you read my post you will come to the conclusion that it is cheaper for me to hire out most service related tasks (plumbing, housecleaning, lawn treatment, car service) because the opportunity cost of my time is relatively high. I was answering the question "why would anybody pay someone to fix something" not the question "why doesn't everybody pay someone to fix something".
Click to expand...

someone has spent some time in an econ class at some point in their life :drunk:
 
remilard said:
I agree with this. If you read my post you will come to the conclusion that it is cheaper for me to hire out most service related tasks (plumbing, housecleaning, lawn treatment, car service) because the opportunity cost of my time is relatively high. I was answering the question "why would anybody pay someone to fix something" not the question "why doesn't everybody pay someone to fix something".
Click to expand...

o4_srt said:
someone has spent some time in an econ class at some point in their life :drunk:
Click to expand...

Maybe that's why their opportunity costs are so high :D
 

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