Roundhouse
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I wouldn't be surprised if that warps under pressure when recirculating and just pops right up out of there. Watch out for that. Hopefully it doesn't happen.
55 gal, 16500 watt RIMS/Braumeister-ish Brewery Build
- Thread starter jcmcdowell
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jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
Not problems really- my little chugger just wouldn't pump after a certain point. So I guess adding the perf plate restrictions killed added to much resistance. I ordered the next size up pump- 1/8hp and we'll see about that pump.
I have a 3 phase 1.5hp pump that is completely massive overkill that I could use but would need another 3 phase SSR to install and some re-wiring but that's an option.
The Brew-boss seems to work fine. My Dallas temp probe doesn't work with the brew boss and I'll have to see if I can get that resolved.
I completely suck at TIG welding stainless. I think I'm going hire the pro from here on out to do anything tank/liquid related. I just spent 8 hours trying to fix a leaking tangential inlet and ended up cutting it off/trying to weld a plate over the hole/cutting that plate off and finally quitting because it's just butt ugly and I'm pretty sure it won't be water tight.
I have more parts on the way for the brite tank and the fermenters. I was hoping for a test SMASH this weekend but it doesn't look good.
Part of the fun of re-purposing equipment and the DIY venture is you have to adapt custom make so many things that are either not available or will take too long or too expensive to order.
I had to cut and weld a 1" tube; 1.5" tri clover 90 degree elbow onto a 2.5" tri clover plate cut off the pressure valve that was on the brite tank when I got it because I couldn't find a 2.5" tri clover 90 to 1.5". Now I have to weld a cleaning ball to the bottom of the 2.5" tri clover for CIP in the tank.
I have so many boxes of parts for so many projects here I'm not really sure what I have and don't have on hand. I may take a day (waiting on the welder) and organize my project stock while I have the chance.
I'm hoping for a Grand Opening December 1st- so I'm running out of time before I NEED to start brewing. The building is near punch items, so I can spend more time on the equipment.
Ughh- At least I have three other 55 gal Stainless drums I can make into a traditional 3 vessel if needed. I better be thinking about that just in case.
I have a 3 phase 1.5hp pump that is completely massive overkill that I could use but would need another 3 phase SSR to install and some re-wiring but that's an option.
The Brew-boss seems to work fine. My Dallas temp probe doesn't work with the brew boss and I'll have to see if I can get that resolved.
I completely suck at TIG welding stainless. I think I'm going hire the pro from here on out to do anything tank/liquid related. I just spent 8 hours trying to fix a leaking tangential inlet and ended up cutting it off/trying to weld a plate over the hole/cutting that plate off and finally quitting because it's just butt ugly and I'm pretty sure it won't be water tight.
I have more parts on the way for the brite tank and the fermenters. I was hoping for a test SMASH this weekend but it doesn't look good.
Part of the fun of re-purposing equipment and the DIY venture is you have to adapt custom make so many things that are either not available or will take too long or too expensive to order.
I had to cut and weld a 1" tube; 1.5" tri clover 90 degree elbow onto a 2.5" tri clover plate cut off the pressure valve that was on the brite tank when I got it because I couldn't find a 2.5" tri clover 90 to 1.5". Now I have to weld a cleaning ball to the bottom of the 2.5" tri clover for CIP in the tank.
I have so many boxes of parts for so many projects here I'm not really sure what I have and don't have on hand. I may take a day (waiting on the welder) and organize my project stock while I have the chance.
I'm hoping for a Grand Opening December 1st- so I'm running out of time before I NEED to start brewing. The building is near punch items, so I can spend more time on the equipment.
Ughh- At least I have three other 55 gal Stainless drums I can make into a traditional 3 vessel if needed. I better be thinking about that just in case.
jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
A few things I noted.
The pump needs to be pretty strong. You need to get the liquid up into the grain vessel in and back into the boil kettle before it's really had too much of a chance to drop temp. I plan on 3/4" sheet insulation to hold the temp but a faster pump will also help.
The stronger the pump the better chance of actually creating a whirlpool with a tangential inlet (man what a pain).
A TEFC pump would be nice because water is bound to leak onto the pump.
More soon...
JC
The pump needs to be pretty strong. You need to get the liquid up into the grain vessel in and back into the boil kettle before it's really had too much of a chance to drop temp. I plan on 3/4" sheet insulation to hold the temp but a faster pump will also help.
The stronger the pump the better chance of actually creating a whirlpool with a tangential inlet (man what a pain).
A TEFC pump would be nice because water is bound to leak onto the pump.
More soon...
JC
jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
Stainless moves like a *****. I'll put some small C clamps on it just in case. That would've been a much easier direction anyways.
A square tank would be SOOO much easier for this application. I could weld a angle inside to hold the perf and then weld a stiffener on the perf and hinge the filter.
jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
Today the HVAC tech started to hook the walk in cooler evaporator and condenser. The plumber has all the fixtures hooked up and needs to finish up the vent stack next week. I should have a working walk-in cooler tomorrow afternoon.
Now I can punch out the tasting room and work my way around to the brewery.
JC
Now I can punch out the tasting room and work my way around to the brewery.
JC
jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
OK- I have about 4 brews under my belt on the new system now. The first was a 45 gal batch and the other three I double brewed to achieve between 63gal up to 70ish gallons.
One big problem- I can't really fit enough grain in the 30 gal grain vessel to brew much more than 30 ish gallons of a 5.5% ABV beer.
I'm having a real problem with grain carrying over into the boil kettle. Even after reducing the grain volume, I'm still getting a TON of grain particles in the boil kettle. I resorted to using a 5 gal paint strainer- but by the end of the mash it's pretty clogged up. I even changed my mill settings with little change.
My wort is not clear at all. I think I'm getting some serious channeling on the up-pumping. My efficiency is MUCH MUCH lower than my previous results have been on the keg system. Something in the order of 60-ish % maybe efficiency.
There's a problem with the flow rate and keeping the temps stable using the BK as a RIMS. I need to move the liquid through the grain vessel fast enough to recirculate the entire volume to keep temps up- BUT too fast a flow results in stuck mashes.
I'm planning on re-working the system to a more traditional 2 vessel design. I'm going to replace the 30gal grain vessel with a 55gal mash tun. I'm planning on a copper manifold with slits for the drain in the mash tun. I can build that locally without having to order it for $$.
I have a 120 gal tank and a 200 steam kettle I can use as well, but I would prefer to work out the details on the 55 gal size first. (and get some beer made)
I think I have the parts around to build a RIMS system on the mash tun with a 5500w heating element.
The brew-boss controller works great but it won't control two heat sources or two temp sensors. I may try to put a double throw double toggle switch on the panel to switch the brew-boss from monitoring the boil kettle to monitoring and controlling the heating element on the mash tun for recirculating.
I think with this design a much smaller pump would work fine. I have a 220v chugger and a bigger march pump that should be fine.
I could accept mid 70's efficiency but unfortunately I don't have the room in the grain vessel to increase my grain bill. I've been boosting the fermentables in the fermenter to get my final ABV where I want it for the beer.
Another fun problem. I found out my propane tank valves freeze up outside in cold weather when running the tankless water heater. I may have to upsize the whole propane system to eliminate this problem.
We had a week long FREEZE here with temp below zero. I had to tent the bottom of the fermenters with foil insulation and install a little electric heater under it to keep the wort temps in the yeasts active temp range. It's worked! My FV1 'suddenly' dropped in temp from 17C to 5C. I'll take a hydrometer reading, I think the fermentation is complete and the exothermic reaction has stopped.
I had several beer-ruptions as I'm learning how to deal with wort transfers of that much volume. I think I need to add a bulkhead to the top of each fermenter so I can connect the transfer hose from the boil kettle.
I've been recirculating through the heat exchanger back into the boil kettle to get the temps down to the 70-80 degree range before transferring to the fermenter. In the fermenter, I have been recirculating and aerating (by splashing) while I double brew to get the wort to pitching temp. It works but when the hose falls out of the top of the fermenter with sticky wort splashing around, it's not fun.
I have a SPOX aerating setup but no Oxygen tank right now. I think the splashing/aerating/recirculating/chilling method works and saves time if double batching.
Otherwise, the fermenters with the DIY 70qt AC chillers and STC controllers are working great. My repurposed 150 gal pressure vessel is cleaned and holding pressure. I still have to assemble the regulators on the tap wall and I'm ready to start carbonating the first few batches and see if we have anything drinkable.
One big problem- I can't really fit enough grain in the 30 gal grain vessel to brew much more than 30 ish gallons of a 5.5% ABV beer.
I'm having a real problem with grain carrying over into the boil kettle. Even after reducing the grain volume, I'm still getting a TON of grain particles in the boil kettle. I resorted to using a 5 gal paint strainer- but by the end of the mash it's pretty clogged up. I even changed my mill settings with little change.
My wort is not clear at all. I think I'm getting some serious channeling on the up-pumping. My efficiency is MUCH MUCH lower than my previous results have been on the keg system. Something in the order of 60-ish % maybe efficiency.
There's a problem with the flow rate and keeping the temps stable using the BK as a RIMS. I need to move the liquid through the grain vessel fast enough to recirculate the entire volume to keep temps up- BUT too fast a flow results in stuck mashes.
I'm planning on re-working the system to a more traditional 2 vessel design. I'm going to replace the 30gal grain vessel with a 55gal mash tun. I'm planning on a copper manifold with slits for the drain in the mash tun. I can build that locally without having to order it for $$.
I have a 120 gal tank and a 200 steam kettle I can use as well, but I would prefer to work out the details on the 55 gal size first. (and get some beer made)
I think I have the parts around to build a RIMS system on the mash tun with a 5500w heating element.
The brew-boss controller works great but it won't control two heat sources or two temp sensors. I may try to put a double throw double toggle switch on the panel to switch the brew-boss from monitoring the boil kettle to monitoring and controlling the heating element on the mash tun for recirculating.
I think with this design a much smaller pump would work fine. I have a 220v chugger and a bigger march pump that should be fine.
I could accept mid 70's efficiency but unfortunately I don't have the room in the grain vessel to increase my grain bill. I've been boosting the fermentables in the fermenter to get my final ABV where I want it for the beer.
Another fun problem. I found out my propane tank valves freeze up outside in cold weather when running the tankless water heater. I may have to upsize the whole propane system to eliminate this problem.
We had a week long FREEZE here with temp below zero. I had to tent the bottom of the fermenters with foil insulation and install a little electric heater under it to keep the wort temps in the yeasts active temp range. It's worked! My FV1 'suddenly' dropped in temp from 17C to 5C. I'll take a hydrometer reading, I think the fermentation is complete and the exothermic reaction has stopped.
I had several beer-ruptions as I'm learning how to deal with wort transfers of that much volume. I think I need to add a bulkhead to the top of each fermenter so I can connect the transfer hose from the boil kettle.
I've been recirculating through the heat exchanger back into the boil kettle to get the temps down to the 70-80 degree range before transferring to the fermenter. In the fermenter, I have been recirculating and aerating (by splashing) while I double brew to get the wort to pitching temp. It works but when the hose falls out of the top of the fermenter with sticky wort splashing around, it's not fun.
I have a SPOX aerating setup but no Oxygen tank right now. I think the splashing/aerating/recirculating/chilling method works and saves time if double batching.
Otherwise, the fermenters with the DIY 70qt AC chillers and STC controllers are working great. My repurposed 150 gal pressure vessel is cleaned and holding pressure. I still have to assemble the regulators on the tap wall and I'm ready to start carbonating the first few batches and see if we have anything drinkable.
jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
Well my attempt to emulate a BIAB brew system turned into a 2 vessel RIMS system.
That being said- I'm hitting about 82% efficiency and I'm able to hold temps spot on for the mash cycle. Today things are getting a lot smoother and I may be able to finish two batches in less than 8 hours (ugh- a few 4:30am nights lately).
I'm putting 40 gallons in the fermenter per batch now for a total of 80 gallons. That gives me just about 5 kegs filled.
I'm using a "isobaric carbonation" method which is working out incredible in about 3 hours for the 80 gallons and hitting the carb levels spot on. It's not too easy for a home brewer at 5 gallons but works well at my level.
we have a Facebook page at:
Bandit Brewing Co.
if anyone wants to follow along. There are picts of the chiller setup and the brew system. Let me know and I can post more photos of any of the equipment you are interested in seeing.
We opened BLACK FRIDAY and had a nice crowd that night and I felt good about the weekend traffic considering we did virtually NO marketing except putting up a few flyers in our town of 733 people.
This week we start marketing as the ski traffic will pick up thru town. There's so many hats to wear.
JC
That being said- I'm hitting about 82% efficiency and I'm able to hold temps spot on for the mash cycle. Today things are getting a lot smoother and I may be able to finish two batches in less than 8 hours (ugh- a few 4:30am nights lately).
I'm putting 40 gallons in the fermenter per batch now for a total of 80 gallons. That gives me just about 5 kegs filled.
I'm using a "isobaric carbonation" method which is working out incredible in about 3 hours for the 80 gallons and hitting the carb levels spot on. It's not too easy for a home brewer at 5 gallons but works well at my level.
we have a Facebook page at:
Bandit Brewing Co.
if anyone wants to follow along. There are picts of the chiller setup and the brew system. Let me know and I can post more photos of any of the equipment you are interested in seeing.
We opened BLACK FRIDAY and had a nice crowd that night and I felt good about the weekend traffic considering we did virtually NO marketing except putting up a few flyers in our town of 733 people.
This week we start marketing as the ski traffic will pick up thru town. There's so many hats to wear.
JC
jcmcdowell
Well-Known Member
So I have a few minuted before we start the run off on beer #44 in 7 months open as a Nano Brewery in Montana.
So we are a tasting room only in Darby, MT population 733 people. We do not distribute, can, or bottle. All our beer is served on the tap. We serve 4 oz tasters, 12oz. draft, and fill 64 oz. growlers TO GO. We are limited to 48oz. on premises consumption per Montana State Law for tasting rooms (we don't have or need a liquor license).
Within 30 days after being open I realized we needed more kegs to condition the beer- we currently have 75 kegs and are doing fine. I'm in the process of building a semi-auto single head keg washer to free up some multi-tasking time in the brewery.
Within 60 days we started hiring part time help in the tasting room. It was too much work for my wife and I to keep up with both working the brewery and then working the tasting room.
By 90 Days, we hired a full time tap room manager- still currently our only employee. At this time we realized we probably couldn't keep up with production demands brewing 40 gallons/double batching 80 gallons into 4 fermenters for a 5 keg per beer production.
I started planning a new brew system and adding on to our existing 110 gal plastic induction fermenters to be ready by June 1.
We added 4 more fermenters and I built a new 2 vessel brewing system and we have brewed 9 brews on the new system, which is saving me about 5 hours per day!
I have a solid lead on a full time assistant brewer by November, which may mean I can actually leave the brewery at some point to see the light of day.
It is a TON of hard work, but we are debt free and sales are good. Our little Nano brewery will be able to support 3 families. We won't get rich, but it's a living wage and we get to drink the end product!
So we are a tasting room only in Darby, MT population 733 people. We do not distribute, can, or bottle. All our beer is served on the tap. We serve 4 oz tasters, 12oz. draft, and fill 64 oz. growlers TO GO. We are limited to 48oz. on premises consumption per Montana State Law for tasting rooms (we don't have or need a liquor license).
Within 30 days after being open I realized we needed more kegs to condition the beer- we currently have 75 kegs and are doing fine. I'm in the process of building a semi-auto single head keg washer to free up some multi-tasking time in the brewery.
Within 60 days we started hiring part time help in the tasting room. It was too much work for my wife and I to keep up with both working the brewery and then working the tasting room.
By 90 Days, we hired a full time tap room manager- still currently our only employee. At this time we realized we probably couldn't keep up with production demands brewing 40 gallons/double batching 80 gallons into 4 fermenters for a 5 keg per beer production.
I started planning a new brew system and adding on to our existing 110 gal plastic induction fermenters to be ready by June 1.
We added 4 more fermenters and I built a new 2 vessel brewing system and we have brewed 9 brews on the new system, which is saving me about 5 hours per day!
I have a solid lead on a full time assistant brewer by November, which may mean I can actually leave the brewery at some point to see the light of day.
It is a TON of hard work, but we are debt free and sales are good. Our little Nano brewery will be able to support 3 families. We won't get rich, but it's a living wage and we get to drink the end product!
Great thread! Please post pictures of your new brewing rig when you get it built!
Could you share some photos of your latest 2 vessel RIMS system ?
I'm building Kettle rims system
pls check your facebook page is not available anymore
Man, I started reading this and thinking "Holy crap, that's a massive rig for homebrew".
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