34/70 problem?

[DVCNick]

I don't do a lot of lagers, but when I do they are pressure fermented in the upper 60's.

My last two times using 34/70... Last time it finished at 1.005. this time at 1.001?

The calculator says I should be at 1.008. I fear I've really got 6% alcohol water this time.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks

 

[Sam_92]

What was your recipe? What was the starting gravity of this batch? Alcohol is lighter than water so it's possible for your hydrometer to read below 1.00 but you haven't created extra alcohol there's a correction factor that must be applied.

 

[marc1]

I don't do a lot of lagers, but when I do they are pressure fermented in the upper 60's.

My last two times using 34/70... Last time it finished at 1.005. this time at 1.001?

The calculator says I should be at 1.008. I fear I've really got 6% alcohol water this time.
Has anyone else experienced this?
Thanks

How are you measuring gravity? That seems too low, like there's a measurement error, or something else in there eating your wort besides 34/70. Unless you added glucoamylase?

 

[DVCNick]

Recipe: 9.2lb 2-row, .5lb vienna
Mashed at 148 for an hour
One hour boil
1.5 total oz Tettnager
OG: 1.046
Pitched at 60 and let free rise to 67 and 15psi
Cold crashed at 5 days
Kegged two days later
Sample flavor seemed fine, but hydrometer said 1.001.

Thanks.

 

[DVCNick]

I'm using a hydrometer with a correct sample temp for both measurements. No gluco was added.

 

[lablover]

Try fermenting it at 58 F. That's a great temp for 34/70 and turns out wonderful beers.

 

[JimRausch]

34/70 generally finishes with a greater attenuation than stated for me as well. However, the malty flavor and mouth feel I'm looking for in my Vienna , Marzen, and Bock lagers are still there. I do prefer WY2208 or 2306 in general, but have no problems with using a couple packets of 34/70 if I'm lazy, or the liquid yeasts aren't available. I ferment in a standard bucket at about 50 f.

 

[marc1]

Recipe: 9.2lb 2-row, .5lb vienna
Mashed at 148 for an hour
One hour boil
1.5 total oz Tettnager
OG: 1.046
Pitched at 60 and let free rise to 67 and 15psi
Cold crashed at 5 days
Kegged two days later
Sample flavor seemed fine, but hydrometer said 1.001.

Thanks.

If you check your hydrometer in water does it read 1.000?

If your hydrometer isn't off, then I think you may have some sort of contamination that is eating the complex sugars that 34/70 can't process.

 

[DVCNick]

This hydrometer has always been good for me in the past.

Unfortunately I guess it is a possibility that something is in there. I did the recipe exactly the same once before and it finished at 1.005, which is still more attenuation than it seems is expected but not quite as bone dry as this one seems to be...

 

[DVCNick]

I hadn't brewed for a while and there was some junk in the ball valve on my kettle that I had to clean out, but, I didn't take it apart or anything. I figured the boil should kill it, and I don't know that I've ever had a problem in the past, but maybe something survived. I guess it is time to figure out how to give that a thorough cleaning.

 

[marc1]

I hadn't brewed for a while and there was some junk in the ball valve on my kettle that I had to clean out, but, I didn't take it apart or anything. I figured the boil should kill it, and I don't know that I've ever had a problem in the past, but maybe something survived. I guess it is time to figure out how to give that a thorough cleaning.

Dirty kettle ball valves are a problem that comes up here every now and then. Shockingly, if they aren't disassembled and cleaned out, the gunk inside can survive the kettle boil and contaminate beer (the ball valve itself isn't boiled, and the biofilm inside is resilient).

I recommend taking the ball valve apart if possible for thorough cleaning.

 

[DVCNick]

This might not be the brightest idea, but I'm going to brew a "control" batch of a recipe I do all the time with S05 that finishes pretty much bang on 1.008 every time. If it drops into brut territory, it should still be a decent beer, and I'll know with absolute certainty that I have a problem.

 

[deuc224]

I just pressure fermented at 76 at 13 psi, wonder if ill get off flavors.

 

[micraftbeer]

Getting back to @marc1 's question, can you put your hydrometer in a pure water sample and see what it reads?

 

[DVCNick]

I just checked it again, and right now it is reading about 1.0005 (half a point high) in my soft tap water at calibration temp.

 

[DVCNick]

Just to close the loop here... my follow up batch of a different recipe finished at 1.007, only one point below "normal".

Also, yesterday at our homebrew club meeting I brought some of the lager, and a pro brewer and another very experienced homebrewer said they did not think there was an infection based on taste. They think it was just the warm fermentation that would have brought it so low.
Just a very motivated yeast packet I guess.

 

[Miraculix]

I fermented it warm many times, never got that low. There is something different going on there. Did you brew with belle saison previously?

 

[DVCNick]

No, I have not done a saison in years.
I guess the only thing to do is scrub out the ball valve and try again?

 

[renstyle]

I just pressure fermented at 76 at 13 psi, wonder if ill get off flavors.

Curious how this worked out for you.

I am fermenting a Bohemian Pilsner, currently at 21C/70F (free rise from 18C/64.4F) and I set the spund at 12-13PSI.
Started at 1.040, heading for an expected 1.007, now at 1.022 38 hours in.

Should be ready for a cold crash sometime next week.

Batch size was 18L into the fermenter, with one sachet of 34/70 pitched. I hit the wort with 2mins of O2 with a diffusion stone. Even at 12PSI, it's bubbling like crazy (I have a pressurized blow off bottle between the keg and the spunding valve)

 

[Bobby_M]

Mash a little warmer if you want to have a few dextrines left. The question about a diastaticus contamination is a pretty good lead too. One way to figure that out is to split off about 10% of your wort directly out of the kettle and ferment it in something that you've never used before.

 

[deuc224]

Curious how this worked out for you.

I am fermenting a Bohemian Pilsner, currently at 21C/70F (free rise from 18C/64.4F) and I set the spund at 12-13PSI.
Started at 1.040, heading for an expected 1.007, now at 1.022 38 hours in.

Should be ready for a cold crash sometime next week.

Batch size was 18L into the fermenter, with one sachet of 34/70 pitched. I hit the wort with 2mins of O2 with a diffusion stone. Even at 12PSI, it's bubbling like crazy (I have a pressurized blow off bottle between the keg and the spunding valve)

The temp was too high even though it was under pressure and the diamond yeast released a mega shyt ton of apple flavors. No lie it wasnt bad but not what i was going for. Tried another beer with 34/70 at 62F at 15psi and its very mellow but it did ferment out to 1.000 again. So I understand what the author of this thread is going thru. Brewfather is telling me something completely different from whats happening and brewfather is usually spot on. So either the pressure is having some affect on it or 62F on a lager yeast is pushing it hard, but no off flavors to report on this one.

 

[micraftbeer]

While I was doing research on pressure fermentation I got a suggestion from Wyeast on temperatures for fermenting under pressure. They suggested to start out at whatever the top recommended temperature range was, and ferment under pressure from there. It's obviously a very generalized recommendation, and surely depends on the yeast strain. Fermentis website says 53.6 - 64.4 F (obviously conversion from Celsius), so 62F would match that general recommendation. That said, when I've done split batch fermentation cold with no pressure vs. warm with pressure, I prefer the cold one.

I did a lager batch recently using Cellar Science Berlin lager yeast. The batch that I fermented at 55F at the start, without pressure, had attenuation of 72%. The batch I fermented at 62F at the start, and had on spunding at 14 psi had an attenuation of 79%. So one beer finished at 1.012 and the other at 1.009.